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  #4361  
Old Posted May 31, 2020, 2:25 PM
mxg308 mxg308 is offline
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Huge loss for YOW as it appears AA and DL are pulling out of YOW.

AA PHL-YOW JUN 0.7>0.1[2] JUL 1.8>0[2.0] AUG 2>0[2] SEP 2>0[1.9] OCT 2>0[2] NOV 3>0[1.9] DEC 3>0[1.9] JAN 3>0[1.9] FEB 3>0[1.9]
DTW-YOW JUN 1.0>0.6[1.8] JUL 1.0>0[1.7] AUG 1.8>0[1.8] SEP 1.9>0[1.8] OCT 1.8>0[1.7] NOV 1.9>0[1.7] DEC 1.9>0[1.9] JAN 1.8>0[1.8] FEB 1.9>0[1.8]
LGA-YOW AUG 1.8>0[1.8] SEP 1.9>0[1.7] OCT 1.8>0[1.7] NOV 1.9>0[1.6] DEC 1.5>0[1.5] JAN 1.7>0[1.7] FEB 1.9>0[1.7]

So that leaves us with only UA as a non Canadian airline flying out of YOW.
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  #4362  
Old Posted May 31, 2020, 4:14 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Today’s departure count: 10

Tomorrow should be the highest since early late March as AC adds back YHZ, YUL and YVR and increases YYZ, including 2x daily Jetz.

Monday also marks the return of mainline AC aircraft to YOW.
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  #4363  
Old Posted May 31, 2020, 4:28 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxg308 View Post
Huge loss for YOW as it appears AA and DL are pulling out of YOW.

AA PHL-YOW JUN 0.7>0.1[2] JUL 1.8>0[2.0] AUG 2>0[2] SEP 2>0[1.9] OCT 2>0[2] NOV 3>0[1.9] DEC 3>0[1.9] JAN 3>0[1.9] FEB 3>0[1.9]
DTW-YOW JUN 1.0>0.6[1.8] JUL 1.0>0[1.7] AUG 1.8>0[1.8] SEP 1.9>0[1.8] OCT 1.8>0[1.7] NOV 1.9>0[1.7] DEC 1.9>0[1.9] JAN 1.8>0[1.8] FEB 1.9>0[1.8]
LGA-YOW AUG 1.8>0[1.8] SEP 1.9>0[1.7] OCT 1.8>0[1.7] NOV 1.9>0[1.6] DEC 1.5>0[1.5] JAN 1.7>0[1.7] FEB 1.9>0[1.7]

So that leaves us with only UA as a non Canadian airline flying out of YOW.
Shocking! Especially DL who had announced plans to increase both DTW and LGA this summer.

I imagine they’ll eventually be back, but that’s sad that it’s not simply a month-to-month cancellation. It shows how this will accelerate the retirement of the 50 seaters in the US.
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  #4364  
Old Posted May 31, 2020, 5:13 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post
Shocking! Especially DL who had announced plans to increase both DTW and LGA this summer.

I imagine they’ll eventually be back, but that’s sad that it’s not simply a month-to-month cancellation. It shows how this will accelerate the retirement of the 50 seaters in the US.
Pretty much any older, less efficient aircraft or oddball aircraft types will be victims of this pandemic. The CRJ100/200 is simply too inefficient with fuel for the number of people it hauls.
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  #4365  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2020, 5:40 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Departure count for the first day of June: 16

Is today the last-ever departure for DL? AA is apparently later in June.

This means both AA and DL will be pulling out of YOW for the 2nd time!
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  #4366  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2020, 5:53 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post

Is today the last-ever departure for DL? AA is apparently later in June.

This means both AA and DL will be pulling out of YOW for the 2nd time!
These companies are going to be fighting for their lives, so a small regional route is definitely on the bottom of their concerns. Especially since:

1. This airport is dominated by Star Alliance
2. It is close to bigger, more important airports
3. It is international and thus not covered by the bailout legislation from Congress which only mandates domestic US services

If every time the going gets rough these two airlines pull out, it probably doesn't really say good things about the yield they're getting.

I mean, I like YOW to have a choice for multiple providers and find it a more pleasant airport than Toronto. It sucks, but there's not much airline-related that doesn't these days.
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  #4367  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2020, 2:16 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Today's departure count: 13 + DL = 'cancelled'
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  #4368  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2020, 3:20 PM
casper casper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
These companies are going to be fighting for their lives, so a small regional route is definitely on the bottom of their concerns. Especially since:

1. This airport is dominated by Star Alliance
2. It is close to bigger, more important airports
3. It is international and thus not covered by the bailout legislation from Congress which only mandates domestic US services

If every time the going gets rough these two airlines pull out, it probably doesn't really say good things about the yield they're getting.

I mean, I like YOW to have a choice for multiple providers and find it a more pleasant airport than Toronto. It sucks, but there's not much airline-related that doesn't these days.
In the case of Delta they will codeshare on WS.

I surprised Porter does not have deeper relationships with AA.
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  #4369  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2020, 3:32 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
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Originally Posted by casper View Post
In the case of Delta they will codeshare on WS.

I surprised Porter does not have deeper relationships with AA.
I agree that Delta will probably lean on Westjet for feed via Toronto.

Since Porter's main hub is YTZ and AA flies out of YYZ, a bigger scale relationship doesn't really work. Porter doesn't fly to any AA hubs, either. They're too small and regionally limited to make it worth AA's time.

Last edited by wave46; Jun 2, 2020 at 3:47 PM.
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  #4370  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2020, 3:33 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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YOW is not just Star Alliance dominated. It's Air Canada dominated. Very difficult for non-Star carriers to break in. Only going to get worse for YOW and YUL with the Transat merger.
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  #4371  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2020, 4:05 PM
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ac888yow ac888yow is offline
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I'm surprised at how much some people seem to be surprised.

It may suck to some extent, but precious few people are flying right now and for the foreseeable future.

Most if not all of these will eventually be back. My not so bold prediction.
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  #4372  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2020, 6:04 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Originally Posted by ac888yow View Post
I'm surprised at how much some people seem to be surprised.

It may suck to some extent, but precious few people are flying right now and for the foreseeable future.

Most if not all of these will eventually be back. My not so bold prediction.
It's surprising for two reasons (and DL for 3 reasons):
1) They were the only two US carriers that stuck it out at YOW during the pandemic
2) At their other Canadian stations like YQB and YHZ, they're simply cutting month-to-month, whereas at YOW, they yanked everything. However, DL has also dropped YXE outright.
3) DL were planning to increase YOW capacity by 50% this year. So to go from that to 'goodbye' in one fell swoop is kinda shocking.

The thing is, who knows what the future of aviation holds now. YOW may never see 5 million pax per year ever again, especially if most business meetings that were traditionally face-to-face go virtual.
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  #4373  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2020, 6:57 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Originally Posted by ac888yow View Post
Most if not all of these will eventually be back.
On what timescale?
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  #4374  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2020, 7:01 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post
It's surprising for two reasons (and DL for 3 reasons):
1) They were the only two US carriers that stuck it out at YOW during the pandemic
2) At their other Canadian stations like YQB and YHZ, they're simply cutting month-to-month, whereas at YOW, they yanked everything. However, DL has also dropped YXE outright.
3) DL were planning to increase YOW capacity by 50% this year. So to go from that to 'goodbye' in one fell swoop is kinda shocking.
Very hard to compete at an AC hub with a lot of originating business traffic. Those other cities may have more traffic originating in the US and a greater proportion of non-Star Alliance traffic. Might as well hand YOW traffic to AC. Their decision is pretty logical to me.
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  #4375  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2020, 7:40 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Very hard to compete at an AC hub with a lot of originating business traffic. Those other cities may have more traffic originating in the US and a greater proportion of non-Star Alliance traffic. Might as well hand YOW traffic to AC. Their decision is pretty logical to me.
I'm not sure if this holds true for Canada, but I believe that US government officials are required to use US airlines for travel first. I suspect it is why United does the Washington-Dulles run.

So, I could see that motivation bringing back the other US airlines eventually.

American runs Philadelphia.
Delta has Detroit and New York-LaGuardia.

I don't know which one would come back first. Maybe DL on New York-LGA?
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  #4376  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2020, 8:53 PM
YOWhopeful YOWhopeful is offline
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Admittedly it’s hard to compete with AC at YOW. However, before Covid I used to take the Delta flights to LGA and Detroit about once every two months and the flights were always full. I know that doesn’t necessary equate with profit for the airline which depends on ticket fares and fuel consumption specific to the aircraft flown but still... the demand was there, rarely an empty seat.
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  #4377  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 1:39 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is online now
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I guess it was expected, but I see that Flair has officially announced the postponement of flights from Ottawa.
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  #4378  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 2:58 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
I'm not sure if this holds true for Canada,...
It doesn't. Gets annoying as hell when I get booked on American carriers. I don't get free luggage as military. Meanwhile, Canadian carriers give American military personnel free baggage allowance.

I can claim it back. Still annoying though.
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  #4379  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2020, 3:24 PM
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ac888yow ac888yow is offline
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
On what timescale?
Years. More than 1 but hopefully less than 3.

We need to get a broad handle on COVID in order to restore confidence in the flying public, both leisure and business. For example, emails are flying around the public service from upper management telling staff that nobody should feel pressured to travel, and that they won't be penalized if they refuse to travel. A lot of people are going to latch onto that security blanket until they have some assurance that they either won't catch it, or can get treated if they do.

On the leisure side, absolutely everyone I know has canceled existing travel plans or has zero intention of booking something for the foreseeable future. I doubt they're an anomaly.

Last edited by ac888yow; Jun 3, 2020 at 3:38 PM.
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  #4380  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2020, 12:37 AM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
I guess it was expected, but I see that Flair has officially announced the postponement of flights from Ottawa.
Hence why the only seats available became full Y fare. Essentially zeroing our inventory. Do we have a revised startup date at this point?
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