HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Pacific West > Portland > Transportation & Infrastructure


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #121  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2009, 2:38 AM
pdxtraveler pdxtraveler is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyAlweg View Post
I never understood how those flights made sense, even in boom times. I'm surprised they lasted as long as they did.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Delta flights to Tokyo and Amsterdam to be gone by this winter.
The Port of Portland is going to pay them to stay.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #122  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2009, 1:21 PM
202_Cyclist's Avatar
202_Cyclist 202_Cyclist is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,935
Air hubs pay to keep their spokes (Wall Street Journal)

Air hubs pay to keep their spokes

Millman, Joel
Wall Street Journal

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1247...googlenews_wsj

PORTLAND, Ore. -- Portland is one of a handful of cities willing to pay big bucks to keep it connected with the rest of the world.

Port officials in Portland, Ore., say direct Tokyo flights generate $61.2 million in annual economic impact to the region.
The city's port authority voted this week to make a one-time cash payment of $3.5 million to Delta Air Lines Inc. to maintain the city's only direct link to Asia, a daily nonstop flight to Tokyo that the carrier had planned to terminate in September.

Deutsche Lufthansa AG confirmed this week that it would end its Portland-Frankfurt route in September because it wasn't profitable, leaving Delta's nonstop to Amsterdam as Portland's sole direct link to Europe. Last year Portland lost its only scheduled nonstop service to Latin America, a Mexicana Airlines flight to Guadalajara.

Smaller cities are ramping up subsidies to keep airlines from cutting routes as a stiff recession sends air traffic tumbling. "Airports are desperate," said Brian Busey, co-leader of the aviation practice at the law firm Morrison Foerster LLP in Washington.

Incentive programs have become increasingly common in recent years as airports and communities recruit carriers to fly routes that wouldn't otherwise be profitable. A longstanding federal program also provides funding to connect small cities by air.

But the Portland pact with Delta points to a new trend in which airports are giving away money to simply retain airline routes rather than recruit new ones. The direct payment also departs from typical deals that waive landing fees, share in marketing expenses or provide revenue guarantees.

Peter Kirsch, a partner at Kaplan Kirsch & Rockwell LLP in Denver, said his law firm is advising "several" U.S. airports on possible retention deals with airlines on domestic and international routes. Portland's pact extends Delta's Tokyo service until May.

In lobbying for the deal, Port of Portland officials said direct Tokyo flights generate $61.2 million in annual economic impacts to the region, helping local companies more effectively compete in the global marketplace.

David Zielke, Port of Portland's manager for air services, told port commissioners the pact would allow Portland to continue being the country's smallest city with both trans-Pacific and trans-Atlantic air links. The city has about 575,000 residents, with a metro-area population of more than two million.

Recession-battered airlines are expected to post $9 billion in losses globally this year, including a $1 billion loss among North American airlines, according to the International Air Transport Association. Passenger revenue globally and in the U.S. fell about 30% in May from a year earlier.

Airlines are continuing to scale back flights to trim losses. Seat capacity has shrunk by more than 5% since last year. But midsize airports have suffered a particularly steep falloff in international passenger traffic. Scheduled cross-border flights at such U.S. airports -- including Portland's -- are down 25% this month from a year earlier, according to the Airports Council International-North America, an umbrella group for airports.

Major airlines' traffic through Portland declined nearly 6% last year to less than 10 million passengers, said Bill Wyatt, executive director of the Port of Portland. Through the first six months of 2009, traffic was down 13% from a year earlier, he said.

Tucson International Airport in Arizona is weighing an incentive program to try to restart cross-border flights. Despite its name, the airport hasn't had any international routes since Aeromexico stopped flying to Hermosillo, Mexico, in September.

Myrtle Beach International Airport also doesn't have any international flights, but it hopes to attract some new cross-border routes through an incentive program that was renewed last month and offers steep fee discounts. Allegiant Air launched domestic service to the South Carolina beach resort this spring after accepting such incentives.

Pittsburgh International Airport inked a pact with Delta in February to launch service to Paris -- the city's first direct European link in several years. To attract Delta, the airport authority agreed to waive landing fees for two years and kick in $300,000 in marketing funds. A local economic-development group provided revenue guarantees.

Such incentives are "especially important given the current economic recession," said Deborah McElroy, a vice president of policy in Washington at Airports Council International, the industry group.

To pass muster with the Federal Aviation Authority, Portland wasn't allowed to use airport revenue to pay Delta. The money will come from general funds of the Port of Portland. It also would have to offer the same financial support to any other carrier that wants to offer the service.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #123  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2009, 9:04 AM
MightyAlweg MightyAlweg is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 160
Thanks for the WSJ link 202Cyclist!

Apparently Delta is operating that PDX-NRT route with a 767, the smallest plane to fly transoceanic routes. According to the Delta website, the 767 on that route is only a two-class set up, with Business Class and Coach offered, instead of the standard three-class intercontinental service on 777's or 747's they offer out of the normal Asia hubs like Sea-Tac, SFO or LAX.

So, considering that this is a comparitively small jetliner that Delta has running the PDX-NRT route, and that it's only set up for a two-class service with no high profit but high risk First Class available, perhaps Delta Airlines stands a chance in sticking around for another year or two with a 3.5 Million dollar subsidy compliments of the Port of Portland?

It's a very interesting arrangement however, to say the least.

Delta Airlines, We're Ready When You Are! (Especially if you pay us 3.5 Million dollars)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #124  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2009, 1:07 PM
202_Cyclist's Avatar
202_Cyclist 202_Cyclist is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,935
I was surprised that a 767 can fly nonstop from PDX-Tokyo but Boeing lists the range for the 767-200ER as 6,385 nmi (http://www.boeing.com/commercial/767...f_200prod.html) and it is 4822 miles from PDX to Narita (http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?MAP-ST...PEED-UNITS=kts)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #125  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2009, 9:46 AM
MightyAlweg MightyAlweg is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 160
Yes, it is surprising how far such a relatively small plane can fly. You generally think of 767's as making the Chicago to Dallas milk run.

Boeing designed the 767 in the late 1970's as a replacement for the aging 707 fleet. The 200ER version was primarily considered for secondary trans-atlantic routes, like Miami to Paris or Boston to Dublin. But it can also be used on trans-pacific routes, if the loads are light enough.

I do believe the PDX-NRT route that Delta has going thanks to a generous contribution from the Port of Portland is likely the only trans-Pacific route currently using a 767.

Asiana, All Nippon, Thai Airways, Singapore Airlines, China Eastern, Cathay Pacific, Eva Air, Japan Airlines, Korean Air, Air Tahiti, Air Pacific, Air New Zealand, Qantas, V Australia, Air Canada, Varig, United, American Airlines, and Continental all seem to be using big 777's, 747's, A340's, or double-deck A380's to get from West Coast cities to Asian cities.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #126  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2009, 9:02 PM
WonderlandPark's Avatar
WonderlandPark WonderlandPark is offline
Pacific Wonderland
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bi-Situational, Portland & L.A.
Posts: 4,129
Air Canada uses them trans-pacific out of YVR. I booked one to Seoul once (I had to cancel later)
__________________
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away"

travel, architecture & photos of the textured world at http://www.pixelmap.com
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #127  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2009, 5:27 AM
MightyAlweg MightyAlweg is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderlandPark View Post
Air Canada uses them trans-pacific out of YVR. I booked one to Seoul once (I had to cancel later)
You're right, it looks like Air Canada is flying a 200 seat 767 on the Vancouver-Seoul route. On the Vancouver to Tokyo route they've got a 265 seat A330 flying daily.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #128  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2009, 5:25 AM
WestCoast's Avatar
WestCoast WestCoast is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 547
the lufti flight depended on cargo and biz class travelers to make ends meet.

Businesses cutting travel is brutal on such a long thin flight.

If PDX had more tourism, more businesses, then we would have long haul service.


Took the LH flight twice to Frankfurt and back. Was just amazing both times.
Not looking forward to having to take Delta with such an inferior product.

Do hope LH comes back in a year or two as things pick up.
That was easily the best flight out of Portland.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #129  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2009, 2:03 PM
202_Cyclist's Avatar
202_Cyclist 202_Cyclist is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,935
Complaints make Portland-Tokyo flight bumpy for Delta (Oregonian)

Complaints make Portland-Tokyo flight bumpy for Delta

by Richard Read,
The Oregonian
September 03, 2009


Satoko Nielsen caught a nonstop flight from Portland to Tokyo in July, finding the video displays broken for the ride of more than 10 hours.

The Northwest Portland resident's daughter took the same Delta Air Lines flight a few days later. It departed three hours late. On the return trip, her tray table was broken.

Passengers grumble about glitches on the nonstop Tokyo service, even as the Port of Portland pays Delta $3.5 million through May to continue the route. Port managers urge travelers to support the flights, which they say Portland is lucky to have as airlines slash connections vital for international business.

Delta is hanging onto the route as the company continues updating interiors of the planes that fly it, an airline spokesman says. "We're doing everything we can to preserve service amid the worst economic environment for the airline industry in decades," says Trebor Banstetter, corporate communications manager at Delta headquarters in Atlanta.

Airport managers nationwide strive to preserve international routes for more than just prestige. Nonstop flights carry traders, investors, tourists and cargo that shower economic benefits on communities.

Once a city loses international routes -- as Portland did in 2001, when Delta ended Portland-Japan flights -- they are difficult to restore. Deutsche Lufthansa will suspend its nonstop flights between Portland and Frankfurt after Sept. 12. The silver lining, travel agents say, is that Delta's flights between Portland and Amsterdam should attract more passengers.

Delta, encouraged by the unusual subsidies that kicked in Tuesday, has so far spared Portland International Airport the fate of cities such as Atlanta, Cincinnati and New York, where the airline has cut some foreign nonstop flights.

Delta is trimming international capacity by 15 percent as it takes over Northwest Airlines. Northwest launched the Portland-Tokyo service in 2004.

Pilots say Delta lacks spare parts in Portland for the Boeing 767s that now fly the route. So parts must come from Atlanta or Los Angeles or from other airlines.

Teams of video technicians work in Atlanta and New York, pilots say. So repairs often must wait until planes pass through those cities.

Delta pilots say they don't see signs of skimping on maintenance or safety across the airline's network.

The Japan-America Society of Oregon has expressed concerns to Delta about the Portland-Tokyo service, says Paul Taylor, the organization's chairman. "But overall the message to Delta has been one of support as we look for ways to jointly improve the situation," says Taylor, partner at Taylor Global Law Office in Lake Oswego.

Other leaders in Portland's international business community avoid even slightly negative statements for fear of undermining the route or offending Delta's brass.

Many of the service complaints come from frequent fliers who miss the Airbus 330 jets that plied the route until June. Delta cut about 30 percent of its costs that month when it replaced the 330s with the smaller Boeing 767s.

Bill Wyatt, executive director of the Port of Portland, which operates the airport, says only a "real geek" would know the difference between a Boeing and an Airbus. He acknowledges the 767s are older, with smaller video screens and seats that aren't quite flat.

"I feel unbelievably fortunate that we're still in the game," Wyatt says, however. "We're now the smallest market in the U.S., and the smallest in Delta's service, that has nonstop service to both Europe and Asia. We're the only non-hub they have that flies both directions."

The 767s on the daily PDX-Tokyo route do double duty, also flying between Portland and Amsterdam. Delta will reduce the nonstop Amsterdam flights from daily to four times weekly during the winter off-season.

Delta won't disclose how full the planes are on either route. Wyatt says only that passenger counts are "high" on both legs.

Some passengers actually prefer the 767s, which pilots consider dependable.

Portland soy-sauce magnate Junki Yoshida, a former Port commissioner, is the type of customer prized by airlines -- flying frequently to Japan and back, always in business class. He says the Airbus seats, while wider, were upholstered in slippery leather, sending his body into an uncomfortable slide.

The business-class food is better these days, Yoshida says, and the 767 bathrooms are bigger. "Now," he says, "I love the bathrooms."

Delta has made improvements on the ground in Portland, chiefly to preserve jobs. On Aug. 3, the airline ended outsourcing at airport ramps, staffing cleaning and baggage crews with airline employees. Such so-called ramp stations generally yield better, quicker service.

Delta, which has 340 employees in Portland, bases flight attendants here. But pilots who fly nonstop between Portland and Tokyo's Narita International Airport hail from other Delta bases such as Atlanta and Cincinnati. In October, they will start coming from Los Angeles.

The Port's Wyatt predicts the Portland-Tokyo flights will survive. He expects Delta will upgrade the route one day to Boeing's next-generation 787 Dreamliner jets. Delta could base international pilots in Portland again someday.

Meanwhile passengers such as Nielsen, the Northwest Portland woman left without video service, say Delta crew members apologize and hand out vouchers for $50 off subsequent tickets.

Nielsen changes planes at Tokyo's Narita for Nagoya, Japan, near where her family lives. The 46-year-old translator plans to continue using the nonstop Tokyo flights. She prefers their convenience to connecting initially through a U.S. airport.

Nielsen says she didn't crave movies on her July flight. Instead she enjoyed sitting beside a friend for almost 11 hours.

"It actually didn't matter to us," she says, "because we were busy talking."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #130  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2009, 8:17 PM
tworivers's Avatar
tworivers tworivers is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Portland/Cascadia
Posts: 2,598
Seattle just picked up IcelandAir and a nonstop Reykjavik flight.

Right after losing SAS and a nonstop to Copenhagen. Delta canceled the new London service that NWA had initiated, too.

Of course they still have Paris, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Paris, and London via BA. Not to mention a bevy of Asian connections Portland can only dream of.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #131  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 4:51 AM
Okstate's Avatar
Okstate Okstate is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SE PDX
Posts: 1,367
I can't believe how many flights Iceland has with Europe/Canada/US. The tourism industry must be much greater than I had thought. Especially not bad considering Iceland as a country has less population than Eugene's MSA.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #132  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 6:03 AM
rsbear's Avatar
rsbear rsbear is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Texas - Hill Country
Posts: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okstate View Post
I can't believe how many flights Iceland has with Europe/Canada/US. The tourism industry must be much greater than I had thought. Especially not bad considering Iceland as a country has less population than Eugene's MSA.
I'm betting they are hubbing with those flights. There is no way there is enough traffic from Seattle to Iceland to support a flight.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #133  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2009, 4:18 PM
maccoinnich maccoinnich is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Portland
Posts: 7,398
Yeah, it's as a hub. Icelandair also offers stopovers in Iceland for no extra cost, and one way flights at around half the price of a return. (Most carriers charge a small fortune for one way flights.) Both of which make Iceland an attractive hub. Especially when many transatlantic flights go over Iceland anyway.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #134  
Old Posted Sep 11, 2009, 6:38 AM
MarkDaMan's Avatar
MarkDaMan MarkDaMan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Portland
Posts: 7,516
I've booked my boss on a flight to Reykjavik and I have to tell you, the airfare on IcelandAir from Seattle is phenomenal.
__________________
make paradise, tear up a parking lot
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #135  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2010, 9:48 PM
MarkDaMan's Avatar
MarkDaMan MarkDaMan is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Portland
Posts: 7,516
I think this came out STUNNING!




Port of Portland design driven by efficiency

POSTED: Friday, April 2, 2010 at 01:39 PM PT
BY: Justin Carinci

Project: Port of Portland Headquarters, or HQP2 - a 10-story building with seven floors of parking and three office floors.
Location: Portland International Airport
Size: 205,000 square feet of offices and 3,500 parking spaces, including 500 for rental cars
Total cost: $241 million, including $156 million for the garage and $85 million for the offices
Construction cost: $194 million
Architect: Zimmer Gunsul Frasca Architects
Engineers: KPFF (structural), PAE (mechanical, electrical and plumbing) and HNTB (civil)
General Contractor: Hoffman Construction
Project management: Inici Group

The Port of Portland headquarters building offers views, from the West Hills to the Cascade Mountains to the bluffs above the Columbia River, otherwise available only from a tower or an airplane.

When Port employees move into their new headquarters later this month, they’ll overlook the air and river traffic at the heart of their business. But the open layout of the $241 million building offers more than just sweeping views, said Bill Wyatt, executive director of the port. It also speeds decision-making time.

Information technology employees, who moved into the building early, told Wyatt how much quicker it is to make decisions. “This would have been four e-mails and seven meetings later,” he said.

“Now we can turn around and say ‘What do you think about this issue?’ and it’s done.”

The openness extends to the executive offices, or it would if there were any. Wyatt, like the rest of the 478-person staff, has a desk at a low-walled cubicle.

“We serve volatile, changing businesses,” Wyatt said. “We need to react quicker than the typical public agency.”

That efficiency drove the building’s design, said Eugene Sandoval, a partner at Zimmer Gunsul Frasca Architects in charge of design for the project. Aerodynamic elements suggest the hull of a boat or the wing of a plane.

“This is the first time the maritime and aviation part of the port are going to be housed in the same office,” Sandoval said. “It brought forth the ties they had together.

“They’re basically in the same business, whether it’s flying or shipping,” he said. “It’s all about connecting ports by air or water.”

The water theme is especially evident approaching the first-floor lobby, said Derrick Beneville with general contractor Hoffman Construction. There, cobblestones that once served as ballast weights line the walkway.

Overlapping glass panels on the sloping facade suggest the bow of a ship. Inside, a glass sculpture and sea-shelled terrazzo add to the ocean environment.

There are even waves in the basins of the Living Machine, which can treat more than 2,500 gallons of the building’s sewage per day. Water from toilets passes through a settling tank before cycling through eight open-air planters inside and outside the building.

Tidal motions introduce oxygen to speed up the treatment process occurring below vegetation and gravel. After a dose of ultraviolet light, the water is reused to flush toilets and urinals. As with other green features in the building, there’s no effort to hide the Living Machine. It looks like a series of planter boxes.

The moving sidewalk leading from the airport to the headquarters building looks like any other - except that it’s the first in the United States to feature motion sensors so that it turns off when no one’s around.

Heating and cooling come from 200 closed-loop, ground-source geothermal wells drilled 300 feet deep. Monitors automatically adjust blinds and dim overhead lights.

Radiant ceiling panels and zoned temperature controls account for heat gain that varies with the sun’s position, Beneville said. “It concentrates energy based on where people work.

“The south area can have cooling while another area has heat.”

The project, which broke ground in 2007, has required more than 1 million construction hours, 20 percent of those logged by apprentices.

Port officials set a goal of awarding 9 percent of the $191 million construction budget to minority, women and small business firms. Outreach, creative structuring of bid packages and an effort to broaden subcontractor skills led to nearly 24 percent of the project budget being awarded to those firms. The success is apparent on a tour of the site, said Rhonnda Parsons Edmiston, the port’s small business development program manager.

“It’s fun to walk through the project,” Edmiston said. “I could walk through and see the diversity.”

http://djcoregon.com/news/2010/04/02...by-efficiency/
__________________
make paradise, tear up a parking lot
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #136  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2010, 10:05 PM
Tykendo Tykendo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 372
Totally agree! That looks fantastic. Portland truly has a gem of an airport.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #137  
Old Posted Apr 5, 2010, 11:10 PM
65MAX's Avatar
65MAX 65MAX is offline
Karma Police
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: People's Republic of Portland
Posts: 2,138
Drove to Seatac a couple weeks ago... I was shocked at how drab it was compared to PDX. I've been through almost every major airport in the country and we definitely have one of the best. It's a great first impression for visitors.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #138  
Old Posted May 25, 2010, 4:49 AM
tworivers's Avatar
tworivers tworivers is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Portland/Cascadia
Posts: 2,598
New direct service to Toronto starts June 17.

Does anyone here know how far into the distance airlines usually have their flights available for booking? I ask because I was looking into the Delta flight to Amsterdam in October, but I could book it no later than September. Is this an early warning sign that they are likely to cancel it after the summer season? Or is this normal?

Also, I was in Cincinnati over the weekend (flew on Delta, ended up with a $400 voucher ) -- surprised, since it is a Delta hub, that we don't have a direct flight there...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #139  
Old Posted May 25, 2010, 8:11 AM
JordanL JordanL is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by tworivers View Post
New direct service to Toronto starts June 17.

Does anyone here know how far into the distance airlines usually have their flights available for booking? I ask because I was looking into the Delta flight to Amsterdam in October, but I could book it no later than September. Is this an early warning sign that they are likely to cancel it after the summer season? Or is this normal?

Also, I was in Cincinnati over the weekend (flew on Delta, ended up with a $400 voucher ) -- surprised, since it is a Delta hub, that we don't have a direct flight there...
Usually they don't let you book more than six months in advance, at most, because of how they change flights and times.

It's unfortunate, but no airlines sell general "from point A to point B sometime on this day" tickets.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #140  
Old Posted May 25, 2010, 4:54 PM
pdxtraveler pdxtraveler is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by tworivers View Post
New direct service to Toronto starts June 17.

Does anyone here know how far into the distance airlines usually have their flights available for booking? I ask because I was looking into the Delta flight to Amsterdam in October, but I could book it no later than September. Is this an early warning sign that they are likely to cancel it after the summer season? Or is this normal?

Also, I was in Cincinnati over the weekend (flew on Delta, ended up with a $400 voucher ) -- surprised, since it is a Delta hub, that we don't have a direct flight there...
I am a travel agent. I can book out about 320 days. I see Delta even in March '11. I think you were probably checking a Tuesday or Wednesday. Delta cuts from daily to 5 days a week in fall and winter. They just don't fly Tuesdays and Wednesdays.

I was really disappointed that Delta cut their PDX-Cincinnati flights, my clients much preferred those connections to connecting in Atlanta.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Pacific West > Portland > Transportation & Infrastructure
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 5:18 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.