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  #5161  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2021, 5:48 PM
thewave46 thewave46 is offline
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
The discussion was in reference to this post about Porter buying 30 passenger jets from Embraer, which are not allowed to land at YTZ (and have enough range to reach Florida).
Ah. I didn't see that post.

Given that Porter is denying the purchase of jets officially, I've my doubts and stand by my previous commentary.

Antagonizing the big boys on their own turf is fraught with risk. Bombardier learned that the hard way.

I think Porter will remain a small-time carrier for the foreseeable future. Plenty of airlines have died because their ambitions overstepped reality.
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  #5162  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2021, 6:48 PM
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Originally Posted by thewave46 View Post
Ah. I didn't see that post.

Given that Porter is denying the purchase of jets officially, I've my doubts and stand by my previous commentary.
Fair.

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Originally Posted by thewave46 View Post
Antagonizing the big boys on their own turf is fraught with risk. Bombardier learned that the hard way.

I think Porter will remain a small-time carrier for the foreseeable future. Plenty of airlines have died because their ambitions overstepped reality.
While I agree, I still say that HFR could kill Porter's most profitable routes. With them effectively gone, they will need to backfill with other routes. Maybe YOW-SFB wouldn't be a good option, but finding other city pairs that the big boys won't be concerned about, but could fill a small plane.
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  #5163  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2021, 6:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
I am not arguing for more connecting flights. At least not directly. I am suggesting that if Ottawa becomes a less profitable market for Porter, they should redeploy those aircraft to markets that can get them more business. I think a lot of that may be on US routes around the Great Lakes.
I would argue that Porter's flights to both Otttawa and Montreal from Toronto would be desimated without origin-destination traffic. Without those feeder flights, it would be harder to sell flights to other US destations.
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  #5164  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2021, 10:46 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Today's departure count: 11 - including Flair departing at 2135 to YYC. It's been eons since there was a departure past 1900.
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  #5165  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2021, 2:42 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
I would argue that Porter's flights to both Otttawa and Montreal from Toronto would be desimated without origin-destination traffic. Without those feeder flights, it would be harder to sell flights to other US destations.
Debatable. First off, nobody is suggesting that Porter would completely abandon flights to Ottawa and Montreal. Maybe with HFR that cut YTZ-YOW by 50% and YTZ-YUL by 10-15%. Next, connecting passengers tend to be a bit less schedule sensitive. Don't need 12 flights a day to serve them. 6 works fine if it's connecting to just 3 flight to their destination anyway.

It's only HSR that would truly hurt Porter. They'd easily lose 60-70% of their OD demand on YTZ-YOW and probably 50-60% on YTZ-YUL. The cuts that would drive, might impact their ability to feed onward connections.

HFR isn't as existential to Porter. But it's going to see drops in demand that free up 3-4 frames used to serve YOW and YUL. They'll have to find somewhere to fly them. YTZ-Great Lakes cities is probably the most sensible.
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  #5166  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2021, 11:11 AM
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I'm sorry if anyone has touched on this but HFR is not much more than a fantasy at this point. Canada doesn't have the vision and foresight to build HSR, and can't even get the modest HFR off the ground either. If it does ever get built, it wouldn't launch for another 5-10 years, so I highly doubt airlines are thinking about this right now. And when it does launch, it will barely compete with the airlines anyway, and that might be the point.

Campaign donations/air line lobbyist vs fighting climate change. The political brass have made their choice by choosing to study HFR to death over HSR.
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  #5167  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2021, 1:31 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I'm sorry if anyone has touched on this but HFR is not much more than a fantasy at this point. Canada doesn't have the vision and foresight to build HSR, and can't even get the modest HFR off the ground either. If it does ever get built, it wouldn't launch for another 5-10 years, so I highly doubt airlines are thinking about this right now. And when it does launch, it will barely compete with the airlines anyway, and that might be the point.

Campaign donations/air line lobbyist vs fighting climate change. The political brass have made their choice by choosing to study HFR to death over HSR.
While HFR is far from a fait accompli, given that the government committed $500 million (far more than any of the HSR studies ever received) over 6 years in the 2021 Budget, I wouldn't call it a fantasy either.

I do agree that if it does happen, its affect on AC and WS will be minimal, and more indirect. I do think it would have a much bigger affect on PD though.
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  #5168  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2021, 1:56 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
The problem with direct flights is that there is nothing stopping AC, WS, WG or TS from dumping on the same route and bleeding Porter. And those airlines have been known to do that.
They could, but none of them dumped a pile of capacity on YOW-YHZ/YQM/YFC/YSJ when PD launched those. In the case of YSJ, nobody followed Porter. In the case of YQM, WS briefly flew it for one summer never to return and for YFC, AC upping from a DH1 to a DH3/CRJ is hardly a response and more a case of the DH1's retirement. As for YHZ, AC held steady with CR9s...they were about to introduce mainline again in summer 2020, WS used 1 of 3 daily as mainline in summer, but that was merely to feed the YHZ-Europe flights.

AC and WS are in a weakened position right now with smaller fleets...apparently WS have now decided to retire the 736 by the end of 2021.

I doubt they'll be putting much effort into defending YOW. About the only reason why YOW-YVR this summer has a 788 on it is a) the large reduction in their mainline fleet doesn't allow for as many frequencies, b) cargo demand is high and c) they have nowhere else to put them this summer. I'd be surprised if YOW-YVR sees a 788 in summer 2022.

However, at this point PD have denied a new aircraft order and have yet to sell anything beyond the usual routes on their website...assuming the mid-July re-launch does indeed happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Debatable. First off, nobody is suggesting that Porter would completely abandon flights to Ottawa and Montreal. Maybe with HFR that cut YTZ-YOW by 50% and YTZ-YUL by 10-15%. Next, connecting passengers tend to be a bit less schedule sensitive. Don't need 12 flights a day to serve them. 6 works fine if it's connecting to just 3 flight to their destination anyway.

It's only HSR that would truly hurt Porter. They'd easily lose 60-70% of their OD demand on YTZ-YOW and probably 50-60% on YTZ-YUL. The cuts that would drive, might impact their ability to feed onward connections.

HFR isn't as existential to Porter. But it's going to see drops in demand that free up 3-4 frames used to serve YOW and YUL. They'll have to find somewhere to fly them. YTZ-Great Lakes cities is probably the most sensible.
True that with HFR. Porter's biggest competition for the same-day biz traveller has now become Teams/Zoom, etc. Even HFR can't compete for same-day returns with Porter. One way Porter could maintain YOW-YTZ frequencies with fewer pax is to add more flights east (e.g., add YYG, YQY and YQB out of YOW), thereby creating thru pax.
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  #5169  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2021, 2:01 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Today's departure count: 9 - no Flair ops today.
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  #5170  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2021, 2:08 PM
TransitZilla TransitZilla is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
With Disney discontinuing their Magical Express service in 2022, MCO will loose a lot of its appeal
A bit off-topic, but that seems like a really dumb decision. It's a really great service as I recall.
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  #5171  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2021, 2:18 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Sector May-20 May-21 % Change
Dom: 8,386 / 21,599 / +157.6% - with Flair's arrival, I'd expect June numbers to almost double.
TB: 535 / 0 / -100.0%
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 8,921 / 21,599 / +142.1%

Sector / YTD 2020 / YTD 2021 / % Change
Dom: 752,871 / 117,426 / -84.4%
TB: 162,874 / 0 / -100.0%
Int'l: 168,382 / 0 / -100.0%
TTL: 1,084,127 / 117,426 / -89.2%

12 Months Rolling / % Change vs Year End 2019
Dom: 396,592 / -90.1%
TB: 219 / -100.0%
Int'l: 0 / -100.0%
TTL: 396,811 / -92.2% - the first time this has gone up since COVID-19 struck was 384k in April

The meaningful indicator these days
Month-Over-Month Change
Sector / Apr-21 / May-21 / % Change
Dom: 20,716 / 21,599 / +4.3%
TB: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 20,716 / 21,599 / +4.3%
Avg/Day: 691 / 697 / +0.9% - newly added stat to compare daily averages - for comparison, May 2019 was 14,209!
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  #5172  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2021, 6:07 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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For PD's July 22nd restart, they're showing just a typical summer sked. Here's YOW on weekdays over the summer:
YHZ: 5x
YQM: 2x
YFC: 1x
YSJ: 1x
YTZ: 14x - typical for summer whereas fall/winter/spring is typically 16x-18x depending on the month.
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  #5173  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2021, 11:00 PM
BenYOW BenYOW is offline
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Minister Alghabra, Minister McKenna, and Member of Parliament McGuinty are scheduled to make a funding announcement tomorrow morning (June 16) at Ottawa International Airport. Presumably, this is to announce funding for Airport Station through the Airport Critical Infrastructure Program?

Quote:
Media advisory
Ottawa, ONTARIO — The Minister of Transport, the Honourable Omar Alghabra, the Minister of Infrastructure and Communities, the Honourable Catherine McKenna, and the Member of Parliament for Ottawa South, the Honourable David McGuinty will hold a news conference to announce funding to support infrastructure at the Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport.

Minister Alghabra, Minister McKenna, and Member of Parliament McGuinty will be available to answer questions from the media following the announcement.

Date: June 16, 2021

Time: 9:30 a.m. ET
Location: Hybrid event
In person:
Ottawa MacDonald-Cartier International Airport
1000 Airport Parkway Private
Ottawa, ON K1V 9B4
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  #5174  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2021, 1:06 AM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Originally Posted by BenYOW View Post
Minister Alghabra, Minister McKenna, and Member of Parliament McGuinty are scheduled to make a funding announcement tomorrow morning (June 16) at Ottawa International Airport. Presumably, this is to announce funding for Airport Station through the Airport Critical Infrastructure Program?
Almost certainly.
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  #5175  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2021, 2:13 PM
BenYOW BenYOW is offline
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As posted by bradnixon in the Stage 2 LRT thread, the federal government announced $6.4M in funding for the construction of Airport Station through the Airport Critical Infrastructure Program. Also included in the announcement is $5.7M in operational funding through the Airport Relief Fund. To give an idea of the scale of YOW's financial challenges, the 2020 Annual Report stated that the Authority finished the year with a loss before depreciation of $19.5 million compared to earnings of $36.2 million in 2019.

News Release
Quote:
Helping airports mitigate the financial impact of the COVID-19 pandemic is part of the Government of Canada’s strategy to ensure that Canada’s air transportation system provides Canadians with choice, connectivity and affordable air travel. Canada’s world-leading network of airports has been put under substantial financial strain as a result of the dramatic decline in passenger travel resulting from the COVID-19 pandemic. Investments in airport infrastructure are crucial to maintain safety, security, and connectivity for travellers, airport workers and surrounding communities.

Today, the Minister of Transport, the Honourable Omar Alghabra, along with the Minister of Infrastructure and Communities, the Honourable Catherine McKenna, and the Member of Parliament for Ottawa South, the Honourable David McGuinty, announced new funding to help the Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport recover from the effects of the COVID-19 pandemic and to support continued air services and important transportation infrastructure projects at the airport.

The Government of Canada is providing the Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport Authority with $6.4 million from Transport Canada’s Airport Critical Infrastructure Program for the construction of a light rail transit (LRT) station at the airport. The government also remains committed to working with the Ottawa Airport to ensure this important project is seen through until completion.

The airport LRT station will be a three-story elevated structure connecting the airport terminal at the north end of Level 3 to the LRT station platform. The station will provide fully accessible connectivity for all users of the LRT who travel to and from the Ottawa Airport. Construction of the station is underway and is expected to be completed in summer 2022.

In addition to the funding for the LRT station, the Government of Canada is also providing the Airport Authority with $5,690,000 from Transport Canada’s Airport Relief Fund to help the airport maintain continued airport operations and essential air services for residents and workers in the National Capital Region and surrounding communities.
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  #5176  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2021, 2:20 PM
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Great news! It's about time.
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  #5177  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2021, 2:25 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Today's departure count: 12
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  #5178  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2021, 2:35 PM
TransitZilla TransitZilla is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenYOW View Post
As posted by bradnixon in the Stage 2 LRT thread, the federal government announced $6.4M in funding for the construction of Airport Station through the Airport Critical Infrastructure Program. Also included in the announcement is $5.7M in operational funding through the Airport Relief Fund. To give an idea of the scale of YOW's financial challenges, the 2020 Annual Report stated that the Authority finished the year with a loss before depreciation of $19.5 million compared to earnings of $36.2 million in 2019.

News Release
I guess this funding isn't technically for the station (which is being built already) but for the terminal expansion to link up to the station...?

Since they are getting about half the $ they were asking for ($6.4M vs $13M) I wonder if that will be downsized somewhat?
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  #5179  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2021, 8:53 PM
YOWhopeful YOWhopeful is offline
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So Lufthansa has tweeted that Eurowings is starting FRA-YHZ in June 2022.
Don’t I wish they made such an announcement for Ottawa
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  #5180  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2021, 10:03 PM
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Feds airdrop $6.4M for Ottawa airport's Trillium Line station, $5.7M for operations
The government also announced $5.7 million for the Ottawa airport through the Airport Relief Fund to help with operations.

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Publishing date: Jun 16, 2021 • 52 minutes ago • 1 minute read


The federal government has announced $6.4 million to help the Ottawa International Airport build a station for the Trillium Line spur, reducing fears that the city was building an expensive rail line to nowhere.

The station connected to the airport terminal will cost $16.9 million. The project is part of the city’s $4.6-billion Stage 2 O-Train expansion, with tracks for the Trillium Line being extended past Greenboro Station into Riverside South. The airport spur will connect to a new South Keys Station.

The airport authority became worried last year that it wouldn’t be able to pay for the new rail station as the COVID-19 pandemic drastically reduced its revenue. The organization said it needed $13.5 million to build the rail station and lobbied the federal government for help.

Even with the federal government’s funding announcement on Wednesday under the Airport Critical Infrastructure Program, the airport authority needs millions more to pay the project bills.

The airport is hoping the provincial government contributes to the project, but to the airport’s knowledge no provincial program exists that could be the source of the funds, according to Krista Kealey, the airport’s vice-president of communications and public affairs.

If the airport can’t get a provincial grant, it will have to borrow the remaining money. Kealey said the airport wants to avoid adding debt since it would increase airport fees and other charges.

The Trillium Line expansion is scheduled to be complete sometime in the second half of 2022.

The federal government also announced $5.7 million for the Ottawa airport through the Airport Relief Fund to help with operations.

The airport is projecting a loss of $55 million in 2021.

jwilling@postmedia.com
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...for-operations
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