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  #2821  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2018, 6:56 PM
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Originally Posted by EastSideHBG View Post
This area is starting to boom again but my oh my is the traffic in the area awful. As soon as you get off of many of the main arteries you can come across some roads that are not only small and not built for large volumes but oddly shaped intersections so without a total overhaul not much you will be able to do.
And there is the rub. Even though these developments are more dense than the philly area suburban standard you are still stuck with the congestion and lack of transit access in most cases. Almost all new suburban development should be clustered near stations.
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  #2822  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2018, 1:30 AM
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I am currently in Tysons, VA for the Android Summit Conference, and I have to say, Wilmington should look at how Tysons has become so successful. For comparison, Tysons has a much smaller population than Wilmington, but everywhere I look, there are brand new skyscrapers that are either under construction or newly build. Most of them are corporations and the rest are residential and hotels. Compared to Wilmington, we are not getting corporations and while we are getting some development, its just a bunch of low-rise and mid-rise apartments and hotels. I get that there isn't demand for skyscrapers right now, but how is Wilmington not as successful as Tysons and why isn't there demand for offices in Wilmington and when will Wilmington see corporations and skyscrapers again?







I have to admit. I am a skyscraper enthusiast, and looking at all of these projects in Tysons especially considering Tysons's size is making me jealous and thinking "Why not Wilmington?". I hope I'm not being annoying, I just want to know more about urban planning and how you can get corporations and skyscrapers.
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  #2823  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2018, 1:47 AM
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Originally Posted by jonesrmj View Post
I am currently in Tysons, VA for the Android Summit Conference, and I have to say, Wilmington should look at how Tysons has become so successful. For comparison, Tysons has a much smaller population than Wilmington, but everywhere I look, there are brand new skyscrapers that are either under construction or newly build. Most of them are corporations and the rest are residential and hotels. Compared to Wilmington, we are not getting corporations and while we are getting some development, its just a bunch of low-rise and mid-rise apartments and hotels. I get that there isn't demand for skyscrapers right now, but how is Wilmington not as successful as Tysons and why isn't there demand for offices in Wilmington and when will Wilmington see corporations and skyscrapers again?

I have to admit. I am a skyscraper enthusiast, and looking at all of these projects in Tysons especially considering Tysons's size is making me jealous and thinking "Why not Wilmington?". I hope I'm not being annoying, I just want to know more about urban planning and how you can get corporations and skyscrapers.
Tyson’s big draw is its proximity to DC and it’s increasingly large pool of human capital. While the city itself may be smaller than Wilmington, it’s still pulling from a massive metro area and is quickly becoming one of the major tech hubs in the country. Due to the cost/limitations of building close in to DC proper, companies are increasingly setting up shop there (see: Capital One’s big building/campus, which is frequently visited by those working out of their suburban Richmond HQ). It’s a nightmare traveling in the area (I have close friends who live near there and I hear horror stories constantly), but it’s accessible via the Metro and is very close to Dulles, which is a massive airport.

Wilmington has a loooooong way to go to be able to compete at this scale. Also, understand that this area is basically being built from scratch and isn’t exactly a walkable, unique area one would want to live. The Virginia side of the DC region doesn’t have a ton of charm save for a few of the older, more established (and very un-skyscraper friendly) areas.
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  #2824  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2018, 2:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jonesrmj View Post
I have to admit. I am a skyscraper enthusiast, and looking at all of these projects in Tysons especially considering Tysons's size is making me jealous and thinking "Why not Wilmington?". I hope I'm not being annoying, I just want to know more about urban planning and how you can get corporations and skyscrapers.
Have you considered moving out of Wilmington? Serious question. Wilmington is never going to be what you want it to be.
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  #2825  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2018, 3:21 PM
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Market Street, Wilmington looks so much better than even 5 years ago. The Riverfront is booming. Be happy that Wilmington is slowly moving in the right direction.
A new brewery - Wilmington Brew Works, and Brewpub - Stitch House recently opened. New restaurants on Market Street are also opening. The luxury apt building downtown is open, the luxury project near Trolley Square/PA Avenue will be completed soon.

If anything Wilmington could market itself better. It essentially is a smaller Baltimore or Philly, with all of the same architecture and similar histories, just on a much smaller scale. Hell, Bob Marley lived in Wilmington for a long time--most people don't know this. When a global figure/icon calls your city home it should be a big deal, and draw some tourism (for a small city).

If I was the mayor, I'd do everything I could to get Dogfish Head to build a brewpub/brewery in the city -- whether it be downtown or the Riverfront. Beer nerds literally make pilgrimages from all over the USA to DFH's brewery and brewpub and motel at the Delaware Beaches. Wilmington should've tapped into this a long time ago.

I think what I'm getting at is the perception. If Wilmington is known or seems cooler to the outsider, and safer! ...everything else will fall into place from a business standpoint.
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  #2826  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2018, 5:06 PM
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Market Street, Wilmington looks so much better than even 5 years ago. The Riverfront is booming. Be happy that Wilmington is slowly moving in the right direction.
A new brewery - Wilmington Brew Works, and Brewpub - Stitch House recently opened. New restaurants on Market Street are also opening. The luxury apt building downtown is open, the luxury project near Trolley Square/PA Avenue will be completed soon.

If anything Wilmington could market itself better. It essentially is a smaller Baltimore or Philly, with all of the same architecture and similar histories, just on a much smaller scale. Hell, Bob Marley lived in Wilmington for a long time--most people don't know this. When a global figure/icon calls your city home it should be a big deal, and draw some tourism (for a small city).

If I was the mayor, I'd do everything I could to get Dogfish Head to build a brewpub/brewery in the city -- whether it be downtown or the Riverfront. Beer nerds literally make pilgrimages from all over the USA to DFH's brewery and brewpub and motel at the Delaware Beaches. Wilmington should've tapped into this a long time ago.

I think what I'm getting at is the perception. If Wilmington is known or seems cooler to the outsider, and safer! ...everything else will fall into place from a business standpoint.
Great description - I've had the same thoughts on bringing Dogfish Head to Wilmington. Wilmington needs an identity and Dogfish is one of those things that is distinctly Delaware. I'm guessing BPG has tried but hell that's one example that would be a catalyst for beer tourism and if that was on Market street, it'd be busy all hours (including the needed weekends).
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  #2827  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2018, 8:09 PM
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Have you considered moving out of Wilmington? Serious question. Wilmington is never going to be what you want it to be.
How would Wilmington never be what I want it to be. All what I want Wilmington to be is what it was back in the 1940s till 2000 when it had a population of 114k, many corporations, skyscraper development, less crime, a likable place, growing population, and for it to be like a Tysons, but also with things to do and have things to attract tourists in addition to the corporations. So basically, I want Wilmington to be like its past. And I mean think about it. Wouldn't it be awesome if we could discuss "Wow, so and so corporation is coming to Wilmington". and, "A skyscraper complex with office, residential, and mixed-use is under construction", and, "look at the population soar, etc!" ??? I get that Wilmington can not be all rainbows and sunshine, but I want it to be successful, and given its past, it has potential.
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  #2828  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2018, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jonesrmj View Post
How would Wilmington never be what I want it to be. All what I want Wilmington to be is what it was back in the 1940s till 2000 when it had a population of 114k, many corporations, skyscraper development, less crime, a likable place, growing population, and for it to be like a Tysons, but also with things to do and have things to attract tourists in addition to the corporations. So basically, I want Wilmington to be like its past. And I mean think about it. Wouldn't it be awesome if we could discuss "Wow, so and so corporation is coming to Wilmington". and, "A skyscraper complex with office, residential, and mixed-use is under construction", and, "look at the population soar, etc!" ??? I get that Wilmington can not be all rainbows and sunshine, but I want it to be successful, and given its past, it has potential.
There's a reason why we have the phrase "They didn't build Rome in a day." These things take time. The kinds of things that you're talking about simply take a long time to achieve. Wilmington has a unique set of problems and history that make it uncomparable to places like Tysons, which has a very different history. Edge cities like Tyson's are blank slates and don't have to deal with aging infrastructure, brownfields, and crime. It makes it very easy to develop the land, allowing those places to grow quickly because developers don't want to deal with those problems. Take solace in the fact that progress is happening in Wilmington, and it's location at the very midpoint of New York and DC - probably the wealthiest and most influential 200 mile straight line in the world - make long-term growth and prosperity almost certain. Most of us think that Wilmington is turning the corner, but we realize that economic development and rebuilding a postindustrial city takes a long time. And I don't mean just mean 10 years, I mean 50. If you're lucky, you're young enough to watch that growth for most of your life and look back can look back and think "Wow Wilmington has come a long way." Good things are happening. There's no reason to be feeling negative about Wilmington.

Last edited by Urbanthusiat; Aug 17, 2018 at 12:57 PM.
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  #2829  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2018, 12:35 PM
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Just to clarify a few things, Wilmington hasn’t had a population anywhere near 100,000 since the mid-1950s. The population has been 70-72,000 since the 1980 census.
And this makes perfect sense, none of the North Wilmington-Hockessin suburbs were built until the 1960s. Wilmington, like Philly, Baltimore, other northeast cities saw dramatic levels of “white flight” from middle-working class neighborhoods in the late 60s thru 1980s. Wilmington was an occupied city in 1968 following the MLK riots (literally, the national guard on street corners in Jeeps for 9 months). Most people who had the means to leave the city for the newly built suburbs did so (my parents did), and never returned.
But Wilmington does have a lot of positives and possibilities— just don’t be so naive to deny its recent history and some of obstacles it faces. About 28% of the current population lives in severe poverty. One step at a time.
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  #2830  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2018, 4:24 PM
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And there is the rub. Even though these developments are more dense than the philly area suburban standard you are still stuck with the congestion and lack of transit access in most cases. Almost all new suburban development should be clustered near stations.
Very true. But in many cases there isn't even the option to do this. Case in point, I drove by this site and it really struck me how massive this is going to be and how many more cars it's going to add to the already gridlocked Germantown Pike (and then dump on to the much smaller roads that are already a mess):

https://montco.today/2018/05/ground-...ry-apartments/

https://www.residencesatbentwood.com/

I really enjoy this part of the metro and it has a lot to offer and the infill is great but there has to be some better planning.
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  #2831  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2018, 5:04 PM
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Very true. But in many cases there isn't even the option to do this. Case in point, I drove by this site and it really struck me how massive this is going to be and how many more cars it's going to add to the already gridlocked Germantown Pike (and then dump on to the much smaller roads that are already a mess):

https://montco.today/2018/05/ground-...ry-apartments/

https://www.residencesatbentwood.com/

I really enjoy this part of the metro and it has a lot to offer and the infill is great but there has to be some better planning.
I really wish mall owners would step up thier game with these types of developments. I live near Neshaminy and Oxford Valley, both areas could easily absorb this volume of congestion, both have lost major anchor tenants in the past few years, and the housing/apartment market is hot in both areas. I know it’s a massive investment, but it seems like a no brainer. The infrastructure is already there.
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  #2832  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2018, 9:26 PM
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There's a reason why we have the phrase "They didn't build Rome in a day." These things take time. The kinds of things that you're talking about simply take a long time to achieve. Wilmington has a unique set of problems and history that make it uncomparable to places like Tysons, which has a very different history. Edge cities like Tyson's are blank slates and don't have to deal with aging infrastructure, brownfields, and crime. It makes it very easy to develop the land, allowing those places to grow quickly because developers don't want to deal with those problems. Take solace in the fact that progress is happening in Wilmington, and it's location at the very midpoint of New York and DC - probably the wealthiest and most influential 200 mile straight line in the world - make long-term growth and prosperity almost certain. Most of us think that Wilmington is turning the corner, but we realize that economic development and rebuilding a postindustrial city takes a long time. And I don't mean just mean 10 years, I mean 50. If you're lucky, you're young enough to watch that growth for most of your life and look back can look back and think "Wow Wilmington has come a long way." Good things are happening. There's no reason to be feeling negative about Wilmington.
Right. I'm very pleased with the positive changes in Wilmington over the last 5-10 years. But if skyscrapers along the lines of Tyson Corner is the desire and hope, that is years -- if not decades -- away.
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  #2833  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2018, 5:50 AM
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Great description - I've had the same thoughts on bringing Dogfish Head to Wilmington. Wilmington needs an identity and Dogfish is one of those things that is distinctly Delaware. I'm guessing BPG has tried but hell that's one example that would be a catalyst for beer tourism and if that was on Market street, it'd be busy all hours (including the needed weekends).
Dogfish likes the beach, I doubt it would every consider pulling out of the Delaware resort area (Restaurant - Rehoboth, Motel - Lewes, Brewery in Milton) Wilmington doesn't have the beach, so it has to find its way elsewise. It will have to do its best to attract restaurants, bars and other entertainment to get more people willing to regularly visit and move into the city.

That being said it has plenty of potential, commercial office space is cheaper than Philly, NYC or DC. Residential costs are comparatively cheaper than Philly (per the amenities, if you were to live in something like the new Residences at Midtown Park inside Philly it'd be close to a grand more for the location and perks) and the cities proximity to other major cities. I always wondered if it should market itself to New Yorkers better, you can get a monthly pass on the acela for about $1,300.00 which is a 1 hour 20 min ride. (If you're familiar with commuting into NYC, an hour and twenty is not uncommon) yet you'd save tons of money for a higher quality of living. The rent you pay in Wilmington for a luxury apartment is significantly cheaper than the NYC metro area, then the taxes, even with a $1,300.00 monthly train pass it's much cheaper.

I'm rambling at this point, but I do agree it needs to market itself better to attract the right businesses and residents.
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  #2834  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2018, 3:30 PM
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Dogfish likes the beach, I doubt it would every consider pulling out of the Delaware resort area (Restaurant - Rehoboth, Motel - Lewes, Brewery in Milton) Wilmington doesn't have the beach, so it has to find its way elsewise. It will have to do its best to attract restaurants, bars and other entertainment to get more people willing to regularly visit and move into the city.
I think he meant more supplementing what they have at the beach...not getting rid of their presence there. It’s a great idea, they already are a staple Delaware beer, this would just solidify that fact. It would be cool if there was a Wilmington Dogfish Head brewpub or something along those lines.
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  #2835  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2018, 3:41 PM
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I think he meant more supplementing what they have at the beach...not getting rid of their presence there. It’s a great idea, they already are a staple Delaware beer, this would just solidify that fact. It would be cool if there was a Wilmington Dogfish Head brewpub or something along those lines.
^Correct. There are DFH Alehouses in the Northern VA area. Wilmington should have one of those, over northern VA.
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  #2836  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2018, 6:15 PM
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Dogfish likes the beach, I doubt it would every consider pulling out of the Delaware resort area (Restaurant - Rehoboth, Motel - Lewes, Brewery in Milton) Wilmington doesn't have the beach, so it has to find its way elsewise. It will have to do its best to attract restaurants, bars and other entertainment to get more people willing to regularly visit and move into the city.

That being said it has plenty of potential, commercial office space is cheaper than Philly, NYC or DC. Residential costs are comparatively cheaper than Philly (per the amenities, if you were to live in something like the new Residences at Midtown Park inside Philly it'd be close to a grand more for the location and perks) and the cities proximity to other major cities. I always wondered if it should market itself to New Yorkers better, you can get a monthly pass on the acela for about $1,300.00 which is a 1 hour 20 min ride. (If you're familiar with commuting into NYC, an hour and twenty is not uncommon) yet you'd save tons of money for a higher quality of living. The rent you pay in Wilmington for a luxury apartment is significantly cheaper than the NYC metro area, then the taxes, even with a $1,300.00 monthly train pass it's much cheaper.

I'm rambling at this point, but I do agree it needs to market itself better to attract the right businesses and residents.
I think DFH could make a restaurant or something work on the Riverfront.

Re: NYC, I’m not sure it would sell to many people. A one bed “luxury” near the train station is around $1500 last time I checked, which means you’re paying $2800/mo in rent and commuting with a fraction of the cultural amenities in NYC. You’d probably want a car if you lived in Wilmington just for everyday errands and whatnot, so that (plus possibly parking) is an added expense. And you may still get taxed on NYC income.

There are some who do it, but IME it seems like they’re usually very high-income earners with some other reason to live in DE besides cost-saving.
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  #2837  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2018, 10:43 PM
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I think DFH could make a restaurant or something work on the Riverfront.

Re: NYC, I’m not sure it would sell to many people. A one bed “luxury” near the train station is around $1500 last time I checked, which means you’re paying $2800/mo in rent and commuting with a fraction of the cultural amenities in NYC. You’d probably want a car if you lived in Wilmington just for everyday errands and whatnot, so that (plus possibly parking) is an added expense. And you may still get taxed on NYC income.

There are some who do it, but IME it seems like they’re usually very high-income earners with some other reason to live in DE besides cost-saving.
Idk, I knew people who commuted from DE to DC to save (2 hours each way), and yes you would have to pay the NYC city wage tax (lower than Philly's btw) but you can avoid the NYS income tax by staying out of the state fo 6 months and one day. And I know plenty of people in banking and law whose employers let them work from home 2-3 days a week. If you stayed out of NYS on weekends and an additional 2 days from home a week, you're safe. And I would still argue, what you get in Wilmington for the price vs what you would pay in NYC for the same is a huge difference. $1,500 a month is not much when you could be paying 3,500.00 w/o parking plus a 9% income tax (even with a 1,300 monthly train pass). On top of that, you can get a luxury one bedroom in Wilmington for less, Christina Tower is around $1,400.00 for a one bedroom, and the new residences at midtown park start around $1,300 for a one bedroom.

I agree the restaurant could work but you could make the same argument for any of the resort restaurants (acknowledging Bigfish for having a location on the riverfront) Bethany Blues, Agave, Fins, Po Boys, Fish On......any of those places would supplement Wilmington but I think some of those places like being specifically a "beach" destination. I know Bigfish Group has multiple places in Wilmington in addition to the beach but under different names (Mikimotos, Trolley Square Oyster House) and I know Taco Grande (riverfront) is them....if it ever opens.

Also I'm curious what people think, where should they go if they opened up here hypothetically, the riverfront or market street? What is better for Wilmington?

Last edited by Slyfox; Aug 19, 2018 at 10:57 PM.
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  #2838  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2018, 1:01 PM
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Idk, I knew people who commuted from DE to DC to save (2 hours each way), and yes you would have to pay the NYC city wage tax (lower than Philly's btw) but you can avoid the NYS income tax by staying out of the state fo 6 months and one day. And I know plenty of people in banking and law whose employers let them work from home 2-3 days a week. If you stayed out of NYS on weekends and an additional 2 days from home a week, you're safe. And I would still argue, what you get in Wilmington for the price vs what you would pay in NYC for the same is a huge difference. $1,500 a month is not much when you could be paying 3,500.00 w/o parking plus a 9% income tax (even with a 1,300 monthly train pass). On top of that, you can get a luxury one bedroom in Wilmington for less, Christina Tower is around $1,400.00 for a one bedroom, and the new residences at midtown park start around $1,300 for a one bedroom.

I agree the restaurant could work but you could make the same argument for any of the resort restaurants (acknowledging Bigfish for having a location on the riverfront) Bethany Blues, Agave, Fins, Po Boys, Fish On......any of those places would supplement Wilmington but I think some of those places like being specifically a "beach" destination. I know Bigfish Group has multiple places in Wilmington in addition to the beach but under different names (Mikimotos, Trolley Square Oyster House) and I know Taco Grande (riverfront) is them....if it ever opens.

Also I'm curious what people think, where should they go if they opened up here hypothetically, the riverfront or market street? What is better for Wilmington?
If they would have opened up in the Stitch House location that would've fast-forwarded Market Street revitalization by a couple of years. Stitch House is great for Wilmington but isn't a destination like DFH would be.
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  #2839  
Old Posted Aug 20, 2018, 10:42 PM
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I think DFH could make a restaurant or something work on the Riverfront.

Re: NYC, I’m not sure it would sell to many people. A one bed “luxury” near the train station is around $1500 last time I checked, which means you’re paying $2800/mo in rent and commuting with a fraction of the cultural amenities in NYC. You’d probably want a car if you lived in Wilmington just for everyday errands and whatnot, so that (plus possibly parking) is an added expense. And you may still get taxed on NYC income.

There are some who do it, but IME it seems like they’re usually very high-income earners with some other reason to live in DE besides cost-saving.

For people who already live in NYC/Manhattan I doubt you'd find many who would accept your calculus, but maybe for those who live in northern NJ and are already dealing with a large commute it might make sense. Better to be on Amtrak then to be packed into NJ transit, especially when there's issues in the tunnel. I wonder if a developer could/would offer a reduced monthly Amtrak pass instead of throwing in other goodies to get someone to sign a lease------
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  #2840  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2018, 2:25 AM
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There are some big projects moving forward in Phoenixville.

Reps from Rockwell Development Group have been working to get entitlements for "French Creek West" which is on the for Phoenix Steel site opposite of Toll Brother's Riverworks. This particular plan is for 240 apartment units and 311 townhouses and stacked townhouses, however I believe it has since been tweaked. There will also be public parking, improvements to the Schuylkill River Trail, some public open space, a vehicular connection to Paradise street off of the west end of the site, and a pedestrian bridge over French Creek connecting to Bridge Street. It'd be a substantial investment, but probably one that will make a lot of money.



More info: https://sites.google.com/site/pxvgre...nch-creek-west

Barclay Garden's was recently approved to begin construction. It'll be 125 age-restricted apartments on the former Borough Hall site. It's right off Bridge Street so this should add more pedestrians.



Site: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1331...7i13312!8i6656

Bonus: The planning commission's August 2018 agenda references "Demolition of all existing structures and construction of a mixed-use development with rear parking." at 348-370 Bridge Street. I imagine some sort of residential over a floor or two of retail/office. That's the current site of Stable 12 Brewing Company. So if this goes through, either they'll be moving somewhere else soon, or temporarily relocated and take up space in the new building - which would be pretty cool.

Site: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1329...7i13312!8i6656

I'm surprised there hasn't been a major hotel project done here yet this cycle. I think it'd do well.

Last edited by Urbanthusiat; Aug 21, 2018 at 2:41 AM.
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