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  #201  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2019, 1:02 AM
schaalman schaalman is offline
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Why do highway traffic counts geek me out so much?

So certain roads in Toronto, LA, Sao Paulo, Houston, Atlanta or wherever else on the planet carry vehicular traffic which instinctively boggles simple minds?

But roads like the 401 in Toronto, Canada carry their burden of traffic in predominantly single occupied vehicles?

Consider subway systems around the world where individual lines carry that kind of volume with ease in an hour or less?

Tokyo, Moscow, Seoul, Shanghai, Bejing, NYC, Paris, Mexico City, Hong Kong, Guanzhou, London, where do I stop?
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  #202  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2019, 3:09 AM
jtown,man jtown,man is offline
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Originally Posted by edale View Post
In my opinion, that is rude. There's a guy who I sometimes see on the bus and he's always talking loudly on his work calls as if the whole bus was his office. I cannot stand him.

I much prefer taking transit to and from work. I can read, nap, listen to music (through headphones), people watch...whatever. But driving also has its perks. You can listen to music as loud as you want and sing along. Talking on the phone, be it for a personal call or a 'telecon' is another thing more appropriate for driving, imo.
Agree entirely. We need more of the Japanese idea of annoying no one as a core principle as a society.
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  #203  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2019, 3:30 AM
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Minato Ku Minato Ku is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schaalman View Post
So certain roads in Toronto, LA, Sao Paulo, Houston, Atlanta or wherever else on the planet carry vehicular traffic which instinctively boggles simple minds?

But roads like the 401 in Toronto, Canada carry their burden of traffic in predominantly single occupied vehicles?

Consider subway systems around the world where individual lines carry that kind of volume with ease in an hour or less?

Tokyo, Moscow, Seoul, Shanghai, Bejing, NYC, Paris, Mexico City, Hong Kong, Guanzhou, London, where do I stop?
Maybe not one hour but it's possible to get a similar daily traffic with just two tracks instead of more than a dozen of lanes.

I have the number of people traveling between two stations in Paris metro and RER.

The busiest section on two tracks in Paris is the RER A between Charles de Gaulle Etoile and la Défense with 458,118‬ passengers traveling between 6am and 11pm.
Note that between Charles de Gaulle Etoile and La Defense, there is also the subway line 1. There are 233,204‬ passengers just west of Charles de Gaulle Etoile on line 1 between 6 am and 11pm.
So that's 691,322‬ passengers west of Charles de Gaulle Etoile between 6am and 11pm.

It's not the busiest transit section between Chatelet-les-Halles and Gare de Lyon, there are 4 lines (8 tracks).
RER A : 383,022‬
Line 14 : 232,350‬
Line 1: 203,578‬
RER D (Older SNCF data): 107,743
That's 926,693 passengers east of Chatelet-les-Halles between 6am and 11pm.
Note that SNCF data are old and the traffic has risen since then.
The RER D had 520,419 passengers in my data compared to the current 615,000.
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  #204  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2019, 6:02 AM
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Originally Posted by edale View Post
In my opinion, that is rude. There's a guy who I sometimes see on the bus and he's always talking loudly on his work calls as if the whole bus was his office. I cannot stand him.

I much prefer taking transit to and from work. I can read, nap, listen to music (through headphones), people watch...whatever. But driving also has its perks. You can listen to music as loud as you want and sing along. Talking on the phone, be it for a personal call or a 'telecon' is another thing more appropriate for driving, imo.
This. I take taxis when I have to join a call on the way to work (which is rare because that’s 7.30-8am). And then I expense the cost to the project.

The absolute worst though is parents who think it’s acceptable for their kids to watch videos on an iPhone / iPad with the sound on, whether on public transportation or planes. I’ve had to walk up to parents on airplanes and told them to give the kid headphones or turn it off, multiple times.
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  #205  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2019, 5:38 PM
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i was just thinking about what a city in the desert would look like

cities in the desert shouldn't have lots of wide roads and lots of parking lots because it creates heat and if you turned these buildings into mushroom type buildings then it would make lots of shade but have lots of wind come through. the suburbs would be similar.


heres the imbed of my post if you never saw it.[/IMG]
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  #206  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2019, 5:49 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by schaalman View Post
So certain roads in Toronto, LA, Sao Paulo, Houston, Atlanta or wherever else on the planet carry vehicular traffic which instinctively boggles simple minds?

But roads like the 401 in Toronto, Canada carry their burden of traffic in predominantly single occupied vehicles?

Consider subway systems around the world where individual lines carry that kind of volume with ease in an hour or less?

Tokyo, Moscow, Seoul, Shanghai, Bejing, NYC, Paris, Mexico City, Hong Kong, Guanzhou, London, where do I stop?
Those monster highways are carrying similar amounts of people as subway tracks. If a road has 400K vehicles then that probably translates into 600K - 800K people. The busiest tracks in NYC probably average about 300K people per day.*

The scale factor is the big difference. The NYC can move 300K people in a 40 foot wide underground right-of-way, while those monster roads in Toronto or Houston moves that many people in a 300 foot right-of-way at surface or elevated.

*If you take the average daily ridership and divide the 20 parallel tracks running between lower and Midtown Manhattan.
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  #207  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2019, 9:00 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Those monster highways are carrying similar amounts of people as subway tracks. If a road has 400K vehicles then that probably translates into 600K - 800K people. The busiest tracks in NYC probably average about 300K people per day.*

The scale factor is the big difference. The NYC can move 300K people in a 40 foot wide underground right-of-way, while those monster roads in Toronto or Houston moves that many people in a 300 foot right-of-way at surface or elevated.

*If you take the average daily ridership and divide the 20 parallel tracks running between lower and Midtown Manhattan.
According to a 2015 review by the MTA, the A and C ran 212 trains northbound during the average weekday. Each train can carry probably at most 2,000 passengers (each subway car has different capacity and the configurations for each train set are different for each service line and I don't feel like doing the math).

So the A and C have close to a max capacity one-way of about 424,000 passengers per day with the real average probably around 270,000. The peak hourly rate was 26 trains heading northbound during the 8 AM - 9 AM hour. There's roughly 24,000 passengers heading from Brooklyn into Manhattan (measured at High Street) with a max capacity of about 40,000 (if the longest trains with the most capacity were used).

By comparison, the NYCDOT reported that the Brooklyn Bridge handles 54,000 automobile traffic one-way westbound (into Manhattan). Hourly it's only ~3,300 vehicles at peak (does not include taxis, buses, or vans), but it stays consistent throughout the day.

So yea, subway capacity and efficient use of space is way greater but I don't think that was ever in doubt.
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  #208  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2019, 10:34 PM
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Line 1 of the Toronto subway averages over 790,000 riders per weekday.
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  #209  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2019, 10:08 AM
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What we are talking about is not the total of users on the whole line but the number of user at one point of the line like the ADT on freeway.

In exemple the RER A in Paris carries 1.2 million passengers per day and the highest number of user at one point is between Charles de Gaulle Etoile and La Defense with 458,118‬ passengers travelling on the line between both stations.
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  #210  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2019, 11:45 AM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
Ah... your normal day. Everything looks a-okay.

If its not jammed, something is going on, than one should worry.

Its interesting because have you ever noticed that it always seems like the one exit you have to take is always either sealed off or a lane is isolated due to construction? More of a observation of coincidence.

Like if your exit for your destination lands you on "X" street, there's a good chance that "X" street is either closed off or has a detour; just because of luck or the universe playing a bad trick on you. Maybe its just bad luck, but it always seems like for me. Like if I have to take 68th street, somewhere in Queens, on that day, and only on that day, that street will be closed off. Or if I have to get off at some random exit, let's say exit 32, good chance that exit will have some horrific issues near it.

Can never win lol.

I've ran into situations where my final destination is on "X" street, and of course... some construction that day or they closed if off because Con-Ed is working on a manhole. But had I gone yesterday, it would of been open, but yet had I gone yesterday AS AN INTENTION, it would of been closed off... see where I'm coming from. Can never win in NYC traffic. Always some hurdle to tackle. Never point A to point B without some bs.

Its the twilight zone some days.

Honorable mention to double parked trucks. Always double parked on every damn street. And they always seem to stop right in front of you and put their blinkers on.

You can't have a NYC traffic experience without running into 10000+ double parked trucks on your route. If one is driving in Brooklyn, there's a good chance that if your driving behind a truck, IT WILL STOP to double park, and than your forced to go on the left, but no one will let you go, and so your stuck there for 5 minutes.

Not to mention the traffic lights, which have horrific times. Turns green, 5 seconds later red. And you've moved 1 car length ahead in that time! Yay!!!

#struggle

this is pretty fb funny — country mouse on nj turnpike:

https://m.facebook.com/logged_out/wa...topic.php&_rdr
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  #211  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2019, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
This is true. Although it is 2019 and we have invented car mounts...podcasts + Netflix. If traffic is super sh*tty then it's very easy to follow the dialogue and catch a glimpse of Stranger Things.

But back to the other point: What percentage of people take commuter rail or subway in America? And of that percentage, what percentage actually have a seat? And of those that are fortunate enough to have a seat [beacuse they live in an exurban park n ride location], what percentage feel comfortable enough to not disturb other riders to pull out their tablet/laptop to send an email, or create a spreadsheet on excel?

An empty bus or commuter train, ok sure. I've done homework on Amtrak during college, but most office workers are commuting at peak travel times. Most people enjoy this time to say F' Off to their bosses and jam out with their Air Pods, checking IG, while tuning out the Riff Raff in the background.

I'm speaking from experience.

Back before most woke folk were born [The Year 2000!, lol -- Conan reference.] and it became #trendy, I was woke. Some would even say: super Woke. <--Hate to admit that. I'm less woke now because I enjoy the comfort of my own personal vehicle with my own climate control, with my own music/talk radio, with my own spacious comfortable seat, with my own safety to be concerned with/of, etc etc etc., I can send and receive texts/calls now via Bluetooth --

Back in the good ol' days, I didn't even own a car, I was restricted to the subway/train to go anywhere and everywhere. It sucked then and it sucks now, especially if you're a commuter that deals with the onslaught of the commuter crush. B.O. on the subway is a real issue. I have never once checked or responded to an email while standing shoulder to shoulder, hanging on for dear life to not knock over or fall on the grandma with 8 bags next to me.

One more thing, I've never once had to square up with some random warrior in my car, on the train/subway, yes a few times -- and for no reason.
Though if we are talking about the people using those mega-freeways we're picturing on here to commute, generally a crowded, stinky, sketchy subway is not an alternative commuting option for them anyway. They're commuting to or from or both, areas that don't have that type of service. (And inner city residents where subways exist typically don't use or have mega-freeways as commuting options.)

If the mega-freeway users are lucky (and most of them probably are not) they might have some type of commuter rail service that is not likely to be a crowded, unpleasant socio-economic and aesthetic experience. Though yes it's true it's probably not a practical option for most of these drivers. Either that or they have some type of express bus service that's available to them but it's probably going to be stuck in the same traffic jams that all those drivers are.
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  #212  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2019, 1:38 PM
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2013 Census data: More than 85% of U.S. workers aged 16+ commute to work by car, most of them alone. Only 5.2% of workers use public transportation to get to work

*Since 2013, transit stats increased/peaked around 2014-2015 and then declined, so these stats are a bit dated, but fairly accurate*




Very few people commute by subway or commuter rail. Here's Q42018 commuter rail numbers:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...s_by_ridership

2017: only 7.6 million Americans commuted by public transit, a decrease of 12,000 from 2016. 2017 there were more "telecommuters" - work from home - than public transit riders.
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  #213  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2019, 1:46 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
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^ streetcar era aside, we used to have real regular daily commuter rail service on a line from cleveland to youngstown, but it all went south in the early 1980s along with the heavy industry.
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  #214  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2019, 3:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
2013 Census data: More than 85% of U.S. workers aged 16+ commute to work by car, most of them alone. Only 5.2% of workers use public transportation to get to work
That's the whole point. The U.S., speaking very generally, has terrible urban landscapes in part because of extreme auto orientation. Given that high car usage is incompatible with urbanity, our landscapes generally suck.
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  #215  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2019, 3:36 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
Very few people commute by subway or commuter rail.
Because very few American cities have adequate rail systems. In places that have comprehensive rail systems, rail is as critical commuting as highways.
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  #216  
Old Posted Aug 3, 2019, 4:36 AM
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Originally Posted by edale View Post
In my opinion, that is rude. There's a guy who I sometimes see on the bus and he's always talking loudly on his work calls as if the whole bus was his office. I cannot stand him.

I much prefer taking transit to and from work. I can read, nap, listen to music (through headphones), people watch...whatever. But driving also has its perks. You can listen to music as loud as you want and sing along. Talking on the phone, be it for a personal call or a 'telecon' is another thing more appropriate for driving, imo.
Well of course if I'll be presenting at the telecon I won't do it on the bus since that's not the best way to present slides... but usually I'm listening on headset / following the slides on my phone and ocassionally asking/answering a question. It would be impossible to call while driving/biking since how are you going to follow the slides?
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  #217  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2019, 12:30 AM
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That's the whole point. The U.S., speaking very generally, has terrible urban landscapes in part because of extreme auto orientation. Given that high car usage is incompatible with urbanity, our landscapes generally suck.
Your opinion is subjective of course. However, Americans don't desire to live a European lifestyle, one that inhabits ancient cities and regions, where the peasants were forced to live a certain way by the state. Americans have constantly proven so, by choosing to live where they do and have continued to live this way, despite what you may prefer.

It is what it is. We have the space and the means to live this way. Europeans do not.
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  #218  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2019, 12:31 AM
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Because very few American cities have adequate rail systems. In places that have comprehensive rail systems, rail is as critical commuting as highways.
If you build it they will come?
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  #219  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2019, 12:44 AM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
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If you build it they will come?
It worked for freeways...
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  #220  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2019, 12:59 AM
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It worked for freeways...
Did it?

Phoenix would be a good case study. They refused to build freeway to avoid becoming a new Los Angeles. What happened? The arterials became so congested that they were forced to build freeways 20-30 years late.
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