HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2020, 10:33 PM
M II A II R II K's Avatar
M II A II R II K M II A II R II K is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 52,200
Trackless Trams May Be The Best Alternative To Light Rail

Trackless Trams May Be The Best Alternative To Light Rail


23 Dec 2020

By Lisa Chamberlain

Read More: https://citymonitor.ai/transport/rai...-to-light-rail

Quote:
.....

The trackless tram, or autonomous rail transit (ART) as it is known in China, combines the best of high-speed rail and autonomous-vehicle (AV) technology with on-street mass transit to achieve a flexible, carbon-neutral and cost-effective urban connector. It is sold as a kit of parts – three cars plus a station – that can be installed about as fast as a city’s permitting process would allow, according to its proponents.

- Planners from Perth to New York City say it is the best possible use of AV tech in the urban context and a critical advancement in the era of climate change and our increasingly crisis-prone world. Others are taking a wait-and-see approach. But as with all innovations, whether trackless trams succeed on a mass scale depends as much on political and business interests as technology and design. “When it’s up and running in Perth, we’ll see,” says Sam Schwartz, a former traffic commissioner in New York City and the founder of an eponymous engineering company. “If it’s successful there, there will be slow exponential growth and then faster as it becomes more widespread. There’s a whole revolution of information technology that the transit industry has been incredibly slow to embrace.”

- Peter Newman, a professor of sustainability at Curtin University in Perth, is a staunch advocate for trackless trams. He was one of the first non-Chinese transit experts to visit the factory in Zhuzhou, China, where such streetcars continue to be developed. After 40 years of rail advocacy, Newman had to acknowledge that light rail is not always the best answer to urban transportation. This became clear to him when Sydney went way over budget installing light rail in its downtown core, disrupting the business district for years. But he doesn’t believe buses are the answer, either. “Buses can’t compete with rail,” Newman says. “They don’t get people out of cars. So I started looking around for alternatives to light rail and came upon an article about this new streetcar being developed in China.”

- He went to Zhuzhou in August of 2018 when the tram was still being tested. “I was convinced with one ride,” he says. “Doing 70km an hour, it rode like a train. The ride quality convinced me this is the future of transit. All of the problems with buses are gone: the jerkiness, the slowness, the vibration.” Upon his return from China, Newman co-authored a study and wrote a series of articles and papers. One paper he co-wrote, published in the Journal of Transportation Technologies in 2019, quantified the significant cost savings of trackless trams compared with light rail. In Sydney, for example, laying 20km of track through the oldest part of the city took five years and cost about $130m per kilometre. By contrast, trackless streetcars can be installed for as little as $10m per kilometre.

.....



An autonomous rail transit system launched in 2018 in Zhuzhou, China. (Photo courtesy of CRRC)


__________________
ASDFGHJK
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2020, 11:37 PM
kingkirbythe....'s Avatar
kingkirbythe.... kingkirbythe.... is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,595
Looks cool. But, I don’t know.

I would want to lane to be divided from other traffic lanes with a physical barrier.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2020, 7:08 AM
N830MH N830MH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,967
Wow! Very interesting! I never see that before! It's incredible!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2020, 5:53 PM
mrnyc mrnyc is offline
cle/west village/shaolin
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,586
aren’t those otherwise known as busses?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Dec 31, 2020, 11:52 PM
N830MH N830MH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,967
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
aren’t those otherwise known as busses?
No, it's different. It not exactly same as a buses.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2021, 12:19 AM
llamaorama llamaorama is offline
Unicorn Wizard!
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,204
Not a good idea to spend public funds on a vehicle that is only made by one company.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2021, 12:27 AM
craigs's Avatar
craigs craigs is offline
Birds Aren't Real!
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,667
Quote:
Originally Posted by N830MH View Post
No, it's different. It not exactly same as a buses.
What is the difference between a 'trackless tram" and a bus?
__________________
Donald Trump is America's Hitler.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2021, 12:27 AM
kingkirbythe....'s Avatar
kingkirbythe.... kingkirbythe.... is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,595
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
aren’t those otherwise known as busses?
I’d say halfway between light rail and bus.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2021, 1:12 AM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is online now
Show me the blueprints
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the artistic spectrum
Posts: 10,302
I'll just reiterate what I said in the other thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
Kinda cool, kinda weird and kinda stupid sort of all wrapped up into one. If that makes sense.
__________________
Everything new is old again

There is no goodness in him, and his power to convince people otherwise is beyond understanding
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2021, 1:25 AM
M II A II R II K's Avatar
M II A II R II K M II A II R II K is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 52,200
It is an electric vehicle with its own battery with higher capacity and is automated, but at least with supervision.

Also with no fixed tracks or overhead wires there’s an element of flexibility when it comes to routing. But yes it would only be effective on its own right of way.
__________________
ASDFGHJK
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2021, 2:12 AM
Minato Ku's Avatar
Minato Ku Minato Ku is online now
Tokyo and Paris fan
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Paris, Montrouge
Posts: 4,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigs View Post
What is the difference between a 'trackless tram" and a bus?
It's just a long bi-directional bus

Note that it's very difficult to control long vehicles with several cars without a solid guided system, especially with high-speed and curves.
That's why rails exist.

What is proposed here isn't really new. It just seems to be the combination of several things.

Megabus with a tram look
Mettis in Metz, France

Mettis, Metz by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Mettis, Metz by Minato ku, sur Flickr

Bus services with optical guidance also exist since at last two decades.

Rouen in France



TEOR, Rouen 2010 by Minato ku, sur Flickr

Bi-directional bus, Mont Saint-Michel, France
Video Link
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Jan 2, 2021, 11:14 PM
M II A II R II K's Avatar
M II A II R II K M II A II R II K is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 52,200
It could also be a prelude to a trackless train where where they would be easily passable on a transitway and multiple different types of services could be run on the same route.
__________________
ASDFGHJK
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2021, 2:56 PM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 16,356
Damn, those French examples are awesome transit designs. The French are really the only country that puts that level of style and design into transit vehicles. That bus in Mont-St-Michel is gorgeous, so is the bus in Metz.

These systems are a cool idea but AFAIK they're all vendor-locked/proprietary, which is a serious problem. Monorails always had the same problem. Anytime you want to expand the system, or just make repairs, you have to go back to the same company... and they can charge whatever they want! Your city is now a captive customer. Traditional buses, and traditional rail systems, are well-understood and vehicles, components, etc are supplied by many competing manufacturers.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2021, 6:58 AM
canucklehead2 canucklehead2 is offline
Sex Marxist of Notleygrad
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: YEG
Posts: 6,847
As if the tracks are the most expensive thing about mass transit, lol... Nope, but they do make the ride a lot more smooth which is why I'll still with my steel on rail trains any day... Unless we're talking Maglev...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted May 2, 2021, 3:18 PM
M II A II R II K's Avatar
M II A II R II K M II A II R II K is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 52,200
Melbourne’s next generation trams could be trackless with rubber wheels

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...22-p57ldr.html

Quote:
.....

- By 2025, brand-new trams will be cruising through Melbourne’s streets, thanks to a $1.5 billion Andrews government injection to fund 100 “next-generation trams”. Nimble, low-floor and energy-efficient, the new vehicles will replace lumbering A and Z-Class trams built in the 1970s and 1980s. — While much of the design work will be done during the upcoming tender process, some experts are calling for a radical transformation of Melbourne’s tram technology that will bring the city’s trams in line with China and Europe.

- Smaller. At 25 metres long – about eight metres shorter than the newest E-Class trams – the next-generation trams will carry 150 passengers. This is fewer than the E-Class, which carry 210 people. Despite the smaller size, seating will remain proportionally comparable with the E-Class, with 48 people or a third of passengers getting a seat on the new fleet. — But smaller-sized trams are being prioritised so they can run along tight curves on parts of the network that are inaccessible to E-Class trams. They will also be lighter.

- Tram rides will be smoother, thanks to new technology that helps avoid collisions via on-board cameras and network mapping that warns drivers of obstacles and can automatically apply brakes. They will also be powered differently. Instead of relying on power from overhead wires, which are expensive to maintain and vulnerable to faults, the new fleet will be the first in Melbourne to be partly powered by on-board batteries. — They will be equipped with “regenerative braking technology”, which transfers the kinetic energy released by the tram’s brakes back into the tram’s battery, which then helps to power the tram. This will mean a 40 per cent drop in power usage, while there will also be a cap on the amount of energy the tram can draw from overhead lines.

.....
__________________
ASDFGHJK
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted May 2, 2021, 9:48 PM
Pedestrian's Avatar
Pedestrian Pedestrian is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 24,177
I see no significant difference between this and BRT as San Francisco is installing it (especially if the busses are electric or hybrid as many in the city are since the city owns a hydropower dam providing it plenty of very cheap and green electricity):





Currently under construction:


All images: https://www.google.com/search?q=Van+...CsNhDoDPwhEoEM
Reply With Quote
     
     
End
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:39 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.