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  #81  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2018, 1:40 PM
YYCguys YYCguys is offline
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Rick Mercer says tear it down.

https://youtu.be/_Bty-SaHe9c
Former PM Joe Clark’s wife also said the same.

I’m a huge history buff and I value our country’s historical resources, but if the building is laden with asbestos, wouldn’t it be safer and less expensive to just build new homes for our government leaders?
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  #82  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2018, 5:31 PM
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Regardless of whether it's renovate or demolish, the process of handling the PM's residence needs to be depoliticized and handed off to a non-partisan entity, ideally the NCC. The key reason why it's in such a dilapidated state is because previous PMs were scared to renovate the space for the political consequence of "spending taxpayers money on my house".
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  #83  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2018, 6:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
Regardless of whether it's renovate or demolish, the process of handling the PM's residence needs to be depoliticized and handed off to a non-partisan entity, ideally the NCC. The key reason why it's in such a dilapidated state is because previous PMs were scared to renovate the space for the political consequence of "spending taxpayers money on my house".
The NCC has been responsible for decades, it hasn't worked out at all.
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  #84  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2018, 8:19 PM
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^ Ugh. I guess something even more depoliticized? Or maybe the other route... ann all-party committee, perhaps?
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  #85  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2018, 9:31 PM
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As a first step I think an all party committee needs to decide how it should be used. If it is just a private residence for the PM and their family (which is how it has been used by recent PMs) then maybe Rideau Cottage is a better location anyway. If their is all party consensus that the residence should take on official functions then that would help the NCC (or another organization such as GAC) scope out what is needed.
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  #86  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2018, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
As a first step I think an all party committee needs to decide how it should be used. If it is just a private residence for the PM and their family (which is how it has been used by recent PMs) then maybe Rideau Cottage is a better location anyway. If their is all party consensus that the residence should take on official functions then that would help the NCC (or another organization such as GAC) scope out what is needed.
This makes a lot (too much probably) of sense as an approach going forward.

While our symbolic cheapness can be ridiculous, and certainly is in this case, it is much preferable to most of the world where leaders spend lavishly and without overshigh on themselves and their supporters.
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  #87  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2018, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
As a first step I think an all party committee needs to decide how it should be used. If it is just a private residence for the PM and their family (which is how it has been used by recent PMs) then maybe Rideau Cottage is a better location anyway. If their is all party consensus that the residence should take on official functions then that would help the NCC (or another organization such as GAC) scope out what is needed.
Regardless of the location, we need to find a way to solve this government not wanting to spend on itself issue. If Rideau Cottage becomes the new official Prime Minister's residence, it could suffer the same fate as 24 Sussex even if it is considered part of Rideau Hall.
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  #88  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2018, 1:42 PM
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Regardless of the location, we need to find a way to solve this government not wanting to spend on itself issue. If Rideau Cottage becomes the new official Prime Minister's residence, it could suffer the same fate as 24 Sussex even if it is considered part of Rideau Hall.
That's true, although many of the 24 Sussex problems are one-time challenges related to the fact that it was basically rebuilt in the 1950s (the glory days of asbestos). Also, Rideau Cottage is much smaller.
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  #89  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2018, 7:23 PM
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That's true, although many of the 24 Sussex problems are one-time challenges related to the fact that it was basically rebuilt in the 1950s (the glory days of asbestos). Also, Rideau Cottage is much smaller.
And Rideau Cottage was just rennovated, and thus *should* get about 20-50 years.
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  #90  
Old Posted May 31, 2018, 11:41 AM
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24 Sussex is crumbling ... and now we have the details

Tom Spears, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: May 31, 2018




Memo to the Trudeau family: You’re smart to stay out of 24 Sussex Drive. Engineers say its walls might drop pieces of rock on those who live there.

Also, the walls have weakened enough to increase the chance of collapse in the event of an earthquake. Remember that day in 2010?

Overall, the outer structure of grey limestone walls is in “poor to fair” condition. Some bits are “very poor.”

The venerable building with the killer view of the river is a victim to time, but also to the original choice of poor-quality limestone for its walls, mortar that varied in quality, and sub-par workmanship decades ago.

In some places, the mortar never made contact with the stones it was meant to hold in place. Some interior gaps never had mortar at all, while mortar in other spots has crumbled away.

And some of the limestone blocks are now “disaggregated,” or cracking apart under forces that include repeated freeze-thaw cycles, like a road with potholes.

Walls are cracked in some places, bowed out sideways in others.

And when the new government owners did a major reno in 1950, they covered over old problems instead of fixing them.

Now a detailed report by Public Works and Procurement Canada provides a detailed look at the “exterior envelope and structure” of 24 Sussex for its owners, the National Capital Commission. Released through access to information, the report has repair cost estimates removed to avoid tipping off future bidders.

Overall, “the exterior walls are considered to be in poor to fair condition.”

Left untreated, it says, the accelerating deterioration of the prime minister’s official residence will cause “an eventual loss of the structural integrity of the wall(s).”

• Let’s start with those stone blocks. Most of the 1867 stones were quarried locally, a material called Gloucester limestone. But the report notes: “Gloucester limestone is known to be a poor quality building stone, and should not be used” in future work. (The material is used today for crushed stone.)

“A large quantity of the Gloucester limestone has become severely disaggregated with multi-directional cracking through the full body of the stone…

“The deterioration poses a health and safety threat to site occupants: fragments of the stones could easily dislodge and fall to the ground.”

The risk is greatest in spring thaw, as with potholes in roads, and is greatest on the home’s south and west sides “where site occupants can easily get close to the building walls.”

The walls aren’t likely to collapse, the report says, but the stones are so bad that if someone removes them to rebuild the wall, they are likely to “disintegrate.”

• Workmanship is a problem, too. The house was built in 1867, renovated and extended in 1909 and again in 1950.

“The workmanship of the 1950s and the earlier masonry work is not considered to be of particularly high quality,” the report says. For instance, they used mortar of varying qualities, “in some cases achieving little or no bond to the stone.”

And the 1950s workers left, in some cases, actual gaps between the stone and the mortar intended to hold it in place.

“The relatively poor workmanship of the 1950s masonry and mortar work will result in a reduced lifespan for the masonry walls.”

•”Significant cracking is evident at six locations on the building’s walls,” and the overall wall condition “varies from very poor to good.”

There is also bulging of the masonry on all four sides of the house.

Eight stone window lintels (the single stone pieces across the tops of windows) have fractured and seven stone sills have fractured.

• A lot of the masonry has crumbled away.

“Numerous open joints (between stones) were observed where all mortar has deteriorated and emptied: a mason’s slick could typically be inserted +/- 200 mm (millimetres) deep into the opening with no resistance.”

“The mortar joints at grade (ground level) are in very poor condition and are generally disintegrated and friable,” meaning they crumble when someone rubs or squeezes the material.

Even worse is the mortar below ground level, found to be “soft, easily removed by hand tools and reverting to sand.”

• Water is getting in and doing bad things, some of it caused by falling-apart gutters and downspouts that don’t drain away water. Moisture has corroded the steel ties that join the limestone to the cinder block wall behind it. And rusting steel lintels over windows are expanding, pushing against and cracking the masonry around windows.

For instance, steel lintels on the north side of the 1950s addition are corroded and this jacks up the wall above them. In addition, the limestone may no long be held in place because the steel ties behind it are corroded. No one can tell without opening up the wall.

If so, “this area of masonry may easily become unstable,” the report warns. It calls for more investigation.

And then there’s the earthquake risk. On paper it shouldn’t be too bad, the engineers say — but the reality is that since the outer limestone walls are no longer well connected to the supporting walls behind them they “may be vulnerable to out-of-plane collapse in an earthquake.”

(Out of plane means the sideways shaking of an earthquake makes a masonry wall bend sideways, and then collapse.)

• There’s some good news. The roof, rebuilt in 1998, is in good shape. So are the six-metre-tall chimneys.

But even with these, there’s a catch. Tall brick chimneys can snap off in earthquakes, and if the NCC decides to quake-proof 24 Sussex, it will have to dismantle the chimneys and rebuild them.

Jim Cowie, a Halifax engineer with experience in historic masonry buildings, says the damage can be fixed but it will be expensive.

He called the building “sadly neglected.”

“It can be fixed. It’s just a matter of putting dollars to it. Plus it’s heritage, and once it becomes heritage there are things you just can’t do,” which includes demolishing and rebuilding from scratch, he said. “No way would they tear this down.”

And he said the costs will rise if heritage rules require the new limestone, mortar and windows to have the same look as the originals.

He noted that the Public Works study still hasn’t examined the inner part of the walls behind the limestone, so there are still unknowns about how much needs to be fixed.

There is still no formal proposal to repair 24 Sussex.

A few weeks ago, the NCC’s CEO, Mark Kristmanson, told this newspaper: “We continue to work with the government on 24 Sussex Drive. I can’t really say very much about it except that I’m encouraged by some of the work our teams have been doing to arrive possible solutions to move the project forward, so we are looking forward to having an opportunity to share those.”

tspears@postmedia.com
twitter.com/TomSpears1

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...ve-the-details
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  #91  
Old Posted May 31, 2018, 1:04 PM
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Tear it down.
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  #92  
Old Posted May 31, 2018, 1:43 PM
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Just save whatever pieces can be (and are worth being) saved for the architects to dream up new or imaginative ways to incorporate into what is otherwise a completely new build, and turn the management of the official residences of the PM, Speaker and Opposition Leader over to the House of Commons, under the watch of the Board of Internal Economy.
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  #93  
Old Posted May 31, 2018, 1:47 PM
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Tear it down.
I agree. As discussed earlier in this thread, it isn't anywhere close to its original form so shouldn't be considered heritage.
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  #94  
Old Posted May 31, 2018, 8:15 PM
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How hard do you think it would be to put them in Laurier House? I recognise it would be a smaller property (which would make defense a little harder) and doesn't have the view, but it still has a cool history. Also, with the PM so close to the GG right now it seems like the PM is closer to the GG than Parliament.
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  #95  
Old Posted May 31, 2018, 9:11 PM
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Also, with the PM so close to the GG right now it seems like the PM is closer to the GG than Parliament.
That's no different that when the PM was on Sussex.
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  #96  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2018, 4:54 AM
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I think Earnscliffe would make a nicer PM's residence than Laurier House, plus it was Sir John A's former residence. The Brits can have the 24 Sussex site in exchange where they can be right beside the French
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  #97  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2018, 11:45 AM
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Here's how much it costs to run 24 Sussex Drive, even when the prime minister doesn't live there

Tom Spears, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: June 1, 2018




You might pass 24 Sussex Drive and say to yourself: “I wonder what it costs to keep that place running?”

So we found out — and it’s a bundle.

Some ordinary household bills for the official residence of the prime minister, the one that’s not been lived in since the 2015 federal election, were released by the National Capital Commission through an access-to-information request.

They show how the notoriously drafty old house sucks up energy — and money.

The total expenses for the period from November 2015 through March 2016 were $171,376 — for the building alone, not food or staffing. (The dates are approximate. Not all expenses were billed on the same schedule.)

Energy bills alone topped $50,000 for the first fall and winter that the Trudeau family chose not to live there.

Then there’s the pest-control company, quite a few odds and ends of repairs, and a special fence.

While the official residence has no full-time occupants, it does have official functions now and then.

Mark Kristmanson, the National Capital Commission’s CEO, noted in April: “In the meantime, you should be aware 24 Sussex is used. The staff of the PMO use it. The kitchen is used. It’s been decommissioned as a residence, but it continues to operate as part of our official residences portfolio.”

Let’s take Hydro first, because it’s the biggest bill.

In the five months from October through February, Hydro Ottawa billed the NCC $38,881 for electricity, including tax. The biggest monthly bill was naturally in winter — $10,232 from late January to late February.

More energy: Enbridge Gas billed $11,732 to heat 24 Sussex for five months (though the bills don’t specify whether the water heater is gas or electric.)

The water bill for the five months cost $885. When no one lives there, no one takes long showers.

They paid $425 in total for a series of monthly calls by a pest-control company. But the NCC called the company for one extra visit, to clean up mouse droppings in a basement washroom, for $550. (Visitors take note: The upstairs facilities appear to be mouse-free.)

After that, there’s a list of small-to-middling bills for maintenance that all owners of older homes will recognize. Someone installed a door and put non-skid coating on the stairs ($3,036 for the two jobs). A chimney cleaner did his thing (cheap at $150.) Generator maintenance was $785.

Thermostat repair: $253, on top of an electrical service call bill for a flat $1,000. Later, another $1,000 electrical “trouble-shooting” call, plus $1,290 to replace a defective breaker. Elevator maintenance: $2,280.

Vacuuming the drapes, because you can’t have dusty drapes on Sussex Drive: $491.

Someone was paid $1,500 to wash the windows and eavestroughs, even though Public Works says the eavestroughs aren’t working, and to do the age-old ritual of replacing screens with storm windows.

Carpet and furniture cleaning cost $6,680.

And the owners are keeping one Trudeau family tradition alive.

They installed a diving board for $5,695, so probably a pretty good one. It’s white. Weekly pool maintenance was another $4,500 though it’s unclear what period this covers. It was then-prime minister Pierre Trudeau who endured criticism over having a pool installed at the residence in the first place, four decades ago.

Meanwhile, there was more generator trouble. Three more repair bills to a generator totalled $14,980.

And a final nod to keeping up appearances: The NCC spent $21,250 to install a “rustic fence.”

tspears@postmedia.com
twitter.com/TomSpears1

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...snt-live-there
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  #98  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2018, 1:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketphish;8206821Let’s take Hydro first, because it’s the biggest bill.

In the five months from October through February, Hydro Ottawa billed the NCC $38,881 for electricity, including tax. [B
The biggest monthly bill was naturally in winter[/B] — $10,232 from late January to late February.

More energy: Enbridge Gas billed $11,732 to heat 24 Sussex for five months (though the bills don’t specify whether the water heater is gas or electric.)
If they have gas heat, why would electricity costs be "naturally" highest in the winter? Unless some of the other buildings have electric heat I guess. Given that they only covered the fall and winter months, I wonder what the bills are like in the summer when the A/C kicks in?
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  #99  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2018, 1:45 PM
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Let’s take Hydro first, because it’s the biggest bill.

In the five months from October through February, Hydro Ottawa billed the NCC $38,881 for electricity, including tax. The biggest monthly bill was naturally in winter — $10,232 from late January to late February.

More energy: Enbridge Gas billed $11,732 to heat 24 Sussex for five months (though the bills don’t specify whether the water heater is gas or electric.)
If they have gas heat, why would electricity costs be "naturally" highest in the winter? Unless some of the other buildings have electric heat I guess. Given that they only covered the fall and winter months, I wonder what the bills are like in the summer when the A/C kicks in?
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  #100  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2018, 1:57 PM
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How much occupation/use is 24 Sussex still experiencing? I know the kitchens are still used. I assume security is on site 24/7. Do the Trudeaus use the pool?
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