Halifax Stadium Discussion

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by q12

Do people from London, Ontario threaten to not watch pro sports in Toronto or Hamilton unless they hold some home games in London (Although the Argos might do better attendance wise in London )

Teams in Toronto and Hamilton aren't called Southern Ontario or Ontario and regional support isn't required for the team's financial viabilities.

[q12]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Teams in Toronto and Hamilton aren't called Southern Ontario or Ontario and regional support isn't required for the team's financial viabilities.

It was a rhetorical question. I guess maybe a better example to this argument is Saskatoon and Regina. I wonder if Saskatchewan were two provinces, would people from Saskatoon still come to watch the CFL in Regina for the "Prairie Roughriders"?

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by q12

It was a rhetorical question. I guess maybe a better example to this argument is Saskatoon and Regina. I wonder if Saskatchewan were two provinces, would people from Saskatoon still come to watch the CFL in Regina for the "Prairie Roughriders"?

These "rhetorical questions" hold no weight whatsoever.

As has been said many times the fiscal feasibility of a CFL team in Halifax in part relies on the rest of the Maritimes being on board. If this thread is any indication that plan will result in failure and less-than-stellar results.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by q12

It's not a joke. If you read my post carefully you would have saw that I wrote Charlottetown/P.E.I.

January 1st, 2020 population estimate for Charlottetown including all of P.E.I. is almost 160,000. Moncton would be around 155,000.

Halifax is about 450,000.

Well, if you are using all of PEI and all of HRM (which has about the same area as PEI) in your calculations, then, an apples to apples comparison would be all of southeastern NB (Westmorland/Albert/Kent Counties), which would be about the same physical size.

HRM - 450,000
SENB - 230,000
PEI - 160,000

But, you have never been interested in apples to apples comparisons, it is so important to you that everyone realizes Halifax's absolute hegemony over the Maritimes in every possible field, that you would rather compare persimmons to pomegranates.

Look, I am not saying that the team should not be based in Halifax. That battle is over and Halifax won. I am arguing that Halifax needs to realize that the base for the team should be regional, and that outreach efforts will be necessary to ensure interest in the rest of the region for a Halifax based football team. You on the other hand seem to feel that other Maritimers should feel grateful to be able to drive 4-5 hours to catch a game a couple of times a year, having to stay overnight in a hotel and eat in several of your fine dining establishments for the privilege. At the same time, you seem to feel that the Schooners do not owe non Haligonian Maritimers anything in return.

Other teams do not operate in this manner.

The Roughriders, although based in Regina have their training camps in Saskatoon every year and I believe they play some exhibition games in Saskatoon every year too. They have community outreach programs all over the province. The Roughriders work hard to obtain the loyalty of the residents of Saskatchewan and to make people believe that the Roughriders are indeed their team.

It's not just the Roughriders that do this. The New England Patriots do outreach as well. They in fact consider the Maritimes as part of their territory. I remember one instance about 8-9 years ago, the Patriots had some kind of a contest and the Miramichi Valley High School won, and the Patriots sent Rob friggin Gronkowski up to the Miramichi for a full day at the high school. There was an assembly, autographs were signed and Gronk ended up tossing the football around with kids on the sports field afterwards. It was great PR.

Yet, you do not seem to feel this is necessary or even advisable for the Schooners. You seem to feel that since Halifax is the undisputed elite paragon alpha city of the Maritimes, that the rest of us should feel grateful for the privilege of supporting your team.

And this is what it boils down too. You think the Schooners should be your team (as in a Halifax team) rather than our team - i.e. a Maritime team based in Halifax.

Get over yourself.

[q12]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Get over yourself.

Who kicked your cat?

[elly63]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Steve Murphy loves to stir the pot of regional jealousies and competition especially Moncton vs Halifax.

I used to work with Murph and never noticed any of that and don't know why he would do it or have the opportunity to do it. Especially because he was from Saint John, IIRC he and Paul Mennier (remember him?) were the same age and both came out of Saint John around the same time.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by JHikka

If this thread is any indication that plan will result in failure and less-than-stellar results.

That's quite a conclusion you've jumped to, just because you want it to fail doesn't mean it will.

I'm probably the only person on this forum who has lived in all three of the centres we've been talking about. Outside of this forum, where some folks are just giving each other "the business" I have never heard anyone ever talking or caring about any supposed rivalry.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by elly63

That's quite a conclusion you've jumped to, just because you want it to fail doesn't mean it will.

Now you're just putting words in my mouth. There's a difference between wanting something to fail and thinking something will fail. I have a number of issues with this project as it currently stands:

• I think SSE is banking too much on regional support for a team that will depend very much on gate revenues to succeed. A lack of corporate support in the city will force the owners to find raw revenues from fans. Perhaps the proponents partner with a major corporate backer but thus far that hasn't happened.
• I don't think Halifax is enough of a proven market to dump $100M+ into so that a team may be successful. I don't think the economics of the CFL provide the proponents with enough of a benefit to provide any ROI on whatever amount they're investing in the project. The project, at least to me, feels like the proponents were looking for a gift stadium from government.
• Halifax can do better for a large-scale permanent stadium than one with half permanent seats and half temporary seats as it's currently presented, or whatever the proponents will return with to present to council in June.

I'd love to see Halifax have a pro gridiron team with a large-scale stadium but with Mooseheads, Wanderers, Hurricanes, and now Thunderbirds, I think the market may be saturated. Again this is aside from the financials that a new stadium requires. It feels like the CFL needs Halifax more than Halifax needs the CFL.

So, as much as i'd like to see this project move forward I can't personally see how most of it is a good idea as it's currently presented.

[elly63]

Not to put words into your mouth but if your posts on Skyscraperpage forum are any indication you hope this project will fail despite the lengths you go to pretending to prove otherwise.

I suppose the Toronto market is too saturated for the NFL as well, right?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Well, if you are using all of PEI and all of HRM (which has about the same area as PEI) in your calculations, then, an apples to apples comparison would be all of southeastern NB (Westmorland/Albert/Kent Counties), which would be about the same physical size.

HRM - 450,000
SENB - 230,000
PEI - 160,000

But, you have never been interested in apples to apples comparisons, it is so important to you that everyone realizes Halifax's absolute hegemony over the Maritimes in every possible field, that you would rather compare persimmons to pomegranates.

Look, I am not saying that the team should not be based in Halifax. That battle is over and Halifax won. I am arguing that Halifax needs to realize that the base for the team should be regional, and that outreach efforts will be necessary to ensure interest in the rest of the region for a Halifax based football team. You on the other hand seem to feel that other Maritimers should feel grateful to be able to drive 4-5 hours to catch a game a couple of times a year, having to stay overnight in a hotel and eat in several of your fine dining establishments for the privilege. At the same time, you seem to feel that the Schooners do not owe non Haligonian Maritimers anything in return.

Other teams do not operate in this manner.

The Roughriders, although based in Regina have their training camps in Saskatoon every year and I believe they play some exhibition games in Saskatoon every year too. They have community outreach programs all over the province. The Roughriders work hard to obtain the loyalty of the residents of Saskatchewan and to make people believe that the Roughriders are indeed their team.

It's not just the Roughriders that do this. The New England Patriots do outreach as well. They in fact consider the Maritimes as part of their territory. I remember one instance about 8-9 years ago, the Patriots had some kind of a contest and the Miramichi Valley High School won, and the Patriots sent Rob friggin Gronkowski up to the Miramichi for a full day at the high school. There was an assembly, autographs were signed and Gronk ended up tossing the football around with kids on the sports field afterwards. It was great PR.

Yet, you do not seem to feel this is necessary or even advisable for the Schooners. You seem to feel that since Halifax is the undisputed elite paragon alpha city of the Maritimes, that the rest of us should feel grateful for the privilege of supporting your team.

And this is what it boils down too. You think the Schooners should be your team (as in a Halifax team) rather than our team - i.e. a Maritime team based in Halifax.

Get over yourself.

FWIW, I think this is being blown out of proportion. If a Halifax CFL team happens, I think it would pretty much be a certainty that the team would work hard to attract fans from all over the maritimes, including Moncton, Fredericton, Saint John, Charlottetown, Sydney. They would be dumb not to.

Should Moncton have training camps to stir up interest? Sure, so should Saint John, or Fredericton, etc. Would anybody begrudge Moncton if they hosted CFL games until Halifax's stadium was ready? ...only the intellectually challenged ones IMHO.

Here's the deal - I'm not really a football fan in the least - just never got into it, but I would be happy to see a Maritime CFL team come to any of the Maritime provinces - it's good for our region overall to have that level of sport here. If I were a huge football fan, I'd be happy to make a 2.5 hour drive to Moncton to watch a game, make a weekend or mini-vacation out of it... maybe do 2 or 3 per season.

I'm much more of a baseball fan, and currently my only option for seeing a major league game in Canada is Toronto... or I could fly to Boston or New York which means I have to go through the BS of going to the states, with currency exchange, customs, chance that I will go bankrupt if I get sick there, etc. Would I rather travel to Moncton to watch an MLB game? You betcha, and I would. Hell, I'd even go there to watch a AAA team if it were based there - same idea, it's an excursion - an event, not just going to a game. In fact I'm hoping that Montreal will get a team so I don't have to go to Toronto to see a game (I don't really like going to Toronto). So I don't really get griping over whether it's in Moncton, or Halifax or Timbuktu - as long as it's accessible I would be friggin grateful that it's relatively close by.

I dunno... I guess I'm just getting tired of all the bitching that surrounds this, I mean goddamn it, there's a chance of a top-league sports team setting up shop in the Maritimes - something we've never had before... isn't that enough?

[elly63]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I dunno... I guess I'm just getting tired of all the bitching that surrounds this, I mean goddamn it, there's a chance of a top-league sports team setting up shop in the Maritimes - something we've never had before... isn't that enough?

It is enough and your post is right on and and this is just Internet bs and people giving each other the business (where's Wally Cleaver when you need him). There's no rivalry, and if people would stop squawking it would likely replicate the Riders to a smaller degree to start.

[q12]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I'd love to see Halifax have a pro gridiron team with a large-scale stadium but with Mooseheads, Wanderers, Hurricanes, and now Thunderbirds, I think the market may be saturated. Again this is aside from the financials that a new stadium requires. It feels like the CFL needs Halifax more than Halifax needs the CFL.

Winnipeg which has about 1,000,000 in the 125km range that Halifax has 750,000 hosts a NHL, CFL, CPL, AHL, WHL, AA team.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by q12

Who kicked your cat?

Well, metaphorically speaking, it's you kicking my cat.

My actual cat however is in fine fettle, aside from being a tad arthritic.

Nothing I have posted above was untrue. I do think it is in the best interests of the Schooners to make the effort to be Atlantic Canada's team. You on the other hand seem to believe that (with your map showing 750,000 Nova Scotians within 125 km of Halifax) Halifax should just tell the rest of the region to screw off.

That's fine. I will not engage you further on this issue. I just think you are wrong.

I betcha that you must have Rick Howe's call-in number on speed dial.........

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by elly63

It is enough and your post is right on and and this is just Internet bs and people giving each other the business (where's Wally Cleaver when you need him). There's no rivalry, and if people would stop squawking it would likely replicate the Riders to a smaller degree to start.

Thanks. Good reminder not to take the internet too seriously, which I don't. I also spare myself from the mind-numbing experiences of facebook and twitter - it's hard to believe how low we've sunk in such a short period of time...

I'll just leave off by saying I hope this works out and that everybody's happy.

[q12]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I betcha that you must have Rick Howe's call-in number on speed dial.........

That would be impossible, since everyone who calls into that show hates the stadium.

Which is ironic since Rick tends to support the stadium, and is pretty good at setting them straight.

[q12]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Thanks. Good reminder not to take the internet too seriously, which I don't. I also spare myself from the mind-numbing experiences of facebook and twitter - it's hard to believe how low we've sunk in such a short period of time...

I'll just leave off by saying I hope this works out and that everybody's happy.

I'm glad I'm not alone in refusing to use toxic facebook and twitter.

I hope for the best outcome for the Atlantic Schooners and that fans can come together to help put the Maritimes on a larger stage across this Nation.

At least with a CFL team we may finally have the attention of TSN and Sportsnet.

[elly63]

https://www.news957.com/

[elly63]

The Rick Howe Show - 9 am (Start at 2:40)
The Rick Howe Show - Thursday, December 12, 2019.

On Tuesday, Halifax council gave conditional approval to a one-time, $20-million contribution toward the construction of a stadium. Councillor Shawn Cleary voted against the motion, questioning the need for a community stadium. He gives us his reasoning.

We continue talking about the stadium with Councillor Steve Adams, who before voting in favour of the motion, asked CAO Jacques Dube about what capital projects would be scuttled if the stadium recommendation was accepted.

Anthony LeBlanc, Schooner Sports and Entertainment’s founding partner, acknowledges there is still a lot of work to do surrounding the stadium, including finding new land, securing financing, and getting the province to buy in. We have a conversation about it with LeBlanc.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by q12

Winnipeg which has about 1,000,000 in the 125km range that Halifax has 750,000 hosts a NHL, CFL, CPL, AHL, WHL, AA team.

Twice the size and three of the teams are hockey.

[q12]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Twice the size and three of the teams are hockey.

WHL team attendance is averaging 1400, and their AHL team is averaging 5,000.

AA Team averages 4,000 and CPL Team averages 5,000

You could argue the Winnipeg market may be saturated. But why bother it's easier to pick on the east coast of Canada as a bunch of bums that aren't a proven market of supporting pro sports....

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