HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #16221  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2012, 7:47 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
While the rendering of this renovation looks great, I'm not looking forward to yet another vintage commercial sign being lost from the streetscape.
I don't get it, the building looks better now.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16222  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2012, 7:48 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
Yeah, this is pretty inexcusable. I seriously don't know what this city is thinking sometimes. This site should be zoned for a minimum of 10 floors with a requirement of an integrated station entrance. This proposal is absurd. I think what is holding back more ambitious requirements for high density TOD is this notion locally that there is no precedent for buildings above 4 stories in outlying Chicago, even adjacent to L stations. This phony "confort zone" mentality needs to be flushed down the drain. The city is squandering site after site on low density developments that blow the very advantage of being a stones throw from a rail station and/or intersection of numerous bus routes.

It's been said on here before, but I believe Chicago needs to move aggressively towards a Toronto model, with midrises >6 stories and even high rises <25 stories spread about the city other than the concentration on the core and along the lakefront.
Baby steps at least, it is probably a 7-11 with a parking lot now...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16223  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2012, 8:30 PM
a chicago bearcat's Avatar
a chicago bearcat a chicago bearcat is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
I don't get it, the building looks better now.
agreed, I'd like an explanation about what is wrong with the current masonry. It doesn't make much sense for an owner to make his building more bland and less attractive unless the current facade has structural issues.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16224  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2012, 8:37 PM
a chicago bearcat's Avatar
a chicago bearcat a chicago bearcat is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlajos View Post
Baby steps at least, it is probably a 7-11 with a parking lot now...
If we're talking about the site at Cortland and Western, it is a parking lot, with no associated development. Still in need of a few more stories, since if we simply look across the street, we can can see three buildings with 4 floors, two of which have half floor basements as well. Meaning this could be a 5 floor project without being out of context with the other station adjacent development. Not to mention the other 4+ storey buildings along Milwaukee, both those southeast of Western, and the project at Armitage and Milwaukee. I will hope for another floor, and pray for 2.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16225  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2012, 9:18 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 21,375
^ The real tragedy is that this site is zoned RS-3 to begin with, at least according to Curbed Chicago.

I mean, it's ridiculous that a developer should have to seek a zoning change to build what is appropriate for this site.
__________________
Supercar Adventures is my YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4W...lUKB1w8ED5bV2Q
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16226  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2012, 9:40 PM
ChiTownCity ChiTownCity is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Chicago, USA
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
Yeah, this is pretty inexcusable. I seriously don't know what this city is thinking sometimes. This site should be zoned for a minimum of 10 floors with a requirement of an integrated station entrance. This proposal is absurd. I think what is holding back more ambitious requirements for high density TOD is this notion locally that there is no precedent for buildings above 4 stories in outlying Chicago, even adjacent to L stations. This phony "confort zone" mentality needs to be flushed down the drain. The city is squandering site after site on low density developments that blow the very advantage of being a stones throw from a rail station and/or intersection of numerous bus routes.

It's been said on here before, but I believe Chicago needs to move aggressively towards a Toronto model, with midrises >6 stories and even high rises <25 stories spread about the city other than the concentration on the core and along the lakefront.
Why is this city so strict about that 4 story ceiling in the neighborhoods? I know its a part of the zoning code, but why do projects in the hoods get downsized to 4 floors from so much as 5-6 story proposals so often? This is something that really irks me and I've seen it time and time again....
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16227  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2012, 9:51 PM
Vlajos Vlajos is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,485
Quote:
Originally Posted by a chicago bearcat View Post
If we're talking about the site at Cortland and Western, it is a parking lot, with no associated development. Still in need of a few more stories, since if we simply look across the street, we can can see three buildings with 4 floors, two of which have half floor basements as well. Meaning this could be a 5 floor project without being out of context with the other station adjacent development. Not to mention the other 4+ storey buildings along Milwaukee, both those southeast of Western, and the project at Armitage and Milwaukee. I will hope for another floor, and pray for 2.
I agree
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16228  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2012, 10:09 PM
jpIllInoIs's Avatar
jpIllInoIs jpIllInoIs is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,212
Motorola Mobility leaving Libertyville for Merchandise Mart

Sun Times.BY SANDRA GUY Business Reporter July 26, 2012 3:16PM

Motorola Mobility will move its Libertyville headquarters — and 3,000 workers — to downtown Chicago, taking the top four floors and rooftop of the Merchandise Mart and becoming the landmark building’s largest tenant with 600,000 square feet, Motorola Mobility CEO Dennis Woodside and Mayor Rahm Emanuel announced Thursday...

Motorola Mobility will join 1871, the Chicagoland Entrepreneurial Center’s 50,000-square-foot incubator for technology startups, and tech-related companies such as Allscripts and Razorfish in the Merchandise Mart, creating what Emanuel termed a “tech campus” for the city.

Mobility will be the driver in making Chicago “the digital capital of the Midwest,” Emanuel said....

Mobility also will move into the Mart 130 design and marketing employees who now work at 233 N. Michigan Ave.

.....Of the Mart, Woodside said, “You walk into that building and there is energy — all kinds of places to eat, the train coming right in there, the train station across the river.”

Since many Mobility workers will now commute by train instead of car, Woodside said, “We wanted people to be able to use the train time productively, and all that worked at the Mart.”

Woodside, who works out of California and was previously president of Google’s Americas region, said Mobility executives believed that the company needed the access to talent and ideas that a major city such as Chicago affords, as well as easy access to universities, public transportation and the buzzing energy of commuters, residents, tourists, office workers and others using smartphones as they walk down the street.

“We have the opportunity to create a tech innovator in the middle of the country that draws from people who are graduating from the University of Illinois, the University of Chicago, Northwestern, Michigan, Wisconsin and others — and who don’t want to have to work on the coasts to work in high tech,” Woodside said. “They want to stay home.”
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16229  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2012, 12:18 AM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is online now
Show me the blueprints
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the artistic spectrum
Posts: 10,356
^One of the best stories of the year! Awesome news!

The tide is really turning on the whole urban/suburban office debate. This generation WANTS to be in a vibrant city not in some autosewer hellscape surrounded by styrofoam shopping centers and plastic houses.
__________________
Everything new is old again

There is no goodness in him, and his power to convince people otherwise is beyond understanding
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16230  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2012, 12:48 AM
Ch.G, Ch.G's Avatar
Ch.G, Ch.G Ch.G, Ch.G is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,138
FYI guys: We have a thread to discuss Chicago economic/financial news.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...144988&page=84
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16231  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2012, 2:40 AM
denizen467 denizen467 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,212
A ped bridge from Wolf Point to Hines's River Point is starting to look not just like a good idea, but a no brainer. Although the clash between Lake Street vehicle traffic (which will only grow) and commuters walking to Ogilvie/Union may remain an intractable problem. Given the imminent boom in office population at River Point, Wolf Point, Merch Mart, and who knows maybe some kind of redevelopment of the Apparel Mart down the road, it would be great to have an uninterrupted path under or over Lake Street and the Green Line.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16232  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2012, 3:05 AM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 16,368
Why is Lake St to be avoided like the plague? Similar volumes of traffic coexist with pedestrians at numerous Loop intersections.

Worst case scenario, the city puts rumble strips in to slow the traffic at Canal. Leading intervals for pedestrians are a no-brainer.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16233  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2012, 3:51 AM
Mr Downtown's Avatar
Mr Downtown Mr Downtown is offline
Urbane observer
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownCity View Post
Why is this city so strict about that 4 story ceiling in the neighborhoods?
I think it's more about the building code than the zoning code. Over five stories you have to build to the highrise code. At that point, you may as well go for views and higher unit prices.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16234  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2012, 4:17 AM
Standpoor's Avatar
Standpoor Standpoor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 188
^^
Exactly. That corner of downtown is desolate. There are huge chunks of time where only one person or less is waiting to cross Lake at Canal and they usually don't have to wait for the light because there is a significant break in traffic. Likewise, the sidewalks are large as well. The only thing that area is missing is people. Like a Sears tower size development.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16235  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2012, 5:28 AM
denizen467 denizen467 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,212
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Why is Lake St to be avoided like the plague? Similar volumes of traffic coexist with pedestrians at numerous Loop intersections.
Lake Street is completely different from the other east-west river crossings. First, the Lake Street bridge is the only two-way street among them, which mucks up intersections more than one-way streets. For example, even though there are 2 travel lanes westbound, the sharp right from Wacker onto Lake inevitably results in longer vehicles, or sloppy sedan drivers, taking a wide turn that asphyxiates the remaining lane. In the case of all the other crossings, a wide turn will still allow for flow to continue in the other lanes.

Second, Lake is the northernmost crossing on the South Branch, and most traffic heading to the West Loop from the entire River North and North Michigan Ave areas, in an effort to avoid the Loop proper during rush hour, will aim generally for either Kinzie (which can only handle limited volumes) or Wacker-then-Lake to cross the river.

Third, ped traffic between the train stations and the Loop proper has a range of blocks, as it travels between east and west, over which to redistribute itself northwards or southwards towards Ogilvie or Union. Moreover, many workers walk routes that are almost perfectly east-west without needing to cross northwards or southwards, because Ogilvie and Union afford entrances along many of the Loop's east-west streets. In sharp contrast, 100% of pedestrian traffic from River Point / Wolf Point / Merch Mart must cross Lake Street to get to any commuter rail station. Plus, this ped situation laid right on top of the vehicle issues described above at Lake result in a clumsy situation.

Naturally, amazement from my personal experience at the Lake Street bridge chokepoint is exacerbated by Wacker construction, so that will lessen come the end of 2012. But with increased office populations there from 2013 and mid-decade, I feel a bit sorry (ultimately what I mean is it will diminish the appeal for more companies to locate there) for the workers who'll be crossing 2 bridges and also dealing with chaotic traffic in horrible weather, not to mention people in taxicabs etc. barely inching along through there. We'll see, but I think that spot will be the weak link and some way around it will probably be desired by the landlords and tenants in the area. (It would be interesting to see how much simply making Lake one-way would address this.)

Last edited by denizen467; Jul 27, 2012 at 5:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16236  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2012, 6:42 AM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 16,368
Don't get me wrong; I'm (obviously) in support of the ped bridge.

Even without a new bridge, River Point will allow pedestrians to go north in a zigzag fashion from Lake to Kinzie without crossing the railroad tracks. Hopefully the riverwalk at Fulton House can be widened and the rickety old pier of the C&NW bridge filled in. I actually think Fulton House and the River Cottages are the stumbling block for Reilly... He doesn't want to lose those votes by ramming a public riverwalk past their private boat slips.

In other riverwalk news, West Bank Club has removed the gate that controls access to their river frontage, so it is now possible to walk freely between Kinzie and Grand at all times (unless the gate magically reappears at night or something).
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16237  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2012, 3:16 PM
SamInTheLoop SamInTheLoop is offline
you know where I'll be
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,543
Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ The real tragedy is that this site is zoned RS-3 to begin with, at least according to Curbed Chicago.

I mean, it's ridiculous that a developer should have to seek a zoning change to build what is appropriate for this site.


Couldn't agree more. Absolutely ridiculous. Apart from just some sort of huge specific oversight, I'm sure the answers lie in the political realm for the site's highly inappropriate zoning.

It speaks to Chicago's total lack of any sort of comprehensive approach to smart TOD (or urban planning in general!) when our expectations our so low that we start wishing for a 6-story building here instead of a 4-story building (when something probably doesen't approach true appropriateness - practically sitting on top of an L station - until being a significantly denser, and taller - 12-15+ stories project)
__________________
It's simple, really - try not to design or build trash.

Last edited by SamInTheLoop; Jul 27, 2012 at 4:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16238  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2012, 3:29 PM
emathias emathias is offline
Adoptive Chicagoan
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: River North, Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 5,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
...
In other riverwalk news, West Bank Club has removed the gate that controls access to their river frontage, so it is now possible to walk freely between Kinzie and Grand at all times (unless the gate magically reappears at night or something).
Is that some new competitor to the East Bank Club?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop View Post
Couldn't agree more. Absolutely ridiculous. Apart from just some sort of huge specific oversight, I'm sure the answers lie in the political realm for the site's highly inappropriate zoning.

It speaks to Chicago's total lack of any sort of comprehensive approach to smart TOD when our expectations our so low that we start wishing for a 6-story building here instead of a 4-story building (when something probably doesen't approach true appropriateness - practically sitting on top of an L station - until being a significantly denser, and taller - 12-15+ stories - project)
I thought Rahm would include this in his list of urbanity that Chicago needs to get on top of?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16239  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2012, 3:32 PM
emathias emathias is offline
Adoptive Chicagoan
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: River North, Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 5,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by denizen467 View Post
A ped bridge from Wolf Point to Hines's River Point is starting to look not just like a good idea, but a no brainer. Although the clash between Lake Street vehicle traffic (which will only grow) and commuters walking to Ogilvie/Union may remain an intractable problem. Given the imminent boom in office population at River Point, Wolf Point, Merch Mart, and who knows maybe some kind of redevelopment of the Apparel Mart down the road, it would be great to have an uninterrupted path under or over Lake Street and the Green Line.
I'll once again point out that an actualy road bridge extending the Mart drive to Canal and points west over the railroad tracks would have been a good long-term plan, if the City were into long-term plans.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16240  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2012, 6:27 PM
Standpoor's Avatar
Standpoor Standpoor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 188
Lake Street is underutilized. Its pedestrian counts are ridiculously low and the traffic counts are low but not significantly below the other East/West streets. Some bridges see pedestrian counts equal to Lake Street in fifteen minutes during the afternoon rush. Granted those bridges only see one way traffic/pedestrians without a lot of crossing but I think that the area can absorb the increase in both pedestrians and traffic with slight improvements, even though a pedestrian bridge or a fully complete riverwalk would be nice.

Weekday Bridge Pedestrian Counts 2007

Lake –N 2,262
Lake –S 2,855
Randolph – N 4,215
Randolph – S 7,526
Washington –N 4,898
Washington –S 6,653
Madison – N 26,950
Madison – S 17,037
Monroe – N 14,066
Monroe – S Closed
Adams – N 12,423
Adams – S 29,336
Jackson – N 16,658
Jackson –S 7,858

Traffic Counts

355 w. lake street 15,000
400 w. Randolph 18000
410 w. Madison 17100
390 w. Monroe 16000
Adams 14300

Pedestrian Source
Traffic Source
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > General Development
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 4:11 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.