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  #21  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2012, 9:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Copes View Post
My point was that many "environmentalists" (not calling you out, just generalizing) don't actually think about their surroundings and specific situation, and instead spout off mindless drivel that may work somewhere but not necessarily in their specific situation, which does nothing but slows progress.
No, you got it right.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2012, 9:36 PM
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Originally Posted by RyeJay View Post
Most thinking people, even if they happen to only be casual views of weather forecasts, must at the very least feel suspect toward the increasing number of record breaking weather events happening closer and closer together.
I don't suppose it has occurred to you and your ilk, because you are too busy dreaming up doomsday scenarios, that perhaps the very nature of today's world - a place where things like Twitter, with its incredible power to amplify even the most insignificant event, plus the advent of TV weather as "infotainment", which requires hype over facts and sensationalism over realism, has the least bit to do with this? Naaah, couldn't be.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2012, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
I don't suppose it has occurred to you and your ilk, because you are too busy dreaming up doomsday scenarios, that perhaps the very nature of today's world - a place where things like Twitter, with its incredible power to amplify even the most insignificant event, plus the advent of TV weather as "infotainment", which requires hype over facts and sensationalism over realism, has the least bit to do with this?
Consider "driest summer in 50 years". Actually that can be driest/wettest/warmest/coldest spring/summer/fall/winter in several different regions. Those work out to dozens of events happening during a 50 year time frame, so we'd them on average to happen pretty frequently, even though individually they might be rare. Not so impressive when you take a careful look, but it makes for a stream of dramatic news stories (particularly once you start reporting monthly or daily events). There are so many records to be broken that under normal conditions one should expect them to be broken constantly.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2012, 4:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
I don't suppose it has occurred to you and your ilk, because you are too busy dreaming up doomsday scenarios, that perhaps the very nature of today's world - a place where things like Twitter, with its incredible power to amplify even the most insignificant event, plus the advent of TV weather as "infotainment", which requires hype over facts and sensationalism over realism, has the least bit to do with this? Naaah, couldn't be.
I don't use twitter. I learn about the "nature of today's world" via scientific literature.

Take your denialism to your grave
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  #25  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2012, 4:10 AM
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Consider "driest summer in 50 years". Actually that can be driest/wettest/warmest/coldest spring/summer/fall/winter in several different regions. Those work out to dozens of events happening during a 50 year time frame, so we'd them on average to happen pretty frequently, even though individually they might be rare. Not so impressive when you take a careful look, but it makes for a stream of dramatic news stories (particularly once you start reporting monthly or daily events). There are so many records to be broken that under normal conditions one should expect them to be broken constantly.
Under what circumstance would one expect records to be constantly broken?! This has never been the case before. There was a time when weather was much more average.

And currently, for all the regions on this planet experiencing record breaking weather events -- the vast majority are warming events.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2012, 4:20 AM
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Under what circumstance would one expect records to be constantly broken?! This has never been the case before. There was a time when weather was much more average.
I tried to explain in my last post. Let's say you look at the record temperature on January 1. On any given year, the chance of that record being broken is very low. However, the chances of the record being broken any day of the year during a given year is very high because there are 365 (366 this year) possible days to choose from. Our records only go back to the 19th century so in fact we would expect to break multiple daily extreme temperature records per year on average, if the average temperature were about the same.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2012, 3:36 PM
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I tried to explain in my last post. Let's say you look at the record temperature on January 1. On any given year, the chance of that record being broken is very low. However, the chances of the record being broken any day of the year during a given year is very high because there are 365 (366 this year) possible days to choose from. Our records only go back to the 19th century so in fact we would expect to break multiple daily extreme temperature records per year on average, if the average temperature were about the same.
Yes, you did. Good try.

The chances of the record of January 1 being broken again on January 1 of the following year is extremely slight, and yet this is becoming more frequent.

The closer together, in the context of 'years', these records are broken must be considered in concert with the number of records broken per year. Our understanding of temperature goes back several hundreds of million of years, and we know that the pace of either trend (whether it be warming or cooling)has always been very gradual. I'll repeat that either trend takes tens of thousands of years, naturally.

If there is a day when a record is broken and that record was set hundreds of years ago....then no biggie -- even if many days that year broke records. If, however, a new record beats a record set 50 years ago -- and then two years later an even higher record is set -- and this is occurring for many other records for many other days during the same year -- and consecutive years show increasing numbers of days with broken records -- then to a climatologist this is quite alarming.

Global Warming has never been a bad thing for Earth before -- but now it's happening much too quickly; although to us, with our relatively short lifetimes, we don't easily see this as 'quick' because we lack the perspective hundreds of millions of years gives.

During previous periods of warming, the gradual pace gave trees the necessary time to migrate (through seed) all the way to Canada's Arctic. Since we've experience thousands of years of warming in a matter of decades our forests are now existing in climates in which they haven't evolved.

Animals and insects, being more mobile, are migrating more quickly than plants. While large animals will be stressed the most, due to our sprawled cities being in the way of their migrations, insects are having no problems migrating. In fact, many southern insects are feasting on our northern trees, in droves. This is a feedback loop that will speed-up global warming.

This is not a Doomsday; this is just a seemingly slow escalation towards one many decades down the road. Unfortunately, even this slow escalation requires immediate action because what does remain of our forests are now under a growing threat OTHER than our continued deforestation behaviours.

Human civilisation may one day decide to stop deforesting -- but we have no immediate control over the climate, which is now deforesting on its own. Any action we take NOW to slow global warming will show results in an extremely time-delayed manner, and these results must now work against these feedbacks.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2012, 3:37 PM
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Ryejay

Listen too me my friend, your politics are extream and unbalanced. I have great concern for your state of mind in regards too you arrogant denial of reason. Please understand that trees can be replanted and air will clean itself over time. What is more important is to make Halifax an oasis of great urban design. Please think of Dubia, not many damd trees there...also considering you are a card carrying socialist, you must idolize Asia while having great Disdane and hate for anything from the west. Consider this. The great china that your type heralds for its economic might...despite the fact you are an anti capaltist...and a hypocrite...is the largest polluter in the world. Also the greatest threat to the planet is the 7 billion people the will turn into 14 in 30 years or there abouts. So the greatest threat to this world and it's reasorces is the high birth rate in places like Africa and India ....and yet you remain silent on such issues....for shame
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  #29  
Old Posted Jul 19, 2012, 5:06 PM
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Ryejay

Listen too me my friend, your politics are extream and unbalanced. I have great concern for your state of mind in regards too you arrogant denial of reason. Please understand that trees can be replanted and air will clean itself over time. What is more important is to make Halifax an oasis of great urban design. Please think of Dubia, not many damd trees there...also considering you are a card carrying socialist, you must idolize Asia while having great Disdane and hate for anything from the west. Consider this. The great china that your type heralds for its economic might...despite the fact you are an anti capaltist...and a hypocrite...is the largest polluter in the world. Also the greatest threat to the planet is the 7 billion people the will turn into 14 in 30 years or there abouts. So the greatest threat to this world and it's reasorces is the high birth rate in places like Africa and India ....and yet you remain silent on such issues....for shame
Just because I disagree does not mean I'm arrogant. I have been explaining my position quite thoroughly. I'm saddened when criticisms in reply aren't of the same effort.

In fact, I've been mostly agreeing with what people have been debating.

I'm a social-capitalist, actually. Capitalism is obviously the best economic driver; however socialism is the best stabliser in ensuring a decently sized middle-class to continue feeding a country's system of capitalism. This is why I'm thankful that Canada's healthcare system is socialised; although, I would be very open to the idea of privatising small portions, as France does (which a factor in France's #1 rated healthcare).

I am fond of democratic Asia (Japan has been an amazing innovator of technology), but think China is criminal.

I love my human rights; therefore, I am not against everything "from the west." You're being awfully generic in your prejudice of me. I would much rather you take the effort to criticise specific things I've said -- instead of painting me with your big stupid paint brush of generalisations.

Shaming me for being silent on rapid population growth is ridiculous because it assumes I refuse to talk about it. I don't refuse to, but population growth is slightly off topic from the points at which I was getting. Hopefully you aren't advocating for population control -- because then some people may start shaming you for supporting Chinese ideas. Tisk, tisk.

Trees can be replanted and the air can be cleaned? .ummm.............How long does it take for a single tree to reach maturity? How about an entire forest? How about hundreds of forests: just like the filtration system of trees that existed before the European colonisation of the Americas?

The warming will not stop to wait for all these newly planted forests to grow to maturity and once again become effective carbon sinks.
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