Alexandra Bridge replacement | Proposed

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

At the very least it's the best looking bridge between Ottawa and Gatineau.

Not exactly high praise huh?

We know nothing modern will be approved so suspect we end up with something very utilitarian.

[rocketphish]

Heritage, environmental advocates form group to save Alexandra Bridge
120-year-old bridge could be demolished, rebuilt

CBC News
Posted: May 07, 2021 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: 4 hours ago

A group made up of heritage, transportation and environmental advocates has formed to oppose plans to demolish and rebuild the 120-year-old Alexandra Bridge between Ottawa and Gatineau, Que.

The bridge, which opened in 1901, normally carries nine per cent of all vehicular traffic between the two cities, and one-third of the pedestrians and cyclists crossing the Ottawa River.

However, it's near the end of its life cycle, according to Public Services and Procurement Canada (PSPC), and its deteriorating state means it will likely have to be replaced within the next decade.

The recently formed Alexanda Bridge Coalition, however, believes the costs associated with maintaining the bridge as is would be seriously reduced if it were converted into a "green bridge" that did not carry motor vehicles.

"It is one of the most historic bridges in Canada. Esthetically, it's one of the prettiest bridges," said Jordan Ferraro, co-spokesperson for the coalition.

"[It has a] wonderful history of connecting the two provinces, reducing the two solitudes."

At the moment, no vehicles are running across the bridge, which has been undergoing construction work since January that was supposed to wrap up at the end of last month, but has been extended until mid-June.

More lane closures are expected until at least 2022.

According to the coalition, converting it to an "active transportation" bridge would alleviate problems like corrosion caused by the weight of all the vehicles that make the daily crossing between the two cities.

Maintaining such a "magnificent architectural wonder" would also be in line with the City of Ottawa's long-term plans to revitalize the nearby ByWard Market, said Ferraro.

One possibility could involve replacing vehicles with a "tourist tram," he said.

"The reality is, you wouldn't need that much maintenance because the stress on the bridge wouldn't be that great."

The bridge has a long history, and Ferraro feels the best way to modernize it is to return it to its past, when it was once a railway bridge with a tram running across.

Ferraro said environmental organizations, architects and heritage advocates agree.

"They all began to say the same thing: This is something that we really, truly feel strongly about. This is a piece of our Canadian history. This is a piece we want to maintain."

But PSPC said fixing the existing structure isn't on the table.

"The decision and the direction was quite clear to replace the Alexandra Bridge," Jean-François Lymburner, associate assistant deputy minister of the department's real property services section told CBC Radio's Ottawa Morning Wednesday.

He said river water has been causing "significant damage" to the bridge's steel support structure, and the rust is only getting worse.

"Every single metal part will need to be replaced," Lymburner said.

PSPC is already spending $1 million per year to maintain the bridge while it's waiting to be replaced, which Lymburner said won't happen before 2028.

With files from CBC's Julie Delaney and CBC Radio's Ottawa Morning

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...tawa-1.6012519

[Harley613]

I like the Alexandra Bridge and I'll shed a tear when it goes down, but it needs to go down. It's not like the Eiffel Tower where it's so beautiful and so historically significant that it warrants replacement of it's entire structure one girder at a time, cost be damned. (the Eiffel Tower has been fully replaced twice now). I also believe the new bridge should carry cars AND trams. We are moving towards and greener electric automobile future and while I believe good public transit makes a good city, I don't believe reducing the current vehicle capacity on Ottawa bridges will be a good thing for this city as it grows.

[DarkArconio]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

One possibility could involve replacing vehicles with a "tourist tram," he said.

"The reality is, you wouldn't need that much maintenance because the stress on the bridge wouldn't be that great."

Why do I not trust these people’s perspective? It’s one thing to trust the engineers and say “let’s replace it with an identical bridge” but another to just think “if we do what I want the problems go away”. Trams are not necessarily lighter than cars.

I do agree rebuilding the bridge with the proposed tram transit loop in mind would be a good idea.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Harley613

I like the Alexandra Bridge and I'll shed a tear when it goes down, but it needs to go down. It's not like the Eiffel Tower where it's so beautiful and so historically significant that it warrants replacement of it's entire structure one girder at a time, cost be damned. (the Eiffel Tower has been fully replaced twice now). I also believe the new bridge should carry cars AND trams. We are moving towards and greener electric automobile future and while I believe good public transit makes a good city, I don't believe reducing the current vehicle capacity on Ottawa bridges will be a good thing for this city as it grows.

Internal combustion engine private vehicles vs electric private vehicles will cause the same congestion and present the same danger to pedestrians. The lineups of cars from Wellington and down Sussex is not sustainable. I for one am not proposing to reduce the total number of lanes between the two cities, but a re-distribution by building the Kettle Island Bridge.

One possibility could involve replacing vehicles with a "tourist tram," he said.

"The reality is, you wouldn't need that much maintenance because the stress on the bridge wouldn't be that great."

Please no "tourist" tram. We need to make the best use of our infrastructure, and that's the full Gatineau Tramway project.

I still don't believe that a tramway would be less stressful to the bridge. Instead of a bunch of "lighter" private vehicles spread out throughout the bridge, it will be one "heavy" tramway full of people moving across the bridge. It ends up being a heavier load at any given point where the tram crosses, so the bridge needs to be built to accommodate a different kind of stress, just like Portage.

Again, I would not mind what would basically be a replica of the bridge, or a new bridge if that's what it needs to be. Either way, by removing cars and replacing them with tramways, the structural element needs to be designed differently.

Side note: if was built to carry streetcars and heavy rail trains, so the original structural design might actually suffice.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Harley613

I like the Alexandra Bridge and I'll shed a tear when it goes down, but it needs to go down. It's not like the Eiffel Tower where it's so beautiful and so historically significant that it warrants replacement of it's entire structure one girder at a time, cost be damned. (the Eiffel Tower has been fully replaced twice now).

I do tend to agree with you here. If the engineers say the only way to save it would be to replace it's entire structure one girder at a time, then it probably isn't worth it. The problem is, while I trust the engineers, I don't trust the PSPC bureaucrats who are passing on the engineers' message. The quote from the CBC article by "Jean-François Lymburner, associate assistant deputy minister of the department's real property services section" that bothers me is:

He said river water has been causing "significant damage" to the bridge's steel support structure, and the rust is only getting worse.

The thing is, the bridge supports are made of stone, not steel. The steel parts are significantly above the water level, so I don't know how the the "river water" is causing them to rust. I have no doubt that there is significant rust on the bridge. I also have no doubt that the bridge supports are in need of significant repair, but this is the type of twisting of the facts that bureaucrats can do to get what they want.

Originally Posted by Harley613

I also believe the new bridge should carry cars AND trams. We are moving towards and greener electric automobile future and while I believe good public transit makes a good city, I don't believe reducing the current vehicle capacity on Ottawa bridges will be a good thing for this city as it grows.

I don't necessarily agree with you. While EVs are significantly greener than the ICE vehicles they are replacing, they aren't completely green. They certainly won't do anything to reduce traffic and congestion. The question is does allowing cars on the Alexandra bridge reduce congestion and improve traffic flow or not? I suspect it makes things worse, but a study would be needed to prove my suspicions. We need to stop looking at these projects in isolation. As was recumbently posted in the Roads/Bridges projects/issues thread:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

the Market Public Realm plan, the Alexandra Bridge (and the Kettle Island Bridge), the Gatineau Tramway and the mess of an intersection at Wellington/Rideau/Mackenzie/Sussex/Colonel By should all be coordinated as one project. Each one has a major impact on the other.

I couldn't say it better myself.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Side note: if was built to carry streetcars and heavy rail trains, so the original structural design might actually suffice.

Yup. The bridge designed and built with the centre section for steam trains and the side sections with a roadway inlaid with tracks for trams.


Ottawa ... looking down from Nepean Point onto the Alexandra Bridge 1901.
Image Saved on Pinterest by Dianne Chapman

[Tesladom]

Originally Posted by Harley613

It's not like the Eiffel Tower where it's so beautiful

That wasn't the case when it was first built, it was a Parisian eyesore and was meant to be temporary for World's Fair
Funny how perspectives change over time...maybe Claridge Icon will become a historical monument one day!!

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I don't necessarily agree with you. While EVs are significantly greener than the ICE vehicles they are replacing, they aren't completely green. They certainly won't do anything to reduce traffic and congestion. The question is does allowing cars on the Alexandra bridge reduce congestion and improve traffic flow or not? I suspect it makes things worse, but a study would be needed to prove my suspicions. We need to stop looking at these projects in isolation.

I expect car sharing to skyrocket once EVs are fully mandated and omnipresnent. I truly believe there will be significantly less vehicles on the road, even with far more population.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Harley613

I expect car sharing to skyrocket once EVs are fully mandated and omnipresnent. I truly believe there will be significantly less vehicles on the road, even with far more population.

Car sharing will reduce the number of vehicles in parking lots, but it won't reduce the number of vehicles on the road at a given moment in time, as the same number of vehicles will be need to be on the road to transport a given number of people. If anything it will increase the number of vehicles on the road as they will need to deadhead from where it drops one person off to where it needs to pick up the next person.

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by Harley613

I expect car sharing to skyrocket once EVs are fully mandated and omnipresnent. I truly believe there will be significantly less vehicles on the road, even with far more population.

That will take fully automated cars, not just EVs. As it stands today EVs do nothing to reduce the amount of cars on the road.

[OTownandDown]

I've been on this bridge recently and took a look down thru the steel grating on the car-side, and it's scary how corroded and bulged the main structural members are.

The main compression members are large (like 2-3' square) plate and lattice with riveted connections. Wherever there's one plate overtop of another, there's rust (can't paint the inside of the connection) and the rivets must be under a huge amount of shearing from the rust. I say' wherever there's plates overtop of one another' but that is pretty much everywhere. Not only that, but its all odd bulges and out-of-square areas.

A 'condition assessment' sounds like a nightmare, and I'm glad it's not me doing it. What is the remaining cross section of the steel in all these sandwiched corroded areas, how much pitting corrosion is happening creating tremendous point-load stress, where are the critical areas of loading vs corrosion, what's been repaired in the past, what is leftover, how can it be reinforced, and most importantly, which section is going to fail first and how to protect the public. Submit all that to PSPC in a way they can understand and trust them to make a sound decision about it?

There's got to be a few hundred thousand individual pieces of steel that need to be accounted for, taken apart, corrosion addressed, and then reinstated with new rivets and a new paint coating to last 20-30 years before it needs a re-coat. I wonder if active cathodic protection was ever on the table?

A full repair will likely need a fully shored bridge, barges or some other type of scaffolding to the water, so that the main members can be removed and replaced or reinforced in place. Keeping the centre span and the cantilevers stable while all of this is happening is a massive challenge.

I encourage all of you to take a walk and really look down over the rails, or trespass on the drivelane side to look down. It doesn't look too hot.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Car sharing will reduce the number of vehicles in parking lots, but it won't reduce the number of vehicles on the road at a given moment in time, as the same number of vehicles will be need to be on the road to transport a given number of people. If anything it will increase the number of vehicles on the road as they will need to deadhead from where it drops one person off to where it needs to pick up the next person.

I disagree. Ride and car sharing will work in harmony when self driving EVs are ubiquitous. Uber's entire business model is based on getting to self driving as fast as possible. In the future if I need to get downtown from my house I will probably be sharing a self driving EV with a couple of other people.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Harley613

I disagree. Ride and car sharing will work in harmony when self driving EVs are ubiquitous. Uber's entire business model is based on getting to self driving as fast as possible. In the future if I need to get downtown from my house I will probably be sharing a self driving EV with a couple of other people.

So basically you are saying they will force you to carpool with strangers? I'm not sure how successful that model will be.

Getting back on topic, even if this does become popular, I don't see how this makes having the Alexandra bridge open to cars more important. As others have said, it is rare for it to be the best option and you are having to pick up and drop off 2 or 3 other people on the way, it is even less likely to be a significantly better crossing.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by roger1818

So basically you are saying they will force you to carpool with strangers? I'm not sure how successful that model will be.

Getting back on topic, even if this does become popular, I don't see how this makes having the Alexandra bridge open to cars more important. As others have said, it is rare for it to be the best option and you are having to pick up and drop off 2 or 3 other people on the way, it is even less likely to be a significantly better crossing.

Nobody will be forced to do anything. Young people today are finding car ownership to be further and further from grasp and they are very open to the sharing economy. It will be very normal to hop into an automated shared EV in the not so distant future.

Edit: I think the line between public transit and shared vehicles will get very blurry in the future. The days of running massive empty buses along set routes are obviously limited considering there is no need for it with today's technology. Everything is moving towards on-demand at the neighbourhood level and I am willing to bet what picks you up (whether ride share or public transit) will vary on the demand as well once everything is automated. No more buses with three people feeding mass transit. Automated electric vehicles of all sizes responding to exact demand in real time.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Car sharing will reduce the number of vehicles in parking lots, but it won't reduce the number of vehicles on the road at a given moment in time, as the same number of vehicles will be need to be on the road to transport a given number of people. If anything it will increase the number of vehicles on the road as they will need to deadhead from where it drops one person off to where it needs to pick up the next person.

I'm really curious to see how "fully automated" vehicles optimize the traffic flow on the streets.

Basically, if everyone is following all the rules (to a T) all the time, will things actually speed up?

For example, rounding a curve on a freeway into the setting sun normally would cause someone to slow down or slightly brake... thus initiating a traffic jam in busy conditions. One example of a kind of issue that would disappear...

[lrt's friend]

Automated vehicles will be obligated to not go above the speed limit. This will increase congestion.

[Harley613]

There are thousands of Youtube videos that show how traffic jams form. Automated vehicles will avoid the human responses that cause them.

The big challenge for automated cars, in my opinion, is how to get them to work in our climate during the winter months. I have to wipe off my backup camera on my truck three times a day in the winter to keep it clean. An automated vehicle relies on many cameras and sensors that would get dirty really fast on a winter day in Ottawa. I'm also curious how they will handle black ice, slush, and other conditions where available traction can change abruptly.

[J.OT13]

From Leiper's newsletter.

The Built-Heritage Sub-Committee "will also receive an information memo on the future of the Alexandra Bridge. ".

http://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/mtgvi...doctype=AGENDA

[J.OT13]

Levine: How to get people across the Ottawa River — and save our heritage bridgesLevine: How to get people across the Ottawa River — and save our heritage bridges

More reversible lanes, and drawing on past rail practice, could provide less costly transit than what's proposed today.

George Bruce Levine
Jun 07, 2021 - 3 minute read

The future of the 120-year-old Alexandra Bridge across the Ottawa River has been the subject of several scenarios, none of which presents a clear winner. Each view so far has featured one element of the problem in isolation. A strategic analysis might provide a more practical and less costly solution for getting people across the river.

Let’s begin with an inventory of the six bridges that span the river. Three of them — the Macdonald-Cartier, Portage and Champlain bridges — are “beam bridges,” which carry a roadway on massive girders. The first two of this type each provide six lanes for traffic, three in each direction, while the Champlain Bridge carries three lanes, with two in each direction. This asymmetry is caused by a reversing lane, which carries traffic in one direction or the other during peak periods.

The Alexandra and Chaudière bridges are of the “steel-truss type,” each carrying only two traffic lanes, and the disused Prince of Wales Bridge, which carried a railway across the river until 2007, is also of this structural type.

Together, these bridges provide 19 automobile traffic lanes, 10 in either direction. If the reversing-lane system — the one used on the Champlain Bridge — were implemented on both the Macdonald-Cartier and Portage bridges, there would be total of 12 automobile lanes available at peak times. This would be a very cost-effective way to increase the overall capacity of our bridges, and it would allow the closure to automobile traffic of the Alexandra Bridge.

Now let’s consider the future of the Alexandra Bridge without cars. This venerable bridge was built primarily to carry mainline trains and the Hull Electric Railway across the Ottawa River, as well as some horse-drawn and motorized vehicles. The railway continued south along a ledge below Major’s Hill Park, to the Château Laurier hotel and Union Station. The return to this pattern of use would allow the new Gatineau Tramway to cross the Alexandra Bridge, taking STO passengers to the most prominent crossroads in Ottawa, where Rideau and Wellington streets intersect with Sussex and Colonel By drives. The visual impact of a tramway “terminus” there would be enhanced by using the former photography museum pavilion One Wellington St. as its public entrance. What’s old is new again!

But the STO tramway system would still need a “transfer station” where its passengers could gain direct access to the O-Train system. A new tramway station adjacent to OC Transpo’s Bayview Station would be well suited for this purpose, with the Trillium Line carrying passengers from there south, and the Confederation Line carrying passengers both east and west across Ottawa. This is the obvious crossroads for the O-Train and tramway systems, providing STO passengers single-transfer access to the entire O-Train system.

Neither the development of the “terminus’ at One Wellington St. nor the “transfer station” adjacent to Bayview Station would require ripping up busy streets, boring tunnels, risking geological surprises (sinkholes), or massive investment. The major civil engineering work has already been done and awaits imaginative use.

Furthermore, this approach would satisfy our desire to conserve our heritage railway bridges, while providing environmentally friendly transit and active pathways, all at a fraction of the cost of some of the options currently under consideration.

There are four key elements to this strategy: 1) optimization of existing road bridges by installing more reversing lanes; 2) maintenance of automobile traffic on the Portage Bridge; 3) use of the Alexandra and Prince of Wales bridges to carry people across the Ottawa River in trams rather than in cars; and 4) creation of specialized tramway stations at One Wellington St. and the Bayview O-Train station to serve cross-river commuters.

George Bruce Levine holds degrees in architecture and design methodology and has consulted on pre-design project planning in Ottawa. He formerly contributed articles to the Citizen’s “Cityscape” column. He is a member of Heritage Ottawa and a supporter of the Alexandra Bridge Coalition, though the opinions expressed here are his own.

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/le...ritage-bridges