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  #20361  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2013, 7:58 PM
Marcu Marcu is offline
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Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
For anybody who is a resident of, or a frequenter of Chinatown, I urge you to fill out the survey on this page. It looks like a development plan for Chinatown will be hashed out and anybody (hopefully those familiar with Chinatown) can give their thoughts:

http://www.cmap.illinois.gov/lta/chinatown

I filled it out answering "more density", "more residential development", and "more nightlife" throughout to survey. I suggest everyone here do the same before the remaining parcels in Chinatown within walking distance of the el get turned into park space.
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  #20362  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2013, 8:16 PM
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http://oururbantimes.com/preservatio...ct-wicker-park

Developer seeks to demolish historic building in Milwaukee Ave. Landmark District in Wicker Park

By: Elaine Coorens

Date: 09/20/2013

Owner of the property at 1505 N. Milwaukee, Steve Lipe, Lipe Property Company, and his architect Brent Norsman, Norsman Architects, presented a proposal to the Wicker Park Committee's (WPC) Preservation and Development (P and D) Committee to demolish the building at 1501 N. Milwaukee Ave. in the Milwaukee Avenue Historic District at a meeting this week.
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  #20363  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2013, 8:29 PM
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^ the article title seems a little alarmist to me. according to google streetview, the existing building at 1501 N milwaukee looks pretty unspectacular. a very forgettable 2 story frame and clapboard building with too few windows along the honore st. elevation and a mangled storefront "modernization".

there are indeed many fantastic classic chicago style masonry commercial buildings in that stretch of milwaukee, but this building ain't one of them.
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  #20364  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2013, 8:45 PM
marothisu marothisu is offline
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Originally Posted by Marcu View Post
I filled it out answering "more density", "more residential development", and "more nightlife" throughout to survey. I suggest everyone here do the same before the remaining parcels in Chinatown within walking distance of the el get turned into park space.
Yeah, well it is a great area and should continue to develop. I haven't filled mine in yet, but I plan on touching on the nightlife part of it. The thing that is interesting is there's a bunch of restaurants/food places in Chinatown that stay open pretty late or are even 24 hours a few nights a week. I don't think a ton of people in town know this. If they put a few more bars/lounges, in the right manner, there, I think more people would come down and I think those restaurants would see even more business from that type of crowd. Of course you don't have to make it into Wrigleyville, but anybody familiar with what's going on in some parts of China and their scene right now knows there's some real good and nice bars/cocktail lounges in cities like Shanghai. There is a nice lounge there now called Lao You Ju, and I think more like that would be really cool in that area.

If there were some more great Chinese style bars (I only know of 2, maybe 3 in Chinatown), you bet your ass I would be down there more on the weekend evenings and being able to get good, cheap chinese food at 2am would just be icing on the cake for me after that.

I also think they could do more with some public spaces there like Ping Tom Park and the public area of Chinatown Square.
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  #20365  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2013, 10:46 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is online now
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
^ the article title seems a little alarmist to me. according to google streetview, the existing building at 1501 N milwaukee looks pretty unspectacular. a very forgettable 2 story frame and clapboard building with too few windows along the honore st. elevation and a mangled storefront "modernization".

there are indeed many fantastic classic chicago style masonry commercial buildings in that stretch of milwaukee, but this building ain't one of them.

beneath that vinyl siding the front looks pretty handsome, although i agree the side dosent do the street any favors.
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  #20366  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2013, 11:18 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
^ the article title seems a little alarmist to me. according to google streetview, the existing building at 1501 N milwaukee looks pretty unspectacular. a very forgettable 2 story frame and clapboard building with too few windows along the honore st. elevation and a mangled storefront "modernization".

there are indeed many fantastic classic chicago style masonry commercial buildings in that stretch of milwaukee, but this building ain't one of them.
I agree, the blurb I read on Curbed suggested that the building previously had a masonry storefront which I highly doubt. They said the accompanying historic photo from the 70s showed the original storefront, but to me it appeared to be faux brick tar shingle siding that was popular in the 60s and 70s. I would be shocked if they sided over brick or if this structure ever had any masonry features.

The new design is much more appealing to me with more urban design in the way it holds the corner and has a more open retail presence mat the base. Lipe is pretty well connected with the city and preservationists so I am surprised he is having any trouble with them on this.
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  #20367  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2013, 11:48 PM
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One of those cases where you pick your preservation battles. I see good buildings fall and no one seems to care, yet something like this gets a whole bunch of attention. It's a wood building modified beyond all recognition. Best to allow a newer building satisfy demand, but boost the vitality on a historic street. The existing is not brick. That parapet and crown would be a hell of a lot heftier in thickness if it was. The old photo is asphalt shingle nailed onto wood siding.
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  #20368  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2013, 2:48 AM
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Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
It does seem good that they do plan on including affordable housing rates as part of this too. Of course, this area's prices for apartments is not high to begin with, but still..
Anyone developing units in a lower-than-median-rent area might as well take the tax credits (and, I see, the tax-exempt multifamily revenue bonds) because it's free money for doing what you're already doing.

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Originally Posted by marothisu View Post
Yeah, well it is a great area and should continue to develop. I haven't filled mine in yet, but I plan on touching on the nightlife part of it. The thing that is interesting is there's a bunch of restaurants/food places in Chinatown that stay open pretty late or are even 24 hours a few nights a week. I don't think a ton of people in town know this.
A surprising number of the restaurants sell drinks at laughably low prices, although the atmosphere doesn't exactly say "bar/lounge." Most of the other restaurants allow BYOB, but there aren't liquor stores there.

I suspect that Chinese customers are more used to whiling away the evening over a banquet than at a lounge.
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  #20369  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2013, 3:16 AM
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Most of the other restaurants allow BYOB, but there aren't liquor stores there.
Not true. I know of a few liquor stores in Chinatown. I am pretty sure there's one in Chinatown Square itself.
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  #20370  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2013, 3:30 AM
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
I have a hard time listening to a single word out of the mouth of someone who implies Rahm is somehow motivated by defunding education and laying off teachers. Seriously, what an imbecile, no wonder no one is actually jumping on the anti-rahm bandwagon when his most prominent critics are so inarticulate in their case against him.

Does this author seriously believe that not spending money in a South Loop TIF will somehow be the savior of the CPS? Does he really believe that hiring more overpaid, surplus, CPS teachers will save the CPS? The most absurd comments in the article is where he says if CPS teachers "stick around long enough they can make close to $100k" (which by the way is inaccurate, many CPS teachers can make in excess of six figures especially when you take into account their obscene benefit package and the fact they get 25% of the year off) and then goes on to claim teachers are the "backbone of the middle class". I think the true members of the middle class might dispute the notion that a group of people who make $70k+ on average with massive benefits packages and 25% of the year off are in any way comparable when the median household income in the United States is a hair less than $50,000 and most of those households are now dual income homes. I don't see how one person making $70k a year can be described as "middle class".

But I digress as this discussion isn't about teachers and shouldn't be about teachers (which is the biggest mistake our author makes since people are simply sick of hearing the union boosters whine that they haven't been able to cockblock Rahms reforms), the debate should be about the economic impacts that this project will have on the city. The fact is 2,000 additional hotel rooms and a new multi-purpose arena are, unquestionably, going to have a positive economic impact on the neighborhood and, most likely, the entire region. How he can take himself seriously after claiming that a drive thru bank and a bunch of derelict, low intensity, storefronts are going to generate more economic activity and taxes than the proposed use is completely beyond me.

Finally, the vast majority of Chicagoans don't see this as a scandal so his inaccurate words fall on deaf ears. Why don't they see this as a scandal? Because it isn't. The City really has a minor role to play in these projects as it is primarily being driven and funded by McPier which is an entity created and empowered on the state level meaning it functions mainly independently from the city of Chicago. McPier has been pushing plans for additional hotels here for years and they have always been looking for ways to expand their conferencing amenities. The fact is this is not some conspiracy led by Rahm to take away poor teachers jobs so he can funnel the money to DePaul (sounds absurd when it is summarized doesn't it?). This is a logical expansion of McCormick Place driven at least 50% by an independent entity and, to a degree, by Rahm who wants to see the convention center and South Loop prosper. Any questions about the teachers and CPS are out of the picture. The CPS closings and reforms are just that, CPS closings and reforms that are badly needed and in no way linked to some kind of larger scheme to "get the unions" or something absurd like that.
Let me start by saying Ive already been resigned to the fact that, with the way this city works, the McPier development is neither a surprise nor is it truly concerning to me personally since I see it overall as beneficial. But I simply have to comment on your statements here.

The way you talk about school closings when the actual comparative savings is essentially peanuts, the accounting is fishy, and many lives are severely impacted by such a huge and nationally unprecedented decision, make you sound insensitive. People are clearly suspicious when its documented that hes pushing for charter schools. To top it off you make it sound as if CPS teachers are these uppity bullshit artists who are scheming to make hordes of money off of taxpayers. This is ridiculous. And comparing their salaries to the median household income, which includes those who never had a formal higher education, is lame and inconsistent. Please.

I do agree about the positive economic impact of the McPier development for the city, and don't necessarily feel it is a one or the other issue like its being portrayed, but you'd have to be completely oblivious to think that the TIF situation in this city is not being abused. You have to question why this fund isn't used for actually struggling areas, or barely stable areas, which is the way it was advertised originally. Its simply another power grab by the city in an area that is not struggling and doesn't necessarily need any revitalization, but can benefit certain interested and powerful groups. Even if in the grand scheme it should eventually have a positive impact on the entire city, why is it incomprehensible that it would rub people in other struggling communities, or regular old tax paying citizens, the wrong way?

And to think this isn't simply another scandal for Rahm in the public eye is being a little disingenuous. Rahms influence on this is unquestionable. The city is filing eminent domain to obtain the properties, do you think he doesn't have any involvement in this? Rahm is already becoming highly unpopular among blacks and Hispanics and some whites in this city, with his questionable moves not only with CPS, but the speeding/red light cameras, poor police public relations, the CTA/public transit attitude, and his apparent overall attitude toward working class people. Add this apparent power move, steamrolling residents etc, to the list.

Anyway, Im probably wasting time but I just had to respond to such gross one-sidedness (albeit in response to other gross one-sidedness). The point is, I think the anger about McPiers development is a little misplaced, but I totally understand it in the midst of some unpopular moves by this mayor, the corruption in use of TIF funds, and his apparent lack of any empathy for working people class in this city.

Last edited by Mr Roboto; Sep 24, 2013 at 3:42 AM.
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  #20371  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2013, 6:14 AM
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Rahm is already becoming highly unpopular among blacks and Hispanics and some whites in this city, with his questionable moves not only with CPS, but the speeding/red light cameras, poor police public relations, the CTA/public transit attitude, and his apparent overall attitude toward working class people. Add this apparent power move, steamrolling residents etc, to the list.
Ignoring the CPS controversy, what is more unpopular in Emanuel's administration versus Daley's? If you leave CPS out, I don't see a lot of changes for the worse in minority and working class neighborhoods. Gun violence is at barbaric levels and it needs to be curbed, but is it any different than it was 5 years ago?

Are the police notably less effective? What specific CTA decisions are you criticizing? (I see a huge amount of CTA investment in the South Side...)

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I also think they could do more with some public spaces there like Ping Tom Park and the public area of Chinatown Square.
The potential of Ping Tom is limited so long as it's cut off from the neighborhood by a rail line. I was hoping the new expansion would include stairs down from the 18th St bridge, but no dice on that. Ultimately the line is supposed to be removed due to regional-level shifts (CN moving trains to the EJ&E, potential abandonment of the St. Charles Air Line). Once that happens, the park will be much better-used.
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  #20372  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2013, 12:21 PM
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^ I have to agree that I just don't see Rahm doing anything vastly different than what Daley did for 22 years. The CPS closing is probably the biggest one, of course, but God forbid we close schools in areas of town that have been losing population for decades!

I mean, what makes some people think that it's the City's duty to continue to pay X amount of teachers? The City's #1 duty is to provide a service. If that service is no longer needed, then you have to cut said service. You simply cannot sustain X size workforce in a city that is shrinking.

Having said all that, I actually do think that Rahm's red light camera thing is a shitty idea and will REALLY end up proving unpopular..
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  #20373  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2013, 1:56 PM
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One of those cases where you pick your preservation battles.
exactly. if preservationists in this city really think a mangled, dumpy little throw-away buildings like 1501 n milwaukee is worthy of spilled blood, then it's no wonder the general public also rolls its collective eyes when the preservation community screams bloody murder about buildings that really do have historical merit and should be saved for posterity.
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  #20374  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2013, 3:25 PM
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^ I have to agree that I just don't see Rahm doing anything vastly different than what Daley did for 22 years. The CPS closing is probably the biggest one, of course, but God forbid we close schools in areas of town that have been losing population for decades!
I mean, what makes some people think that it's the City's duty to continue to pay X amount of teachers? The City's #1 duty is to provide a service. If that service is no longer needed, then you have to cut said service. You simply cannot sustain X size workforce in a city that is shrinking.

Having said all that, I actually do think that Rahm's red light camera thing is a shitty idea and will REALLY end up proving unpopular..
I agree with the bold. CPS has about 30,000 less students now than it did in 2000. And the vast majority of the lost students were African American unfortunately. How long should half empty schools be left open?
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  #20375  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2013, 4:23 PM
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http://oururbantimes.com/preservatio...ct-wicker-park

Developer seeks to demolish historic building in Milwaukee Ave. Landmark District in Wicker Park

By: Elaine Coorens

Date: 09/20/2013

Owner of the property at 1505 N. Milwaukee, Steve Lipe, Lipe Property Company, and his architect Brent Norsman, Norsman Architects, presented a proposal to the Wicker Park Committee's (WPC) Preservation and Development (P and D) Committee to demolish the building at 1501 N. Milwaukee Ave. in the Milwaukee Avenue Historic District at a meeting this week.
there are like 5 empty plots along division w of milwaukee, i wonder who is sitting on those.
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  #20376  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2013, 4:29 PM
SamInTheLoop SamInTheLoop is offline
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^ I have to agree that I just don't see Rahm doing anything vastly different than what Daley did for 22 years. The CPS closing is probably the biggest one, of course, but God forbid we close schools in areas of town that have been losing population for decades!

I mean, what makes some people think that it's the City's duty to continue to pay X amount of teachers? The City's #1 duty is to provide a service. If that service is no longer needed, then you have to cut said service. You simply cannot sustain X size workforce in a city that is shrinking.

Having said all that, I actually do think that Rahm's red light camera thing is a shitty idea and will REALLY end up proving unpopular..

in bold........in many ways, this is part of the problem for Rahm.....what is really going to end up hurting him come election time (assuming there is a credible alternative(s), which granted is a very large assumption).....elected at least in part on promises of reform (as much in the political sense, ie parting from good 'ole chicago political ways, as in policy and governing sense), he's already disappointed many in this regard, and then you have the very real and growing dislike - as someone above accurately pointed out - in the latino and african american communities, and he's got some fairly substantial difficulties shaping up for next year....
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  #20377  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2013, 5:30 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr Roboto View Post
The way you talk about school closings when the actual comparative savings is essentially peanuts, the accounting is fishy, and many lives are severely impacted by such a huge and nationally unprecedented decision, make you sound insensitive. People are clearly suspicious when its documented that hes pushing for charter schools. To top it off you make it sound as if CPS teachers are these uppity bullshit artists who are scheming to make hordes of money off of taxpayers. This is ridiculous. And comparing their salaries to the median household income, which includes those who never had a formal higher education, is lame and inconsistent. Please.
That's why I didn't claim the school closings are all about "savings". They are about shaking up a system that has seen almost no major attempts at reform for decades. It's not all about saving money, it's about trying something different. It's about trying to consolidate resources into fewer schools so those resources can be more effective. And guess what, Charter schools are a part of that. My comments on the schools topic is that it is irrelevant to any debate about the McPier Projects at McCormick Place. As you said, these schools are not just closing because of money, so why is the claim I was responding to, that the money that would have kept these schools open is being funneled to projects like the Arena and hotels valid?

Finally, my comments about median wage were simply that comparing teachers to the middle class is absurd. So you agree with me. It makes no sense to claim "teachers are the backbone of the middle class" when they are much more highly educated and compensated than the group that actually makes up the middle class, i.e. median wage earners.

Quote:
I do agree about the positive economic impact of the McPier development for the city, and don't necessarily feel it is a one or the other issue like its being portrayed, but you'd have to be completely oblivious to think that the TIF situation in this city is not being abused. You have to question why this fund isn't used for actually struggling areas, or barely stable areas, which is the way it was advertised originally.
When did I claim "TIFs are never abused in Chicago"? I didn't, all I said is that this is not an example of that. The McCormick Hotels and Arena are projects that will add to the economy of the region and probably wouldn't happen without TIF. They are being built on land that is unquestionably blighted and could act as a major stepping stone to get the boom in the South Loop to jump into Bronzeville. Sure most of the South Loop is doing well, but much of that success is far North of Cermak. Completing a game-changer project like this could act as a gateway for development to flood into much more derelict areas to the South.


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Rahms influence on this is unquestionable. The city is filing eminent domain to obtain the properties, do you think he doesn't have any involvement in this?
Again you are putting words in my mouth. I never said "Rahm has no role in this", my comments were that the city (i.e. Rahm) has a "minor role" in this. I went on to mention that the vast majority of the funding is through McPier and private interests like DePaul, the city is only contributing a small slice of the pie via TIF for land aquisition. So the city's role is limited to contributing $55 million out of $800-900 million. I would certainly say that is a "minor" role in a project of this size. Also, the city is NOT filing eminent domain, McPier is the plaintiff, which is exactly my point. Yes Rahm is supporting it, but quite literally 93%+ of the money is NOT coming from city coffers.
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  #20378  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2013, 6:33 PM
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Cermak L stop is going to be a way bigger deal for that area than I think most people even realize, imo
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  #20379  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2013, 7:27 PM
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Bronzeville recognized as a "top neighborhood" by This Old House. Pretty cool!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,1040595.story
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  #20380  
Old Posted Sep 24, 2013, 7:50 PM
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...he's already disappointed many in this regard, and then you have the very real and growing dislike - as someone above accurately pointed out - in the latino and african american communities, and he's got some fairly substantial difficulties shaping up for next year....
Plus the progressive white vote. If there is a credible progressive, he will have to work hard to keep that block. You know, the ones that Javorsky is writing for.
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