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  #481  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2020, 10:27 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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It brings up an interesting question:

What do you do if you're Arizona Center? With office, retail and dining all in the tank how do they utilize the space in any way that's profitable. In recent years they began renting the grassy areas and fountain space for events but that's off the table for at least a few more months.

200 apartments on property isn't going to change much on the retail/dining front. It's not the silver bullet. Even if two people live in every unit that's not going to save the mall, especially when there are no conventions. I'd be looking for a tenant who needs a lot of space for a call center or support services and get them in at a discount rate. Stop the bleeding. Will be interesting to see how they decide to position themselves.
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  #482  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2020, 11:07 PM
ASU Diablo ASU Diablo is offline
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
It brings up an interesting question:

What do you do if you're Arizona Center? With office, retail and dining all in the tank how do they utilize the space in any way that's profitable. In recent years they began renting the grassy areas and fountain space for events but that's off the table for at least a few more months.

200 apartments on property isn't going to change much on the retail/dining front. It's not the silver bullet. Even if two people live in every unit that's not going to save the mall, especially when there are no conventions. I'd be looking for a tenant who needs a lot of space for a call center or support services and get them in at a discount rate. Stop the bleeding. Will be interesting to see how they decide to position themselves.
With the pending Emergency Authorization Release of the Pfizer and Maderna vaccines (plus many others getting close), I think it’s safe to say we “may” be back to “normal” by the end of 2021. I think it’s foolish to significantly reduce height and total number of units, from 31 to 13 (if true).

In the interim, I’ve seen events still happen. For example, Herberger Theater Center is already doing outside shows and it’s right across the street. Maybe Taco Trucks during the week or weekend? “Jackson 301” is a weekly Saturday taco truck and other vendor event that’s held on an empty parking lot with some success.
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  #483  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2020, 11:13 PM
PHXFlyer11 PHXFlyer11 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
It brings up an interesting question:

What do you do if you're Arizona Center? With office, retail and dining all in the tank how do they utilize the space in any way that's profitable. In recent years they began renting the grassy areas and fountain space for events but that's off the table for at least a few more months.

200 apartments on property isn't going to change much on the retail/dining front. It's not the silver bullet. Even if two people live in every unit that's not going to save the mall, especially when there are no conventions. I'd be looking for a tenant who needs a lot of space for a call center or support services and get them in at a discount rate. Stop the bleeding. Will be interesting to see how they decide to position themselves.
I really think they would've been wise to go with condos. The housing market is on fire. In addition, if I were them, I'd look to take advantage of the market (Phoenix should continue to do well with residents flooding in from other states) and draw up plans to build on the vacant parking lots another 2 residential towers. I'd plan for some ground floor retail.

Then, they can see if the retail market starts to recover and if the new developments drive more demand for on-site retail. Otherwise, I think I'd use the proceeds to start to take down parts of the shopping center and continue to build more residential units with ground floor retail.

Likely they'd need to phase this very carefully, which is why i think 31-story tower with condos instead of apartments would be critical to providing the funding for future development on site.
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  #484  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2020, 11:16 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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Condos are a quick profit and then you turn management over to the HOA and never think about it again.

Apartments are going to make them money for a long time. They're either leasing the land to a developer or developing and paying a management company a piece of the pie to run it.

Condos are exciting for a lot of us because we see them as stability in the location, but they aren't always the best play if you need to create recurring revenue.
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  #485  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2020, 11:20 PM
PHXFlyer11 PHXFlyer11 is offline
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Originally Posted by biggus diggus View Post
Condos are a quick profit and then you turn management over to the HOA and never think about it again.

Apartments are going to make them money for a long time. They're either leasing the land to a developer or developing and paying a management company a piece of the pie to run it.

Condos are exciting for a lot of us because we see them as stability in the location, but they aren't always the best play if you need to create recurring revenue.
Yea I was operating under the assumption that the company would not get any recurring revenue for residential, condos or apartments. They are not a management company and most of the apartment developments are quickly sold. So I'm looking at this for one time profit to fund later portions of the project. If they still wish to pursue retail this buys them and also would allow them to build a more realistic retail model with ground floor retail in new residential towers they can lease vs the current standalone mall model.
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  #486  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2020, 11:21 PM
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The submitted plans for the tower is 28 floors and 352 units (not 200). For the building to be 13 stories and cutting the number of units down to only 176 units would probably not pencil out unless every unit has been Derby-sized or they've entirely removed the parking podium (highly unlikely).

So I think this is strictly a typo or the author confused Palm Tower's floor count with AC's which is 13 floors.
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  #487  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2020, 11:25 PM
biggus diggus biggus diggus is offline
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Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11 View Post
Yea I was operating under the assumption that the company would not get any recurring revenue for residential, condos or apartments. They are not a management company and most of the apartment developments are quickly sold. So I'm looking at this for one time profit to fund later portions of the project. If they still wish to pursue retail this buys them and also would allow them to build a more realistic retail model with ground floor retail in new residential towers they can lease vs the current standalone mall model.
All they need to do is hire a GC and a property manager and revenue will come. They could also lease the land to a developer. Lots of ways to skin it so they get residual income for a long time.
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  #488  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2020, 3:51 PM
azliam azliam is offline
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OK, so here's an update on that AZBigMedia article. I emailed them yesterday asking if the 13-story listed in the article was a typo. I checked the article again this morning and it appears they updated it:

“We are continuing to receive inquiries regarding leasing space at our retail center. The new AC Hotel by Marriott will open at the beginning of 2021, and we will soon start construction on a 29-story residential tower,” Cicuttini said.

https://azbigmedia.com/business/covi...ntown-phoenix/
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  #489  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2020, 3:56 PM
ASU Diablo ASU Diablo is offline
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OK, so here's an update on that AZBigMedia article. I emailed them yesterday asking if the 13-story listed in the article was a typo. I checked the article again this morning and it appears they updated it:

“We are continuing to receive inquiries regarding leasing space at our retail center. The new AC Hotel by Marriott will open at the beginning of 2021, and we will soon start construction on a 29-story residential tower,” Cicuttini said.

https://azbigmedia.com/business/covi...ntown-phoenix/
Boom! All this bickering for nothing
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  #490  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2020, 4:20 PM
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Boom! All this bickering for nothing
Haha nice work!
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  #491  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2020, 4:23 PM
Diamonddave Diamonddave is offline
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I'll bet that most of their inquiries came from this forum. Again nice work.
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  #492  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2020, 5:30 PM
gymratmanaz gymratmanaz is offline
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Can we now pester Astra for a new rendering? LOL
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  #493  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2020, 5:40 PM
azliam azliam is offline
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Can we now pester Astra for a new rendering? LOL
Christmas early? LOL
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  #494  
Old Posted Feb 17, 2021, 11:26 PM
ASU Diablo ASU Diablo is offline
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AC Hotel Phoenix Downtown opens at Arizona Center

Was hoping for updates on Palm Court Tower but no luck.

https://azbigmedia.com/lifestyle/acc...rizona-center/
Quote:
Arizona Center, a shopping, dining and entertainment destination in the heart of downtown Phoenix, prepares to welcome the new AC Hotel Phoenix Downtown, opening Feb. 18, 2021.
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  #495  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2021, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ASU Diablo View Post
Was hoping for updates on Palm Court Tower but no luck.

https://azbigmedia.com/lifestyle/acc...rizona-center/
AC come out pretty decent although I don't like the street-side integration. It feels a little too cutoff with curtain walls they put up against the sidewalk. The backside facing inwards towards the mall came out pretty good though and should add a some activity when the hotel fills up.

As for Palm Tower, there were some landscapers pulling vegetation around the lot today. Not sure if that really means anything. Could just be just everyday landscaping. But I sure wish this would move. Residential is sorely needed for the block and would add good fill in the skyline.
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  #496  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2021, 2:17 AM
soled soled is offline
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Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro View Post

As for Palm Tower, there were some landscapers pulling vegetation around the lot today. Not sure if that really means anything. Could just be just everyday landscaping. But I sure wish this would move. Residential is sorely needed for the block and would add good fill in the skyline.
I can't say things have changed from my construction days 3 decades ago, but back in the day if they were going to prep a lot they'd just grade it. They had to grade it, anyway, so spending money subbing out a landscaping crew would just be a redundant task at an added expense.
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  #497  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2021, 2:41 AM
IndyAZ IndyAZ is offline
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I can't say things have changed from my construction days 3 decades ago, but back in the day if they were going to prep a lot they'd just grade it. They had to grade it, anyway, so spending money subbing out a landscaping crew would just be a redundant task at an added expense.
Things have changed a lot, inventory/salvage plans are required on every project in the City of Phoenix. Plants to remain have to be roped/fenced off and any salvageable plants have to be dug up, boxed, moved to a nursery, then inspected before the grading permit will ever be released. When you see that, you know construction in eminent
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  #498  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2021, 2:46 AM
soled soled is offline
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Things have changed a lot, inventory/salvage plans are required on every project in the City of Phoenix. Plants to remain have to be roped/fenced off and any salvageable plants have to be dug up, boxed, moved to a nursery, then inspected before the grading permit will ever be released. When you see that, you know construction in eminent
That's been the case for a long, long time. But I took his post to mean they were maintaining weeds, growth, etc. If I misread that then my thoughts weren't applicable
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  #499  
Old Posted Feb 18, 2021, 2:51 AM
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Originally Posted by soled View Post
I can't say things have changed from my construction days 3 decades ago, but back in the day if they were going to prep a lot they'd just grade it. They had to grade it, anyway, so spending money subbing out a landscaping crew would just be a redundant task at an added expense.
It would seem the logical option. But I seen seen this with Stewart, Kennect, Aspire and AC all having some smaller landscaping removed prior to grading. Some of the bigger stuff like Palo Verde trees were bulldozed. I don't know much about it, so not sure why.
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  #500  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2021, 6:47 PM
ASU Diablo ASU Diablo is offline
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Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro View Post
AC come out pretty decent although I don't like the street-side integration. It feels a little too cutoff with curtain walls they put up against the sidewalk. The backside facing inwards towards the mall came out pretty good though and should add a some activity when the hotel fills up.
AZ Central has pictures up and reinforces what Crested mentions. Backside really opens up well to the rest of the mall...

https://www.azcentral.com/picture-ga...ix/4498758001/
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