The Brooklyn Factor - Page 2

dc_denizen · #21 Posted **Jul 29, 2020, 10:40 PM**

In dc

14th and u, as mentioned above

Top of Adams Morgan

H st northeast

Downtown Alexandria

Georgetown

Top of Columbia heights

craigs · #22 Posted **Jul 30, 2020, 1:42 AM**

Harvard Square is obviously not just like Brooklyn, but in the Boston region, I think it's the most consistently busy non-CBD area in terms of pedestrian activity and how the pedestrian activity seems to spread in all directions when in the heart of it.

Docere · #23 Posted **Jul 30, 2020, 4:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segun

Toronto - Bloor & Spadina

Does the Annex count as downtown Toronto? Officially it is but it's borderline and Toronto uses a pretty expansive "greater downtown" definition.

LA21st · #24 Posted **Jul 30, 2020, 5:26 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

What about Westwood in LA?

Westwood Village isn't a bad suggestion, especially during the week when it's pretty damn active, as it's also a big employment node. It can feel sleepy on a Sunday, I suppose.

I agree downtown SM/Main Street is the closest, the mixed use developments have expanded downtown to Lincoln, and it will probably go well beyond on that.
West Holllywood would be second, Hollywood 3rd. Koreatown is 4, but it could end up being one in the future. It's bigger, so it has more holes to fill.
That said, Westlake or Pico Union belong on that list, as those streets always seem vibrant and have a good amount of commerical storefronts. Very gritty though.

LA21st · #25 Posted **Jul 30, 2020, 5:28 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by edale

Yeah, Hollywood was my first thought when I read your initial post, but I thought the linear focus of Hollywood and Sunset Blvds didn't quite fit. You're right that the whole area is infilling, but the incoming development tends to be massive and well beyond the 3-4 story scale you're describing. But for large amounts of pedestrians, commercial activity located outside of a downtown environment, Hollywood is probably LA's answer, especially given the multiple subway stops in Hollywood.

Yea, that section of Hollywood has exploded in the last 5 years. Sunset and Vine is one of my favorite intersections of the city these days.

eschaton · #26 Posted **Jul 30, 2020, 1:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segun

There's also Pittsburgh.

Pittsburgh basically has two different kind of higher-density areas outside of Downtown.

1. Traditional rowhouse neighborhoods, which are characterized by 2-3 story attached homes and commercial "main drags" of roughly the same density. In some cases the intact commercial strips go on for 20-30 blocks. Historically there was industry within walking distance of all of these areas, though it's almost all vanished now. These areas include Lawrenceville, South Side, all the still intact portions of the lower North Side, South Oakland, etc.

2. Areas in the East End (North Oakland, Shadyside, East Liberty). These areas began being built out in the late 19th century as early streetcar suburbia. There were several different phases of densification as estates were broken up and multifamily added, including the early 20th century, the postwar period, contemporary infill. Thus on a given block you can see anything from a grand Victorian (which may or may not be chopped up) an ugly mid-century lowrise, or a mini-tower.

Pittsburgh is starting to develop a third typology now in downtown-adjacent areas like the Strip District, Uptown, and the North Shore where intact historic higher-density areas are being infilled with multifamily, but this is still a work in progress.

pj3000 · #27 Posted **Jul 30, 2020, 2:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Segun

There's also Pittsburgh.

Pittsburgh can definitely give you a dose of that tight, urban jungle feeling in certain areas. Though I don't think it's on that "seamless stream of pedestrian activity from street to street, meaning you can wander in any direction and find it" level, if I understand what you're getting at.

Pittsburgh's very dense neighborhoods (like eschaton mentioned above) generally have a "main drag" of commercial activity which is very active, but as soon as you turn onto one of the side streets, it turns pretty quiet fast. Not that the side streets aren't dense... they're VERY tightly-packed rowhouse blocks... but they are always nearly 100% residential (there are corner businesses, but you generally don't have the ground-level commercial space throughout the block). You don't get the same level of sidewalk/street vibrancy from block to block off the main drag in Pittsburgh that you see in Brooklyn or Philly.

Flat land is just at such a premium in Pittsburgh that the side streets (and sidewalks) are narrow as goddamn hell. I guess there was just not enough room to lay out a street grid with normal-width side streets, and thus, you don't really get a "network of intersecting commercial streets".

So, in the really dense areas, like Lawrenceville/Bloomfield and the South Side, there's REALLY long, dense commercial strips (Butler St, Penn Ave, Liberty Ave running through Lawrenceville/Bloomfield areas; E Carson St running through the South Side) which serve the very dense surrounding residential blocks.

eschaton · #28 Posted **Jul 30, 2020, 3:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj3000

Pittsburgh's very dense neighborhoods (like eschaton mentioned above) generally have a "main drag" of commercial activity which is very active, but as soon as you turn onto one of the side streets, it turns pretty quiet fast. Not that the side streets aren't dense... they're VERY tightly-packed rowhouse blocks... but they are always nearly 100% residential (there are corner businesses, but you generally don't have the ground-level commercial space throughout the block). You don't get the same level of sidewalk/street vibrancy from block to block off the main drag in Pittsburgh that you see in Brooklyn or Philly.

We have pretty antiquated zoning codes when it comes to maintaining commercial uses on back blocks. Unless you want to keep to the existing use, you need a variance to keep things commercial enterprises, which means any NIMBY can dispute it. This in turn means that more and more of the old storefronts are converted into residential as time goes on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj3000

Flat land is just at such a premium in Pittsburgh that the side streets (and sidewalks) are narrow as goddamn hell. I guess there was just not enough room to lay out a street grid with normal-width side streets, and thus, you don't really get a "network of intersecting commercial streets".

So, in the really dense areas, like Lawrenceville/Bloomfield and the South Side, there's REALLY long, dense commercial strips (Butler St, Penn Ave, Liberty Ave running through Lawrenceville/Bloomfield areas; E Carson St running through the South Side) which serve the very dense surrounding residential blocks.

Historically Pittsburgh had two three-dimensional commercial areas. One - Old Allegheny City - was entirely destroyed by urban renewal to make way for an indoor shopping mall and some residential and office towers. The other was Downtown East Liberty, which was also quite badly damaged by urban renewal. It is mostly a linear strip along Penn now, but there are some little spurs onto Highland, Centre, and Baum showing what it used to be. Hell, the Shadyside business districts on S. Highland and Ellsworth were originally the fringes of downtown East Liberty.

JManc · #29 Posted **Jul 30, 2020, 3:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA21st

Yea, that section of Hollywood has exploded in the last 5 years. Sunset and Vine is one of my favorite intersections of the city these days.

Is it still mostly tourists wandering around? I know there's been a flurry of residential development around there in recent years though.

LA21st · #30 Posted **Jul 30, 2020, 3:48 PM**

Tourists mainly stick to Vine and Hollywood blvd.

Sunset/Vine and Cahuenga seem to be locals and the Hollywood crowd. Alot of new offices have/are going up in that area. Netflix has 3 giant office buildings, Viacom. Several hotels and residential highrises are planned or u/c. Ameoba Records is moving to Hollywood Blvd, the old location will be a 28 story tower.

Hollywood will eventually become LA's 2nd downtown.

edale · #31 Posted **Jul 30, 2020, 5:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc

Is it still mostly tourists wandering around? I know there's been a flurry of residential development around there in recent years though.

It's a good mix of tourists and locals. There are some great restaurants, the arclight theater, gyms/fitness places...places that are geared toward residents. I still look at the stars on the sidewalk when I go to Hollywood, so I probably look like a bit of a tourist

MolsonExport · #32 Posted **Jul 30, 2020, 6:41 PM**

North Battleford, Saskatchewan.

Razor · #33 Posted **Jul 30, 2020, 6:58 PM**

mmm Ottawa may have a tiny bit of that going on through the Glebe in old Ottawa South and down Bank Street towards the hill.

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4026...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4070...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4154...7i16384!8i8192

LosAngelesSportsFan · #34 Posted **Jul 30, 2020, 7:11 PM**

Old Town Pasadena definitely fits the bill between walnut and green Street, between Pasadena Ave and lake... Pretty wide area

JManc · #35 Posted **Jul 30, 2020, 9:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by edale

It's a good mix of tourists and locals. There are some great restaurants, the arclight theater, gyms/fitness places...places that are geared toward residents. I still look at the stars on the sidewalk when I go to Hollywood, so I probably look like a bit of a tourist

That's what I tended to noticed every time I am in the area; tourists and the locals are very easy to tell apart. Tourists roam in packs aimlessly and have their phones out. Locals have their air pods in, look focused and are on a mad dash to the gym on their lunch hour. They probably stare at the stars too. lol ooh look, Milton Berle

maru2501 · #36 Posted **Jul 31, 2020, 5:23 PM**

chi - Milwaukee ave corridor in Wicker Park

Segun · #37 Posted **Aug 4, 2020, 5:54 PM**

Real good choices by everyone.

Thanks for the write-ups on Pittsburgh, Eschaton and PJ3000.

That area of Ottawa looks nice and vibrant. Now I want to visit.

Segun · #38 Posted **Aug 4, 2020, 6:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

North Battleford, Saskatchewan.

I looked this up too. Why not!?

Yall Canadian cities are odd. You can tell this is a dusty, stuck in in a time period, back of the road town, but the businesses look too clean and numerous. Like, if this was an American version of this town, there'd be broken sidewalks w weeds growing through them, empty lots, boarded up storefronts, and the busiest spot would be some place with hand made signs that sell BBQ.

MolsonExport · #39 Posted **Aug 7, 2020, 9:18 PM**

edale · #40 Posted **Aug 7, 2020, 9:47 PM**

I agree that Montreal has many neighborhoods comparable to Brooklyn. Overall, it's probably the closest analogue for Brooklyn anywhere.

Most of these examples, though, are purely residential, which doesn't really get at the point of this thread. I'd like to see more commercial examples. From past visits, I remember a few areas that I can more or less find on maps:

This area feels a bit like Williamsburg:
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5230...7i16384!8i8192

Could be Queens or Brooklyn:
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.5474...7i16384!8i8192

There are several cities that could similarly claim to have multiple of such neighborhoods. DC, Chicago, San Francisco, Philadelphia, Boston, Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver could all comfortably claim this.