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  #181  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2016, 1:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Coe, C.E.T. View Post
Maybe someone with better rememberies can help me with this. But years ago, say late 80's-early 90's, didn't the guy who owns the Cumberland Ferry or another business person in that area offer land/to build the bridge and all they were asking for was permission or something. I remember a private person offering substantial help and being turned down by pretty much everybody.
Google turns up nothing.
Can you read French? Here are some articles:

http://ici.radio-canada.ca/regions/o...son-cumb.shtml

http://www.lapresse.ca/le-droit/habi...ont-a-lest.php
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  #182  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2016, 1:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
A bridge plus a bermed-over tunnel would be cheaper though. The park doesn't have to be flat. It could even function as a sloped viewing area for the sports field or tobogganing hill in the winter.
That's what I have always wanted to see, although I'd be happy with a Rideau bridge and surface route. If a potential billion dollar cost(final cost how much above that?) doesn't get their attention, nothing ever will.
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  #183  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2016, 2:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Vanier View Post
I'm pretty sure that more than 90% of the people in Vanier would notice their community being sliced up by a major truck route. But seeing that you lived on King Edward, I might just have to re-evaluate your assertion as that would make you an expert on Vanier.

As an FYI, King Edward is in Lowertown/Sandy Hill. Vanier is much further to the east and is a separate community (on the other side of the Rideau River). This is a community that fought off the closure of the Montfort Hospital during the Harris/Rae years and won. If you think that the residents would just lie back and accept this road, you are kidding yourself.
I don't recall suggesting this, and I don't think I would have as I would expect opposition (to any plan). That does not change my opinion that it would be the best solution, accepting that there is no perfect solution and perhaps not even a good solution.
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  #184  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2016, 2:22 PM
Norman Bates Norman Bates is offline
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Originally Posted by Vanier View Post
I'm pretty sure that more than 90% of the people in Vanier would notice their community being sliced up by a major truck route. But seeing that you lived on King Edward, I might just have to re-evaluate your assertion as that would make you an expert on Vanier.

As an FYI, King Edward is in Lowertown/Sandy Hill. Vanier is much further to the east and is a separate community (on the other side of the Rideau River). This is a community that fought off the closure of the Montfort Hospital during the Harris/Rae years and won. If you think that the residents would just lie back and accept this road, you are kidding yourself.
Rae had nothing to do with the closure of the Montfort. That was all Harris. And tip of the hat to Gisele Lalonde for stepping up and doing the right thing for her community.
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  #185  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2016, 2:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
To get from the viaduct over King Edward to a tunnel beneath the Rideau River in the distance available would be a pretty steep drop. Tee ramp down would have to start much closer to the M-C bridge.
No reason they couldn't go under King Edward. Probably necessary if it continues to connect to King Edward (unless they build an overpass over the overpass for the southbound traffic to get to the new "tunnel").

As for tolls, since, as hwy418 pointed out, commercial vehicles are not permitted on the Champlain, Portage and Alexandra bridges, one option would be to have a toll for all commercial vehicles on the Macdonald-Cartier Bridge. That way they can't avoid the toll by using city streets (unless they decide to use the Chaudière Bridge instead, but there are solutions to that if it becomes a problem).
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  #186  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2016, 3:21 PM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
No reason they couldn't go under King Edward. Probably necessary if it continues to connect to King Edward (unless they build an overpass over the overpass for the southbound traffic to get to the new "tunnel").

As for tolls, since, as hwy418 pointed out, commercial vehicles are not permitted on the Champlain, Portage and Alexandra bridges, one option would be to have a toll for all commercial vehicles on the Macdonald-Cartier Bridge. That way they can't avoid the toll by using city streets (unless they decide to use the Chaudière Bridge instead, but there are solutions to that if it becomes a problem).
My spidey-sense tells me that with all of the nice developments in the cards for LeBreton and Zibi, the days of heavy truck traffic on the Chaudière may be numbered...
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  #187  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2016, 5:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
My spidey-sense tells me that with all of the nice developments in the cards for LeBreton and Zibi, the days of heavy truck traffic on the Chaudière may be numbered...
It is starting to sound like we will desperately need bridges suitable for truck traffic both in the west and east end of the city.
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  #188  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2016, 12:59 PM
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The Ottawa/Ontario Tunnel Scoping Report

Shouldn't the Ottawa/Ontario tunnel report be out by now. They said "early 2016" if I recall. I think we are now "mid 2016" by any reasonable reckoning.
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  #189  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2016, 1:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JM1 View Post
Shouldn't the Ottawa/Ontario tunnel report be out by now. They said "early 2016" if I recall. I think we are now "mid 2016" by any reasonable reckoning.
It was announced this week the study is delayed until September
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...&postcount=128
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  #190  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2016, 8:29 PM
Jeremy Coe, C.E.T. Jeremy Coe, C.E.T. is offline
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Thanks for the links, but this was waaaaaaay before 2007. This was early 90's at the latest. I could also be remembering the facts incorrectly.
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  #191  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2016, 8:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeremy Coe, C.E.T. View Post
Thanks for the links, but this was waaaaaaay before 2007. This was early 90's at the latest. I could also be remembering the facts incorrectly.
That could very well be. But there has only been one owner of the Masson-Cumberland ferry for the past 30 years or more, and that's Maurice Bourbonnais.
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  #192  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2016, 3:26 AM
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  #193  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2016, 3:35 AM
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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
King Edward truck tunnel study coming in August

Matthew Pearson, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: July 26, 2016 | Last Updated: July 26, 2016 2:06 PM EDT


There’s an incremental bit of news on the long-awaited release of the King Edward truck tunnel study — it will be published during the week of Aug. 15.

That’s according to a letter Postmedia received from Rick O’Connor, the city clerk and solicitor and the overseer of Ottawa’s access-to-information shop.

Readers may recall a report in May that said the release of the study into the feasibility of building a truck tunnel underneath King Edward Avenue would be delayed until September — months after the findings were supposed to be presented to the transportation committee.

Part of the reason given for the delay was the arrival of new city manager Steve Kanellakos, who needed to be brought up to speed on the file.

That tidbit prompted us to file an access request seeking any and all briefing materials and correspondence prepared for or sent to Kanellakos about the tunnel study.

Actually, slight tangent, the original request included the words “briefing notes” but that was apparently too specific for the FOI folks. “Based on an extensive review of our records, it has been concluded that the City of Ottawa does not have any documents that meet the description of your request,” O’Connor wrote in an earlier letter.

So, “briefing materials” it is for now and ever after on access requests.

Alas, as O’Connor wrote in his second letter, the Municipal Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act gives the city the right to deny access to records if the record or the information contained in the record will be published within 90 days after the request is made.

“City of Ottawa staff has advised that the information found in the responsive records will be published publicly during the week of August 25, 2016,” the letter said.

At that time, the information will be located here, the city says.

Mark your calendar.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...ming-in-august
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  #194  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2016, 2:27 PM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is online now
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
King Edward truck tunnel study coming in August

Matthew Pearson, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: July 26, 2016 | Last Updated: July 26, 2016 2:06 PM EDT


There’s an incremental bit of news on the long-awaited release of the King Edward truck tunnel study — it will be published during the week of Aug. 15.

That’s according to a letter Postmedia received from Rick O’Connor, the city clerk and solicitor and the overseer of Ottawa’s access-to-information shop.

Readers may recall a report in May that said the release of the study into the feasibility of building a truck tunnel underneath King Edward Avenue would be delayed until September — months after the findings were supposed to be presented to the transportation committee.

Part of the reason given for the delay was the arrival of new city manager Steve Kanellakos, who needed to be brought up to speed on the file.

That tidbit prompted us to file an access request seeking any and all briefing materials and correspondence prepared for or sent to Kanellakos about the tunnel study.

Actually, slight tangent, the original request included the words “briefing notes” but that was apparently too specific for the FOI folks. “Based on an extensive review of our records, it has been concluded that the City of Ottawa does not have any documents that meet the description of your request,” O’Connor wrote in an earlier letter.

So, “briefing materials” it is for now and ever after on access requests.

Alas, as O’Connor wrote in his second letter, the Municipal Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act gives the city the right to deny access to records if the record or the information contained in the record will be published within 90 days after the request is made.

“City of Ottawa staff has advised that the information found in the responsive records will be published publicly during the week of August 25, 2016,” the letter said.

At that time, the information will be located here, the city says.

Mark your calendar.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...ming-in-august
I assume that one of these dates contains a typo.
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  #195  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2016, 3:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Richard Eade View Post
I assume that one of these dates contains a typo.
Given that it says "week of" and August 15 is a Monday and August 25 is a Thursday, my guess is the week of August 15 is correct and the other was a typo.
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  #196  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 4:35 PM
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  #197  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 5:07 PM
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After ongoing research, consultation, and analysis and evaluation of possible alternatives, the project
team determined that constructing a tunnel from the Macdonald-Cartier Bridge to Highway 417 is feasible.

The Cross Country alternative was deemed the ‘most feasible alternative’ (see Figure 2) for the following
reasons:
• The alignment results in a high geometric standard;
• The alignment has minimal to no impact development on adjacent development;
• Anticipated impacts at portals can be mitigated; and
• There appears to be opportunities to modify / refine the design to improve the performance of the
solution

This Cross Country alternative connects the Macdonald-Cartier Bridge with the Vanier Parkway
interchange to Highway 417. It runs in a south-easterly direction under the neighbourhoods of Lowertown
and Sandy Hill, before running parallel to the Rideau River and eventually crossing the River to connect
to the Vanier Parkway.

Cost estimates prepared as part of this study provide an indicative cost to design and construct a twin
bore, four-lane facility connecting the south end of the Macdonald-Cartier Bridge to the Highway 417 /
Vanier interchange via a cross-country route. Parametric costs for various items were developed. Soft
costs for design, engineering management and oversight were added, and a range of contingency costs
applied. The likely project cost, with a low and high contingency range, is $1.7 to $2 billion ($2015).
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  #198  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 5:13 PM
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Truck tunnel can be done, but it would cost up to $2B

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: August 17, 2016 | Last Updated: August 17, 2016 12:53 PM EDT


A truck-diverting tunnel connecting Highway 417 with the Macdonald-Cartier Bridge would cost up to $2 billion to build, according to a study released Wednesday.

It’s possible to build a tunnel under Sandy Hill and Lowertown with two lanes in each direction, consultant Parsons says. The recommended alignment has the tunnel beginning at the intersection of Coventry Road and the Vanier Parkway, going under the Rideau River, and stretching 3.4 kilometres to the interprovincial bridge.

Rideau-Vanier Coun. Mathieu Fleury the study is a “huge step” to bringing more safety to communities in his ward.

“There are a lot of projects and files that I work on, but this is the one that keeps me up at night,” Fleury said.

People have been killed and injured by large trucks snaking through the tight downtown Ottawa truck route between Highway 417 in Ottawa and Highway 5 in Gatineau.

The construction estimate for the preferred alignment is between $1.7 billion and $2 billion.

City hall doesn’t have $2 billion to build a truck tunnel. The city would need to negotiate with the upper levels of government on funding, plus consider other revenue options, like tunnel-specific tolls.

An interprovincial bridge over Kettle Island was estimated at $1.1 billion before the Ontario government backed out of the project, which led to the city and province investigating the feasibility of a truck tunnel. Fleury said if the upper-tier governments were willing to consider funding a big-ticket project like a bridge, then they should be open to funding a tunnel.

The city and province cost-shared the $750,000 study after the National Capital Commission abandoned a process to locate a new interprovincial crossing over the Ottawa River.

Another councillor is skeptical about the study’s findings, worrying that truck traffic would be shifted to communities in his ward.

Rideau-Rockcliffe Coun. Tobi Nussbaum doesn’t like how the study recommends a traffic circle off Highway 417 near the south tunnel portal, not far from homes. On top of that, Nussbaum warns the tunnel proposal would only reduce the truck traffic downtown, not eliminate it.

The study says making it a truck-only tunnel can’t be justified based on the forecasted traffic demand, noting that 35 per cent of truck traffic using downtown streets wouldn’t use the tunnel because the hulking vehicles make local deliveries or pickups. Trucks transporting dangerous goods shouldn’t use such a tunnel either, the study’s authors recommend.

The study predicts more than 25,000 of all kinds of vehicles would use the tunnel daily.

Under the preferred alignment, a twin-bore tunnel would sweep through the east sections of Sandy Hill and Lowertown to the Macdonald-Cartier Bridge. The alignment would avoid crossing the LRT tunnel but would cross the planned combined sewage tunnel.

The study considered six options for a tunnel alignment, ranging from a tunnel 1.9 kilometres long to 3.7 kilometres long. The recommended option would have the lowest impact to existing buildings and fewer challenges with ground conditions, the study says.

If council continues looking into the tunnel, it will need additional studies on ground conditions and impacts to the surrounding communities. The city, along with the province and likely the federal government, would need to figure out who should own and operate the tunnel.

Council’s transportation committee is scheduled to discuss the report Sept. 7.

jwilling@postmedia.com
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-cost-up-to-2b

Last edited by rocketphish; Aug 18, 2016 at 12:55 AM. Reason: Updated story
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  #199  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 5:30 PM
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Interesting... I don't think anyone was expecting an alignment that far east.

$2B is about what I was expecting. As an interprovincial trade link, it's an ideal candidate for federal funding, but we'll see how that goes.

Did the study include a figure for how much revenue could be made from tolls? I don't think it will even come close to the construction cost; but every little bit helps.
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  #200  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2016, 6:00 PM
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Sad that they were not able to incorporate a direct connection to the 417. Therefore, in my opinion this whole project is pointless.

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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
Did the study include a figure for how much revenue could be made from tolls?
If the goal of the tunnel is to get trucks off city streets, a tunnel could never be tolled for trucks. For cars, sure, but truck drivers are a cheap lot and they won't pay a toll unless the truck owner foots the bill.
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