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  #19021  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2023, 2:01 PM
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QC and Montreal have a lot of development on the corridors (especially the south shore along Highway 20, Eastwards from Montreal, where the development goes on and on). Montreal and Ottawa? There ain't much once you get out of the Montreal Metro: Rigaud (middling), Hawkesbury (middling), Herb's (truckstop), Casselman....and a lot of trees/fields.
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  #19022  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2023, 2:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
I have never viewed Quebec as just an a hinterland of Montreal. It is very distinct from Montreal and is a major hub for Quebecers east of Drummondville or Trois Rivieres.
Montreal is the clear metropolis of all of Quebec (and all of French-speaking Canada in fact) but Quebec City does have its own hinterland thing going on in eastern Quebec, up to the Saguenay-Lac-St-Jean and even into northern New Brunswick to some degree.

Interestingly enough, Abitibi-Témiscamingue in far-off NW Quebec is in Montreal's hinterland.
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  #19023  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2023, 2:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Taeolas View Post
Well, if anything Ottawa is in Montreal's Hinterland as much as QC is. Both are similar distances away from Montreal; but both are still distinct major cities in their own rights.
)
Ottawa is a bit of both. Historically it was much more Montreal-oriented but in recent decades Ottawa in general has become way more oriented towards Toronto.

Though Ottawa francophones and also certain specific ethnic communities remain more Montreal-oriented.

And Gatineau of course is totally Montreal-oriented.
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  #19024  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2023, 2:21 PM
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The Madawaska region of NB is quite definitely in Quebec City's orbit (both geographically and ethnoculturally). People from Edmundston who are looking for a weekend getaway very definitely go to QC and not Freddy or Moncton. Same thing for tertiary healthcare (for the most part). Educationally however, I thing citizens of la Republique are a little more bound to NB than QC.
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  #19025  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2023, 2:28 PM
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Originally Posted by FrAnKs View Post
One easy way to measure a city's influence is its daily newspaper in corner stores. In Victoriaville per example, I have noticed that they get Le Journal de Québec but in Drummondville, it's Le Journal de Montréal.
When travelling on Route 148 in Western Quebec east from Gatineau, you'd see LeDroit (Ottawa-Gatineau newspaper) a lot more until Route 344 which leads to Hawkesbury in Ontario across the river. Then east of Route 344 towards Lachute it's all Montreal papers and LeDroit disappears.

This area is also the boundary between the Outaouais and Laurentides administrative regions, so it makes sense.
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  #19026  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2023, 4:23 PM
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Another proxy of where hinterlands begin and end is to look at is where people who grew up in a city between two other major cities eventually settled later in life.

I grew up in Peterborough and, anecdotally, I'd say that, 20 years later, where my high school graduating class ended up is approximately:

- 30% stayed in Peterborough
- 40% in GTA (myself included)
- 15-20% in Ottawa
- 5-10% in rest of Canada, mostly in other Ontario cities like Kingston, London; I know 1 guy who moved to Thunder Bay
- A handful of people who left Canada altogether. Based on people's life stages, there were once way more, but once we approached middle age, a lot of people moved back permanently.

Peterborough is 130 km to Toronto and 270 km to Ottawa. For simplicity's sake, if you assume the attraction to another city is some function of population of that other city divided by distance, then Ottawa is actually disproportionately overrepresented.
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  #19027  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2023, 6:46 PM
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
Another proxy of where hinterlands begin and end is to look at is where people who grew up in a city between two other major cities eventually settled later in life.

I grew up in Peterborough and, anecdotally, I'd say that, 20 years later, where my high school graduating class ended up is approximately:

- 30% stayed in Peterborough
- 40% in GTA (myself included)
- 15-20% in Ottawa
- 5-10% in rest of Canada, mostly in other Ontario cities like Kingston, London; I know 1 guy who moved to Thunder Bay
- A handful of people who left Canada altogether. Based on people's life stages, there were once way more, but once we approached middle age, a lot of people moved back permanently.

Peterborough is 130 km to Toronto and 270 km to Ottawa. For simplicity's sake, if you assume the attraction to another city is some function of population of that other city divided by distance, then Ottawa is actually disproportionately overrepresented.
Interesting stuff. Kingston certainly seems in Ottawa's orbit. Peterborough feels like it is being tugged by Toronto and Ottawa. I think with the 115 it feels more connected to Toronto.

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  #19028  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2023, 6:48 PM
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Originally Posted by harls View Post
Interesting stuff. Kingston certainly seems in Ottawa's orbit. Peterborough feels like it is being tugged by Toronto and Ottawa. I think with the 115 it feels more connected to Toronto.
I'd put Kingston right in between Toronto and Ottawa in terms of influence.

Peterborough seems way more oriented to Toronto. You rarely hear about Peterborough in Ottawa but you do hear about Kingston.
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  #19029  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2023, 8:10 PM
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
Peterborough is 130 km to Toronto and 270 km to Ottawa. For simplicity's sake, if you assume the attraction to another city is some function of population of that other city divided by distance, then Ottawa is actually disproportionately overrepresented.
I wonder to what extent Trent is responsible for this. When I was studying there in the mid- to late-00s, students from Ottawa and the surrounding region seemed to outnumber GTA students (particularly if Oshawa and its environs are excluded). Those connections certainly had an effect on how my classmates' personal and professional lives developed thereafter, including locals. Meanwhile, Trent remains pretty solidly off the radar for the GTA, substantially overshadowed by Queen's, Western and the Waterloo/Laurier/Guelph triangle for those seeking a smaller city education (indeed, getting away from my former HS classmates was one of the top reasons I chose the school).
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  #19030  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2023, 8:31 PM
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There are a bunch of factors in the regional dynamics here.

For example, Halifax is (as MonctonRad pointed out) where the large regional hospitals are that people from the rest of the Atlantic provinces get transferred/referred to when necessary.

YHZ is the undisputed hub airport for the region.

The main regional (4 provinces) offices for Canada's 5 largest banks in are in Halifax.

The main regional (4 provinces) offices for CBC, CTV, and Global are in Halifax.

Within the Atlantic provinces, there's a ~1/3 chance that one's telecom and/or electrical services are provided by a TSX/NYSE-traded corporation HQ'd in Halifax.

It's a major focal point for Federal agencies including the Navy, Coast Guard, RCMP, and about a dozen different Departments and Crown Corporations.

It's a focal point for the regional/national fishing industry and about a 1hr drive from the region's most productive farmland.

It's the capital of the largest of the 4 provinces and is located near NS's geographic centre, both literally and in terms of how NS's population is distributed. It's one of two highway hubs in the province (the other being Truro) and nearly all of the major NS Government offices are located there.

It has the best opportunities and supports in the region for non-Anglophones in general and probably the second-best for Francophones after Moncton/Dieppe.

Since the early 2000s it's consistently been the first city to get major "new-to-the-region" retailers like Ikea and Apple (in the 90s it seemed common for Moncton and/or Bangor to get those first).

In terms of nearby cities that are larger, the closest one by land is Quebec City, a 10 hour drive west. The closest by air (also the closest that offer a lot of things that Halifax doesn't, the closest that have a larger English-speaking population, and the closest NHL teams) are Boston and Montreal, neither of which really feel "close" - each of them is a ~12 hour drive away and in a different time zone, with one having a different primary language and the other being in a different country. Generally if you need to go to a "higher up" city in Canada for medical, business, or political reasons it would be Toronto or Ottawa.

If you go north at Nova Scotia's general longitude there simply are no cities that are larger than Halifax. To both the south and east, you'd need to cross a lot of salt water before encountering a larger city, and when you did it would be in a Spanish and/or Portuguese-speaking part of the world (*maybe Catalan or Basque), in a ~100% different sphere of influence from Canada.

Winnipeg is kind of like that in a lot of ways. Nothing else is really "close". Within Canada, the cities that are "kind of close" are Regina, Saskatoon, TBay. Smaller, asymmetrically related overall, and in different provinces. It seems to also function as a hub/gateway to the North/Arctic (along with Edmonton and Ottawa, but not many other cities). The closest metro area that is larger and "has more things" is M-SP - after that it looks like it would be Edmonton or Calgary (though Winnipeg offers about the same "level of things" as those places) and Milwaukee/Chicago. Winnipeg has an NHL team; there are no NHL/"Big 4" or even CFL teams in the Atlantic region, or in QC.

The context for both QC and Ottawa is totally different. Consider that YOW, YWG, and YHZ all have similar passenger numbers and levels of service, despite the population differences; YQB is a small airport in comparison. This is because Ottawa and QC are easier to get to by land, and because they aren't needed so much as air hubs since YYZ and YUL are right there. Montreal and Toronto are nearby "head office"/"that store that we don't have here"/"specialized hospital" cities relative to QC and Ottawa, within day trip distance. Winnipeg and Halifax don't really have that - all of the cities near Halifax are smaller, and there are no cities that are really "near" Winnipeg.

Last edited by Hali87; Jan 24, 2023 at 8:50 PM.
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  #19031  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2023, 9:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I'd put Kingston right in between Toronto and Ottawa in terms of influence.

Peterborough seems way more oriented to Toronto. You rarely hear about Peterborough in Ottawa but you do hear about Kingston.
Definitive Proof:

Peterborough RFC is a member of the Toronto Rugby Union, while Kingston is a member of the Eastern Ontario Rugby Union

(and the top teams in the EORU play in the Rugby Quebec Superleague, soo.... Montreal hinterland? )
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  #19032  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2023, 2:47 AM
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Do we have data like this for Canada:



https://twitter.com/joshuamarch/stat...6vFe5XWyA&s=19
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  #19033  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2023, 2:53 AM
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And this is why I hate the contemporary idea of “body positivity.” Everyone has become a bunch of Eric Cartmans with their own excuse for being severely overweight.
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  #19034  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2023, 2:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
And this is why I hate the contemporary idea of “body positivity.” Everyone has become a bunch of Eric Cartmans with their own excuse for being severely overweight.

I mean, sure, but that's not why obesity rates have tripled in the span of 35 years.
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  #19035  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2023, 3:25 AM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
I mean, sure, but that's not why obesity rates have tripled in the span of 35 years.
Oh, I’m not saying that’s why, but it has become a contributing factor of recent.

There are many many causes behind this.

Increasing food portion sizes, poor diets of fast food and junk food, increasingly sedentary life styles, etc…
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  #19036  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2023, 5:39 AM
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While I'm sure there's a parallel overall trend in Canada, I'm also fairly sure it's not as pronounced in Canada.

Extrapolating some trends from the US map, my prediction is that Alberta and Saskatchewan have among the highest obesity rates in Canada; BC, QC, and NS among the lowest; and I would guess that Ontario is roughly average among the provinces.

I would be surprised if any province has obesity rates over 25%. On average I don't think most people that I know in the 20-40 age range weigh more than their parents did at their age - if anything the opposite is true.

Diet is one factor but lack of exercise is another. A lot of people drive to work, sit at a desk all day, and then drive to all of their other engagements. Unless they deliberately make time for physical activity, they're not burning many calories. It doesn't register that they might not need to eat as much as someone who works in construction or walks everywhere.

Last edited by Hali87; Jan 25, 2023 at 5:54 AM.
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  #19037  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2023, 6:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Do we have data like this for Canada:



https://twitter.com/joshuamarch/stat...6vFe5XWyA&s=19

This is from 2017: Canadian obesity rates continue to climb, Saskatchewan takes top spot


https://globalnews.ca/news/3639663/c...akes-top-spot/

The fattest provinces may correlate with the lowest income levels, perhaps other factors as well?

This doesn't show change over time, but I can tell you anecdotally that it has increased the same as in the US, and it's verified in the article.

Quote:
Saskatchewan’s obesity rate has climbed very quickly – growing from 30.8 per cent to 45.9 per cent between 2004 and 2015. This allowed it to overtake Newfoundland and Labrador, where the percentage of obese adults grew from 33.9 to 38.9 per cent in 11 years.
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  #19038  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2023, 8:54 AM
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I would say they correlate roughly with political leanings. The exception in Canada would be the East Coast, the exception in the US would be Hawaii (and maybe Florida which traditionally is a "swing state" even if it's associated with the right these days)

Right-leaning jurisdictions do not tend to be as concerned as left-leaning ones about reducing car dependency, making things better for pedestrians/cyclists, etc. These things add up over time and basically, the more of the population that drives everywhere, the greater the obesity rate is likely to be. This is not just about commuting to and from work but all of the other stuff as well.

Last edited by Hali87; Jan 25, 2023 at 9:10 AM.
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  #19039  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2023, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Hali87 View Post
I would say they correlate roughly with political leanings. The exception in Canada would be the East Coast, the exception in the US would be Hawaii (and maybe Florida which traditionally is a "swing state" even if it's associated with the right these days)

Right-leaning jurisdictions do not tend to be as concerned as left-leaning ones about reducing car dependency, making things better for pedestrians/cyclists, etc. These things add up over time and basically, the more of the population that drives everywhere, the greater the obesity rate is likely to be. This is not just about commuting to and from work but all of the other stuff as well.
I’m not sure about that in Canada. Right-leaning jurisdictions might be less concerned in general but they still put a ton of work to make AT infrastructure. Calgary for example has North America’s largest pathway system and Edmonton is investing $100 mill into bike lanes even though Alberta’s the heart of conservatism in Canada.

It doesn’t seem like creating the conditions for good urban design is as political as it would be south of the border. Canadians on average “get it” at a higher level and I think going forward if the modal splits start trending in the right direction so will obesity levels.
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  #19040  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2023, 4:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Architype View Post
This is from 2017: Canadian obesity rates continue to climb, Saskatchewan takes top spot


https://globalnews.ca/news/3639663/c...akes-top-spot/

The fattest provinces may correlate with the lowest income levels, perhaps other factors as well?

This doesn't show change over time, but I can tell you anecdotally that it has increased the same as in the US, and it's verified in the article.
Not surprised about Sask, but I thought Mb would have been just as bad. I see alot of heavier people here in the slurpee capital of the world.
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