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  #6161  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2022, 4:45 PM
elly63 elly63 is online now
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The second graphic looked an awful lot like the Tacoma Dome and the third looked like the Kaiser Dome bulk storage facility.
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  #6162  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2022, 5:05 PM
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I posted in the soccer section about CF Montreal's Zachary Brault-Guillard possibly transferring to Clermont in the French Ligue 1. Their stadium is undergoing a transformation (not a full dome) that could be a clue on how the Canadian stadiums could have been refurbished. Clermont only has one permanent stand now (the one in red in the video). Phase 1 would cost 34 million Euros and add a 6000 seat stand opposite the present 10k seat stand (total 16k). Final goal (Phase 3) would be a total of 30k seats

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  #6163  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2022, 11:00 PM
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  #6164  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2022, 10:06 PM
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  #6165  
Old Posted Jul 2, 2022, 11:29 PM
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An improved Stade Saputo would cost between $75 million and $100 million

Over the past five years, no less than nine new stadiums have been erected in MLS, each of which is always newer and more modern than the previous one. The further you go, the more expensive and luxurious the garber circuit stadiums are.

This means that Stade Saputo, which was built in 2008 and improved in 2012, is already starting to pull out of steam. Again this year, the same problem occurs, we still have to start the season at the Olympic Stadium, because the Stade Saputo is still not ready for the winter.

Owner Joey Saputo is well aware of the problem and has been trying for several years to remedy this situation. In the long term, it will not be viable for CF Montreal to continue to compete with other MLS teams if the club continues to play in Stade Saputo, in its current state.

According to our information, Saputo has worked with the firms Populous and Espace Construction in order to set up sketches that show the Stade Saputo with all the improvements.


The first was made in 2017, then an improved version dates from a few years ago. The club surveyed more than 1,000 fans last fall to find out what improvements they would like to see made to Stade Saputo.

Increase revenues

The first major change was to add the number of premium tickets to the stadium. We were going to destroy the northern section of the stadium, from the press gallery (Sherbrooke Street) upwards. It was planned to raise four floors of glazed luxury boxes, a section that was called the "club" section.


In these sections, a ticket can sell for a few hundred dollars, which is much more than a regular ticket.

In most MLS stadiums, 15% of tickets are of premium value, which is where most of the profit is located. The wealthiest teams reap about 50% to 70% of their revenue through these tickets.

Luxury boxes at banc of California Stadium where LAFC plays
Source: Luxury dressing rooms at Banc of California Stadium where LAFC plays

At the moment, at Stade Saputo, only 6% of the seats are considered premium. A clear delay compared to the other stadiums of the league. CF Montreal would rather target 12% to 14% of premium seats.

In recent years, some tickets such as those of the BMO Lounge sections have changed to the premium designation, but we are only talking about a few hundred tickets.

According to our information, some at the Olympic Park would not be enthusiastic about the idea of seeing a structure come to partially hide the tower of the Olympic Stadium.

In addition to the club section, it was intended to move the players' entrance to the field in the center of the northern section, and no longer to the northwest corner. Premium sections around this access were also planned.

There is also work to be done all around the stadium to increase electrical capacity, add food concessions, terraces and bathrooms. Not to mention the improvement of the two entrances to the stadium.

The players' entrance section at Banc of California Stadium where LAFC plays
Source: The players' entrance section at Banc of California Stadium where LAFC plays

Ideas that have been abandoned

A major problem for Joey Saputo is that his stadium is only used 18 to 20 times a season. To make it profitable, the club thought of holding other events there. There was even talk, at one point, of inviting the Alouettes to play their games there.

But it would have been necessary to replace the benches closest to the field with removable seats, because currently, the field is not large enough to accommodate a CFL club. There is also the problem of the natural field that would take it for its cold if a football team settled there.

So if it's not football, then you have to find other events. Concerts would also be difficult to organize.

Saputo also considered lengthening the stadium's roof to cover all the seats. But according to our information, the structure is not able to support the necessary weight for this, and the garage located directly under the stadium would also prevent it. At best, we could only cover the north platform.

When will the Stadium be winterized?

As mentioned above, unlike Tim Horton's Field in Hamilton, for example, Stade Saputo is not designed for winter.

Replacing the playing surface with a heated court is not the biggest challenge, but it is a problem that is useless to solve if you do not do the rest.

What's the point of having a heating surface if the rest of the stadium is unusable. Remember that plumbing is not functional during the winter and the benches are not designed to be used on cold days. They may also need to be replaced. Everything must be done to make it usable.

So, for now, no pun intended, the winterization of the stadium remains on the ice.

Why not proceed now?

According to our information, we are talking about a total project of between $75 million and $100 million. An amount that the Saputo family would be willing to pay 100%, without asking for help from the government. Which is quite rare.

To date, Stade Saputo has cost a total of $63 million, of which $40 million has been paid for by the Saputos and $23 million by taxpayers.

On the other hand, the great manitou of CF Montreal has never hidden his dismay with regard to the taxes he must pay annually on the structure. Not to be confused, we are talking about property taxes and not taxes.

98.5 Sports was present at the Municipal Court of Montreal in 2019 when the lawyers of the Impact and those of the City of Montreal shook hands following an agreement regarding previous taxes.

It was a small victory for Joey, but in fact he only gained points in the Case of centre Nutrilait, and not much for Stade Saputo. He gained nothing from the taxes that would have to be paid in the following years.

A contract that no longer does the trick

What is special is that Saputo has to pay property taxes on a stadium that does not belong to it. When he built the stadium on the grounds of the Olympic Park, he signed a 40-year emphyteutic lease, the first 14 years of which are behind us.

In this type of agreement, it is the tenant who pays the renewal fees and all other related taxes. When it was first designed, the Stadium was just a field with platforms around it. It must be said that before the construction of the stadium, the empty ground of the corner of Sherbrooke and Viau did not generate a penny.

Over the years, Saputo continued to inject funds and the amphitheater became a stadium, and increased in value. It goes without saying that the tax bill has also increased. And if Saputo proceeds again with these improvements, it may have to pay about $2 million to an additional $4 million annually.

If Saputo sells the team, he will not be able to pass the stage in the transaction, in order to reimburse himself. The Stadium will continue to belong to the Olympic Park despite a massive injection of funds from it. So, what to do?

Could Saputo go to court to try to end the deal? Difficult to say, emphyteutic leases are not easy to break.

According to our information, in 2004, when the Uniprix Stadium (now IGA) was renovated, it was also the subject of an emphyteutic lease. But eventually, an agreement with the City of Montreal was reached, allowing the work to take place.

Is there such a solution in the cards for Saputo? Hopefully, because it is the fate of the franchise that depends on it. Without an agreement, there is little chance that the work will move forward.

At a press briefing last week, Commissioner Don Garber reacted to the work that needs to be started and has not yet been started.

"Several pitfalls stand in front of him (Saputo). His agreement for his stadium is unique and practically prevents him from investing more money to continue to offer fans a most modern experience. I know Joey wants to proceed and he is very frustrated. But we limit it in what it can do, it must still remain logical and rational financially. "

He nevertheless wanted to reiterate that in his opinion Joey Saputo remained his trusted man here in Montreal.
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  #6166  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2022, 12:56 AM
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^Haha - I assume that is one of those articles translated from French.
Pretty well done actually.
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  #6167  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2022, 1:01 AM
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^Haha - I assume that is one of those articles translated from French.
Pretty well done actually.
Yeah I did as I am not sure how many on here would have understood the orginal French version
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  #6168  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2022, 1:04 AM
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I linked the same article back in March.



There was also some discussion regarding these plans from the original linking as well.
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  #6169  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2022, 1:05 AM
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All things considered 100 million isn't too bad if they could get it retrofitted for cfl football to get the extra 10 games a year saputo is looking for. Gary Stern the alouettes owner is a big steel magnet in Ontario and maybe they can workout a deal to build the new north grandstand and make retractable seats on one endzone for a cfl field. The alouettes offices and practice facilities are still at Olympic Park so it would make sense
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  #6170  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2022, 2:14 AM
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https://ici.radio-canada.ca/sports/1...-arena-billets

A few months before his death in March , Eugene Melnyk tried to right one of his biggest mistakes by filing a second bid for the right to build a new amphitheater near downtown Ottawa. The Senators' new draft was held up last week, but that doesn't mean the error has been completely erased.

Last Thursday, the National Capital Commission held a press conference to announce that a memorandum of understanding had been reached with the Senators . Lease negotiations can thus begin with a view to the possible construction of a new amphitheater in the LeBreton Flats area, a stone's throw from Parliament.

Incredibly, three years after Eugene Melnyk sabotaged Ottawa's biggest real estate project in 50 years, which included providing the Senators with a new home on the same lands, the NCC allowed this organization to the NHL to come to the plate a second time.

However, the second shot we serve the Senators is a lot less enticing than the first was.

In May 2016, Melnyk teamed up with John Ruddy, a real estate magnate with an impeccable reputation in the capital's business community, to secure the full development of 53 acres of LeBreton Flats. There was talk of a 3.5 to 5 billion deal that was going to create a new business, entertainment and residential district near the city center.

The establishment of a major pole of attraction was deemed necessary for the success of this project, and it was the main card that Eugene Melnyk held up his sleeve. He owned an NHL team and needed an amphitheater. However, he did not have the money to finance this new home.

At the time, Melnyk-Ruddy's development proposal was in competition with that of the Devcore Canderel DLS consortium. Devcore's proposal was backed by businessman André Desmarais and Cirque du Soleil founder Guy Laliberté. Devcore also planned the construction of a new amphitheater.

In the end, Melnyk-Ruddy's project, called Rendez-Vous LeBreton , was chosen. But fairly quickly, the relationship between the two partners had turned sour.

After the failure of the Melnyk-Ruddy partnership, a member of the Ottawa business community familiar with the litigation explained that Melnyk had simply been too greedy. He had tried to get the butter and the money for the butter.

Even if Devcore's Canderel DLS project had finished 2nd, Melnyk could have invited these credible developers to sit around the table and participate in the development of LeBreton Flats. He wanted to be paid for a new amphitheater and could have asked several partners to build it, even if it meant letting them share the profits from the vast adjacent real estate development. But that's not what he did , said this privileged witness.

Melnyk had instead tried to shift the bill for the new amphitheater to Ruddy, in addition to claiming part of the profits from the adjacent real estate project! Then, in the fall of 2018, the former Senators owner broke the camel's back by suing John Ruddy for $700 million. Melnyk blamed his partner for cannibalizing the profitability of Rendez-vous LeBreton because Ruddy was planning, with other partners, the construction of three gigantic apartment towers near the plains.

John Ruddy responded with a $1 billion countersuit. And the project had obviously fallen through.

In an attempt to save the furniture, the NCC had invited the two partners to a mediation process. The move had failed. The ties between the two men were irretrievably severed.

In the aftermath of this incredible crisis, Eugene Melnyk found himself completely isolated from the Ottawa business community. When you sue your business associates for astronomical sums, people don't flock to do business with you.

Last week, therefore, the NCC announced a revamped project.

Version 2.0 of the Senators draft will now be confined to 7 of the 53 acres of LeBreton Flats. Other developers will get rich with the rest. And instead of having a modern amphitheater built at the expense of their partners, Melnyk's heirs (his daughters Anne and Olivia) will have to find a way to finance the operation.

It is no longer the same portrait.

Fellow Ian Mendes of the Athletic site interviewed an expert who argued the Senators amphitheater would have cost between $600 million and $700 million if the 2016 project had run its course normally. However, due to the explosion in the cost of materials, he estimated the bill at more than 1 billion.

If Melnyk didn't have the means to finance the operation in 2016, it's a safe bet that his heiresses will find themselves in a similar position.

Moreover, given the poor relationship that Melnyk had with the Ottawa business community, it was not surprising to learn that the new version of the Senators project is based on four American partners:

New York-based real estate development firm Sterling Project Development, which recently completed construction of the New York Islanders' new amphitheater.

The architectural firm Populous, which participated in the design of the Videotron Center in Quebec City, and which recently drew up the plans for the new amphitheaters for the Islanders (the UBS arena), the Vegas Golden Knights (the T-Mobile Arena) and the Seattle Kraken (the Climate Pledge Arena).

Tipping Point Sports, which specializes in financing sports projects, including the construction of new amphitheaters.

The Live Nation company, which is recognized in the music and entertainment production sector. The presence of Live Nation aims to maximize attendance in the future amphitheater on evenings when the hockey team will be inactive.

The presence of these partners with the Senators proved to be very comforting for the leaders of the National Capital Commission. That said, before a first shovelful of earth takes place, someone will have to be found to pay for the construction of this famous new amphitheater.

So it will be very interesting to see who raises their hand to pick up the slack.

Senators president Anthony LeBlanc has hinted that it's not impossible that the organization will seek public funds to carry out its project. He has already begun to articulate the classic discourse that his professional team creates economic activity and wealth. This theory, however, has been demolished a thousand times by many renowned economists.

We wish the Senators good luck if they ever choose to go this route. In Canada, only one NHL team, the Edmonton Oilers, has managed to obtain public funding for its amphitheater. It took two years for the city administration and the Oilers to find common ground. In Calgary, the discussions that had been going on since 2015 broke down several months ago.

In its latest financial assessment of NHL teams, Forbes magazine estimated the value of the Senators at some $525 million. A firm agreement with the NCC securing the construction of a new amphitheater alone would likely boost the value by a few hundred million.

For the Melnyk heiresses, this could be the perfect window to sell the club. They could thus maximize their profit without having to incur huge expenses to build the amphitheater. Or without having to engage in lengthy negotiations with the City and/or the province.

But before they can think about selling the Senators or planning to build a new arena, the new owners need to get rid of the $1 billion lawsuit hanging over their heads.

The NCC could contribute to an amicable settlement by reappointing John Ruddy to develop the rest of LeBreton Flats. Otherwise, it's hard to see why Ruddy would let go, and this Damocles sword could cripple the Senators for several years.

Finally, when you add up all the pitfalls that could slow down the new amphitheater project, you tell yourself that the Senators had better continue to maintain the Canadian Tire Center well because it could be used for a long time to come.

And above all, we think that all these problems could easily have been avoided if Melnyk had better cultivated his relationship with John Ruddy. Unfortunately, harmony in business was not his thing.
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  #6171  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2022, 6:08 AM
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Man those articles are huge!
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  #6172  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2022, 5:25 PM
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All things considered 100 million isn't too bad if they could get it retrofitted for cfl football to get the extra 10 games a year saputo is looking for. Gary Stern the alouettes owner is a big steel magnet in Ontario and maybe they can workout a deal to build the new north grandstand and make retractable seats on one endzone for a cfl field. The alouettes offices and practice facilities are still at Olympic Park so it would make sense
If Saputo has spoken with fans about what improvements they want to see at the stadium, I'd be shocked if they renovate it so the Als can move in. Soccer fans despise the damage football does to the pitch. Just look at the relationship between TFC and Argos fans since the latter moved to BMO.
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  #6173  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2022, 5:29 PM
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If Saputo has spoken with fans about what improvements they want to see at the stadium, I'd be shocked if they renovate it so the Als can move in. Soccer fans despise the damage football does to the pitch. Just look at the relationship between TFC and Argos fans since the latter moved to BMO.
Saputo is stuck with 26 years on his lease, the MLS commissioner on his back and a stadium that needs to get extra dates in for use and the city of montreal tying him up in a very bad agreement. Alouettes need a more modern facility and having it by their offices and practice facility would help them out. I see this having some legs in the next 2 to 3 years.
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  #6174  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2022, 5:33 PM
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Saputo is stuck with 26 years on his lease, the MLS commissioner on his back and a stadium that needs to get extra dates in for use and the city of montreal tying him up in a very bad agreement. Alouettes need a more modern facility and having it by their offices and practice facility would help them out. I see this having some legs in the next 2 to 3 years.
I'd personally hope the Als and Impact can reach an agreement, but Saputo does need to be concerned about alienating his fanbase. He already made a lot of people upset changing the name; further disregard for their views could lead a lot of people to throw their hands up and walk away. It's a dangerous prospect in a city that only really cares about the Canadiens.
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  #6175  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2022, 6:16 PM
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How much of an impact can one football game every two weeks make on a field? When I watch Argo home games the field looks fine to me. It's not like there are bald patches all over the place. I get the impression it has more to do with overly sensitive soccer fans being butthurt over having to share the venue with other sports than it does with any actual impact on the playing surface itself.
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  #6176  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2022, 7:47 PM
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How much of an impact can one football game every two weeks make on a field? When I watch Argo home games the field looks fine to me. It's not like there are bald patches all over the place. I get the impression it has more to do with overly sensitive soccer fans being butthurt over having to share the venue with other sports than it does with any actual impact on the playing surface itself.
There's a lot of culture in soccer surrounding quality of playing surface, more so than in a lot of other sports. I think hockey fans should understand this concern to some degree.

The grass at BMO doesn't look damaged from Argos games because the grounds crew at BMO are one of the best in North America and work tirelessly to ensure that the pitch is of high enough quality every week. There are good examples in the UK of what can happen when rugby and soccer teams share stadiums, especially during the winter. I think Wigan(?) played at a shared rugby stadium and their pitch was always dreadful - it's more common in Northern England to see these sorts of stadium shares having an effect on the pitch quality.

Since it's currently ongoing, think of it like how the courts at Wimbledon fade from grass to dirt after being used every day. Same idea.
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  #6177  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2022, 8:43 PM
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Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime View Post
If Saputo has spoken with fans about what improvements they want to see at the stadium, I'd be shocked if they renovate it so the Als can move in. Soccer fans despise the damage football does to the pitch. Just look at the relationship between TFC and Argos fans since the latter moved to BMO.
And what these soccer guys won't tell you is what they're saying is a myth and a lie. Soccer actually damages turf more than football.

While we are in the realm of myth, a Northwestern University study that certain folks don't want to be better known is the one that showed the most dangerous sport for concussive head injuries was not football or hockey but high school girl's soccer. That just doesn't fit the narrative.
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  #6178  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2022, 8:46 PM
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
How much of an impact can one football game every two weeks make on a field? When I watch Argo home games the field looks fine to me. It's not like there are bald patches all over the place. I get the impression it has more to do with overly sensitive soccer fans being butthurt over having to share the venue with other sports than it does with any actual impact on the playing surface itself.
Bingo, and even worse they lie about it. Soccer causes more turf damage than football. And that's where all the trolling of various CFL forums started, when the Argos moved to BMO. Prior to that their jealousy was towards "fat, lazy baseball players"

Last edited by elly63; Jul 3, 2022 at 9:12 PM.
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  #6179  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2022, 10:20 PM
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I'd personally hope the Als and Impact can reach an agreement, but Saputo does need to be concerned about alienating his fanbase. He already made a lot of people upset changing the name; further disregard for their views could lead a lot of people to throw their hands up and walk away. It's a dangerous prospect in a city that only really cares about the Canadiens.
CF Montréal/Impact fans don't hate the Alouettes and the CFL like TFC fans hate the Argos and the CFL. (TFC and Raptors fans can also hate on the Leafs.)

Animus between fans of different sports (and their teams) in the same city seems more acute in Toronto than in other cities.

At worst people in other cities are simply indifferent or passive about the other teams. Not openly hostile.
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  #6180  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2022, 10:25 PM
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There has been talk here regarding Saputo stadium not having the luxury boxes that other teams have, but when I was watching the whitecaps vs LAFC game yesterday it seemed like not all the luxury boxes were being used, from the brief camera shots of the fans. My eyes definitely could have been playing tricks on me… Are all the boxes spoken for in Vancouver?
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