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  #61  
Old Posted May 19, 2007, 6:35 AM
Drmyeyes Drmyeyes is offline
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"The reason we get places like North Bethany and downtown Beaverton (well, ok, the whole city of Beaverton) is due to single-use low-rise zoning codes. They're still stuck in the 60s and just flat-out don't allow mixed use or highrise buildings." zilfondel

I can't put my finger on exactly where it says that in city codes, but I think what you're saying is true zilfondel. What I'm wondering is, if that truly is the case, why they wouldn't permit them. This seems like a really important question to have answered.

Possibly explaining this:Amongst Beaverton residents and leaders, perhaps there's an aversion to highrises based on such buildings association with notorious highrise projects of Chicago, NYC and Eastern Europe. Maybe Beaverton has had a fear that the state or federal government would foist a huge vertical ghetto upon them rather than an elegant living tower, if the city permitted highrises.
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  #62  
Old Posted May 19, 2007, 3:43 PM
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Drmyeyes, I've always thought Americans were historically against cities, partially due to the immigrant experience, either living in slums in Europe or here after arrival. Plus the whole notion of American heroes - the individual, the lone cowboy etc - I'm sure an English major could do a much better job. At this point, it seems like suburban and urban residents are almost living in different cultures entirely, like Shi'a and Sunni. Obviously not at each others' throats in the same way, but similarly unable and unwilling, for the most part, to understand each other, or at least each others' values/goals. At least that's what I get from eavesdropping on the hopeless suburbanites in the next cubicle.

Re: zoning, wasn't there a big push in the 50's to separate residential from commercial so that people in their new tract houses would have "peace and quiet"? An aversion to mixed-use and high-rises in Beaverton's zoning code wouldn't surprise me in the least.
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  #63  
Old Posted May 19, 2007, 7:27 PM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drmyeyes View Post
"The reason we get places like North Bethany and downtown Beaverton (well, ok, the whole city of Beaverton) is due to single-use low-rise zoning codes. They're still stuck in the 60s and just flat-out don't allow mixed use or highrise buildings." zilfondel

I can't put my finger on exactly where it says that in city codes, but I think what you're saying is true zilfondel. What I'm wondering is, if that truly is the case, why they wouldn't permit them. This seems like a really important question to have answered.
Actually, (almost) every city in the United States relies on zoning codes to separate and isolate 'uses' geographically and spatially. The direct result of this planning methodology is the modern american metropolitan city - commercial over there, strip malls over by the freeway exits, luxury residential there, middle-class housing there, and the ghetto low-income apartment complexes stuffed between the strip malls and the industrial factories.

It was actually an offshoot of the Modernist movement during the 1920s - giving planners a way to rationalize town planning by separating so-called incompatible uses by compartmentalizing towns. Some of the earliest attempts at was the Garden City Movement.
One of the largest reasons for this separation was due to the horrible conditions of the American industrialized city of the 19th century - dirty, overcrowded, belching smoke from coal plants, metal smelters, paper mills and the like. Average lifespans in London during the industrial revolution were less than 40 years!

As posted by wikipedia:
Quote:
Theoretically, its primary purpose is to segregate uses that are thought to be incompatible; in practice, zoning is used as a permitting system to prevent new development from harming existing residents or businesses.
While cities like Portland have gone a long ways from the 1960s, where many municipalities adopted zoning standards, such as minimum street widths (60', 70', 80') for commercial and residential zones, setbacks for housing, banning multifamily housing from neighborhoods, maximum house coverage of lot, min lot sizes, etc... which pretty much made it impossible to build or renovate denser building stock in the central cities. Those actions were also backed up by the federal government, where they subsidized housing mortgages.

======================

Anyways, the point of my little history lesson above is to say that Beaverton hasn't progressed since the regression of the 1960s! They are still stuck in the old-school suburbia mindset - which ironically lacks any rational thought as to how to plan a city. Places like Hillsboro, Gresham, and Vancouver have started to think and make changes, but are, of course, faaaaaar behind Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver. But then, small suburban towns aren't exactly known for their progressive leaders.

Unfortunately, places like Vancouver, Seattle, and Portland are likewise lightyears behind places like Barcelona, which pretty much epitomizes progressive city planning and development.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drmyeyes View Post
Possibly explaining this:Amongst Beaverton residents and leaders, perhaps there's an aversion to highrises based on such buildings association with notorious highrise projects of Chicago, NYC and Eastern Europe. Maybe Beaverton has had a fear that the state or federal government would foist a huge vertical ghetto upon them rather than an elegant living tower, if the city permitted highrises.
I honestly don't think people in Beaverton (or any suburb in Portland) really have that much of an aversion to high-density living... the ghettos of the past have largely been forgotten by people today. Instead, people are just are more used to living in the suburbs. They stick with what is comfortable, and don't try to challenge themselves. What can I say? People are lazy.
The reason their are no highrises in Beaverton is mainly due to economics; no developer has tried to build one yet. And, due to the 'flexibility' [corruptibility] of suburban leaders, I would suspect that as soon as a developer tried to build one, the possibility of jobs and money would likely make it quite easy for it to get built...

======================

This all comes down to... why won't Beaverton permit them? Simple:
  • No developers have approached them with any progressive development ideas
  • Beaverton is following 'business as usual' reminiscent of development circa 1960
  • Noone has sat down and tried to figure out where all of the new jobs and 1 million new metro residents are going to live - which is actually Metro's job. They figure that they will just keep expanding the Urban Growth Boundary bit by bit to accomdate them all!
  • Most importantly, any change would require a lot of thought! This includes infrastructure upgrades, new transit lines, parks, possibly schools, location and types of residential units, commercial, and retail - which we call Planning. Beaverton doesn't plan, so hence, nothing will happen.


Now, if I had 2 billion in cash lying around, I would buy up the entire central area of Beaverton, draw up some new plans for the area, and pay off the mayor and council members to get some super-high density stuff permitted - and built. Then I would retire, quite rich. I mean, there are likely hundreds of acres of underdeveloped lots within walking distance of the Sunset TC, Beaverton TC, and the Round... which is what? 10 minutes from downtown Portland???

Oh, if I were rich...

on the same vein, the reason any mixed-use project like the Round will fail is due to critical mass: it doesn't exist. There needs to be, first and foremost, enough people living in an area to patronize businesses to make them work... otherwise you have to convince suburbanites to drive and park (in shiny new parking garages!) at your new mixed-use development to make it work.

Vancouver, Canada has done the opposite: they build TONS of residential units and hope that businesses follow.


sorry for the dissertation... and it's probably not as coherent as it should be. But it is a very interesting topic, to be sure, as it affects everybody.

Last edited by zilfondel; May 19, 2007 at 7:36 PM.
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  #64  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2007, 8:20 PM
360Rich 360Rich is offline
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Developer of Round defaults on $31.5 million loan

Developer of Round defaults on $31.5 million loan
Posted by The Oregonian July 26, 2007 11:51AM
Categories: Breaking News, Business, Washington County

BEAVERTON -- The developer of the Round at Beaverton Central, the troubled mixed-use project along MAX light rail, is in default on a $31.5 million loan, according to legal documents.

The creditor has filed a notice of foreclosure in Washington County against DPP Beaverton Holdings LLC, a subsidiary of developer Dorn-Platz Properties of California. The filing claims that the developer hasn't made payments since December.

The notice, which was first reported by the Beaverton Valley Times this morning, calls for a foreclosure sale of the property in a little more than four months if Dorn-Platz is unable to get current with payments.

However, city officials said this morning that the two sides are expected to settle the dispute. Linda Adlard, the city's chief of staff, said the filing was a "hiccup" and shouldn't affect the long-term prospects for the development.

"I can't tell the significance of this except that (Dorn-Platz) and his financial partnership have gotten into a hassle," she said.

Representatives of Dorn-Platz did not return telephone calls for comment today.

The Lake Oswego lawyer representing DB Beaverton LLC, Douglas Cushing, also could not be reached for comment this morning.

The Round has struggled since 1997, when the city sold the former sewage treatment plant to a developer and called for multistory buildings with ground-floor retail and restaurants with housing and offices above.

The first developer declared bankruptcy, and the city took back control of the site in 2001. Later that year, Dorn-Platz took over the project. However, the city declared Dorn-Platz in default of its development agreement, penalized the developer and signed a new agreement.

Four buildings on the site are complete, with four more scheduled to be built by summer 2008.

http://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingn...faults_on.html
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  #65  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2007, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
four more scheduled to be built by summer 2008
what are the chances of these 4 other buildings getting built?
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  #66  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2007, 12:10 AM
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To be honest, I am bullish on Beaverton. I do not think, the financial problems with this particular developer will impede new development in the area. This location is too important to the City, to let slide. Hopefully, the City will use this as a wake-up call to jump start this project.
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  #67  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2007, 2:38 AM
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I'm curious to know what was the cause behind the company's lack of payment. Does anyone know how well the Round sold? Was it simply negligence on part of the company or lack of sales?
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  #68  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2007, 5:57 AM
Drmyeyes Drmyeyes is offline
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Been awhile since this thread came up. You got some good thoughts in your post Zilfondel. I think there's good reasons to be bullish on Beaverton as Drew-Ski is.

I think someone else posting here did the following and recommended it, but I'm going to re-suggest it since I did it recently and it gave me a nice perspective on Beaverton and it's potential: Go to the Round and ascend to the top level of the parking structure there. It's probably the highest centrally located physical structure in town that the public can get to easily. From there you'll be able to take in a 360 degree view of the area, all the way to St Vincent's hospital northeast, south to the library, southwest to Cooper Mtn, east to West Slope. Just don't ride your bike up to the top of the parking structure because the single security nazi went into storm trooper mode when he discovered me with my bike up there.

I've walked over to the Round a few times. I really hate to be critical, because it has some nice features; a little plaza, nice water feature, good outside eating areas, but there is about it, some grossly major design flaws. Maybe it's just me, but I would not want to live there. I'm not sure I'd want to work there either. Why? This development is very close to the MAX line. The noise from the very quiet MAX is amplified by the Round's concave shape. Sitting there in the little plaza, the whoosh from the MAX is dramatic. Still, some people do like that experience. Maybe this will be it's saving grace.

The structure itself; the sheathing materials, as well as that of the building's across the tracks from it (office, parking) are not attractive. That seems like a major mistake in a complex that a city government hopes to pitch as a pivotal urban center.

I think that looking around from the top of the parking structure, it may be possible for enthusiastic people with ambition, fresh ideas and an aspiration to do something great, to get some idea of the connectivity that Beaverton must somehow achieve before it can begin less of a car dominated livability than it has now.

What were my impressions? First of all, it's not the first reaction one might think of in regards to Beaverton, but I found it very beautiful (it was at sunset). Lots and lots of trees blended with lots and lots of buildings. From up there, I felt like I could see a clear vision of a vast bike/pedestrian, streetcar boulevard connecting some of Beaverton's key, but rather distantly separated points; Beav Old Town, Beav Town Sq, Cedar Mill Crossing, Beav Library, probably West Slope.

In between, there's endless opportunities for multi-level structures if supported by good transportation options. So much of Beaverton's main business strips are single level structures. In some ways it's much easier to knock that kind of stuff down for something better than it is to change things in a place like downtown Portland. Beaverton's leaders really need to be thinking of the bigger picture. These little bits and pieces like the Round just aren't going to cut it.
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  #69  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2007, 8:44 AM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
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^ Critical Mass, baby... you're right on the money, Drmyeyes.
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  #70  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2007, 3:09 PM
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This is perhaps a bit off topic, but a friend and I looked at a couple of units in the Round last Summer and I was highly disappointed at the sloppy construction and cheap materials.

Last edited by sirsimon; Jul 28, 2007 at 3:28 PM. Reason: Added missing "I"
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  #71  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2007, 4:02 PM
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^My partner and I looked at the Round too. I thought the layouts of the condos were innovative, but the materials used and construction looked sloppy. I also had a problem with the view of the unit we were looking at, looking straight at the parking garage. I had thoughts of headlights beaming into my place from those workout junkie going to 24Hour at 3AM. What really got me was the prices. They rivaled many of Portland's condos. In fact, we looked at a unit in the Civic that was cheaper than at the Round, and in a higher floor, although the square footage was slightly less. But the 'innovative' condo designs of the Round also created lots of unusable space in the unit.

I have hopes for Beaverton, but I think this project, and the string of bad luck that now extends decades, will probably slow down and scale back anything else to come forward for at least a few years.

Anyway, here is the O's story in its entirety:

Developer of Round in default on loan
Beaverton - A city official downplays the problem as a "hiccup" for the troubled project
Friday, July 27, 2007
DAVID R. ANDERSON
The Oregonian

BEAVERTON -- The developer of the Round at Beaverton Central, the troubled urban style project along MAX light rail, is in default on a $31.5 million loan and the lender is asking that a third party take control of the development, according to legal documents.

The creditor has filed a notice of foreclosure in Washington County against DPP Beaverton Holdings, a subsidiary of developer Dorn-Platz Properties of California. The filing claims that the developer hasn't made payments since December.

The notice calls for a foreclosure sale of the property in a little more than four months if Dorn-Platz is unable to get current with payments.

A lawyer for the lender, DB Beaverton, has also filed a complaint in Washington County Circuit Court asking a judge to appoint a receiver to take possession and manage the Round.

However, city officials said Thursday morning that the two sides are expected to settle the dispute. Linda Adlard, the city's chief of staff, said the filing was a "hiccup" and shouldn't affect the long-term prospects for the development.

"I can't tell the significance of this except that (Dorn-Platz) and his financial partnership have gotten into a hassle," she said.

In addition to the legal problems, the main anchor to one building under construction has opted out of the deal and is moving to Portland.

Representatives of Dorn-Platz have not returned repeated phone calls in recent weeks and did not return calls Thursday.

Douglas Cushing, a Lake Oswego lawyer representing creditor DB Beaverton, also did not return calls Thursday. An assistant said Cushing's client did not want him to comment.

The news of the foreclosure, first reported by the Beaverton Valley Times on Thursday, comes as the city is seeking a developer to buy the former Westgate Theatre site next to the Round and develop it in a similar fashion, with multistory buildings of ground-floor retail and housing and offices above, with structured parking.

The Round has struggled since 1997, when the city sold the former sewage treatment plant to a developer and called for multistory buildings with ground-floor retail and restaurants with housing and offices above.

The first developer declared bankruptcy, and the city took back control of the site in 2001. Later that year, Dorn-Platz took over the project. However, the city declared Dorn-Platz in default of its development agreement, penalized the developer and signed a new agreement in June 2005.

Four buildings on the site are complete. However, four more are scheduled to be built and completed in a year, according to the most recent development agreement with the city. Rusting rebar

Crews began work on one of those buildings over the winter, driving pilings into the ground. However, no work has gone on for several months. The site has rusting rebar and yellow warning tape that has faded white.

Still, Adlard said Dorn-Platz has not fallen behind its construction schedule.

"Things are moving, but it may be behind the scenes a bit," Adlard said.

If Dorn-Platz falls behind, it would violate its development agreement with the city.

It appears that the foreclosure also affects the four buildings, on which the city has issued certificates of completion. That means the city has no ownership interest or control over those buildings, said City Attorney Alan Rappleyea. If the city finds there are liens or other claims against sites yet to be developed, that could be another reason for default.

If the city declared Dorn-Platz in violation of the development agreement, it could seize a $250,000 security deposit and take control of vacant parcels. Anchor tenant exits

Meanwhile, the anchor tenant of the five-story office building where construction has halted backed out of the deal because Dorn-Platz fell behind schedule. Sedgwick Claims Management Services had planned to consolidate its Portland and Lake Oswego offices at the Round, said Frank Huffman, a company spokesman. It was set to lease two floors of the building. But a provision in its agreement allowed Sedgwick to opt out if Dorn-Platz fell behind.

The company is now scheduled to move into about 30,000 square feet of office space at the Lloyd Center in September, Huffman said.

Retail space at the Round has been slow to fill. The ground floor remains vacant in a parking garage that opened last year. And there is still vacant retail space in the first building that opened in 2003.

Dorn-Platz and other defendants also face a $9.4 million lawsuit from residents of condominiums at the Round, who say the units were constructed poorly and have water damage.

David R. Anderson: 503-294-5199; davidanderson@ news.oregonian.com
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/orego...790.xml&coll=7
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  #72  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2007, 3:57 PM
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The Round is ahead of the curve


photos - Benjamin Brink, The Oregonian

Suburban growth - The question for the Beaverton project is whether the market will ever catch up
Monday, August 06, 2007
DAVID R. ANDERSON
The Oregonian Staff

BEAVERTON -- The Round at Beaverton Central is either ahead of its time or a century too late.

Now that the developer is apparently in default on its loan -- the third failing of the 10-year-old, half-finished project -- many wonder whether multistory buildings of retail/office/condominiums were doomed to flop in the suburbs.

Even national advocates for transit-oriented development admit the Round has been a mistake, the wrong product in the wrong location, a misplaced Pearl District. They don't want a failure in Beaverton to taint other efforts in the Portland area or across the country, where projects in the Bay Area, Los Angeles and northern Virginia, to name a few, have succeeded.

The Round proves that mass transit -- in this case, MAX light rail -- can't turn a losing development idea into a winner, said Dena Belzer, president of Strategic Economics, an urban economics consulting firm specializing in transit-oriented development, based in Berkeley, Calif.

"This project is just hanging out there in the wind," Belzer said. "I think no individual project can transform an entire district."

Proponents say that's a reason that Metro and Beaverton should persevere and do more to support the Round. The city is looking for a developer to buy the 4.6-acre site of the former Westgate Theatre next to the Round and build more of the same type of development. That will create a destination, they say.

Backers argue for patience. They say that if developers and public agencies don't try something new, a timid market will never change. They point to Belmont Dairy in Southeast Portland and Kruse Way in Lake Oswego as projects ahead of their time that defied skeptics and ended up succeeding.

"It's part of a longer-term effort to redevelop what was once, and may again be, central Beaverton," said Ethan Seltzer, a Portland State University professor of urban studies and planning. "The market has a lot of work to do in that area."

With officials from developer Dorn-Platz refusing to comment, observers are left to speculate about the reason for the most recent bad news at the Round. Was it a bad idea, bad location or bad execution? Or has the project acquired a stink from early failures?

Carl Hosticka, the Metro councilor who represents part of Beaverton, likens the Round's latest lurch to a plane crash -- it's either "pilot error or a problem with the plane."

"Pilot error"

Hosticka, an advocate of such development around the region, is inclined to blame the developer. He has heard that Dorn-Platz causes a crisis and asks for government concessions to get out of the jam, he said.

But the Round had a history of troubles before Dorn-Platz became involved.

The first developer went bankrupt in 1999. Dorn-Platz took over the project just months before Sept. 11, 2001, and the following economic downturn. City officials in 2004 declared it in default of their agreement, seized a $500,000 bond and negotiated a new construction schedule. Four of eight planned buildings have been completed, but construction has come to a halt.

City officials say they have been told that Dorn-Platz has a new construction loan and hopes to settle the default case soon. Construction should resume by the end of the month, said Linda Adlard, the city's chief of staff.

But skeptics say the problem is more fundamental. With a seven-story parking garage and development that suburbanites aren't used to seeing, some say it's just the wrong idea for that location.

Gloria Ohland, a spokeswoman with the Center for Transit-Oriented Development, has visited the Round twice and cites two significant stumbling blocks: It's a complex mixed-use project that includes office space, when the office market is weak. And it includes structured parking in a city with vast surface parking lots.

"Those projects are much harder and more expensive to build," said Ohland, vice president of Reconnecting America, a national nonprofit based in Oakland that runs the center.

If anyone has the right to question the idea of the Round, it's Heather Humelbaugh.

She opened Urban Rhythms Coffee Co. in December 2005 at the Round, enamored of the idea that people could live and work in the same neighborhood as her coffee shop. It also helped to have a captive customer base in the students at Cambridge College, the folks working out at 24 Hour Fitness and the MAX riders.

Then Dorn-Platz took away the parking next to her shop to start construction of a fifth building at the Round. And nothing happened for months. Less foot traffic passes her door, and she doesn't know when, if ever, office workers from the new five-story building will come in seeking a latte.

Business is so slow, Humelbaugh says, she'll probably close the doors before her lease is up in 31/2 years. But she says she still believes in the Round. And she thinks it will only get better when the Westgate site opens.

"It's the up-and-coming thing," she said. "I think it will work eventually. I think in the future, it will be an awesome spot."

Problem with design?

Frankly, critics say, the Round cannot stand on its own as designed and is an indictment of the notion that light rail, instead of the marketplace, can spur development. The only way such projects can get developer interest, they say, is with big public subsidies.

John Charles, president of the Cascade Policy Institute, a libertarian-leaning think tank, said he has followed the Round for the past decade and estimates that government agencies have poured about $20 million into the project.

The idea that development will follow mass transit comes from the streetcars of the late 1800s and early 1900s, but doesn't work today, he said. "It's about 100 years behind the times."

Hosticka counters that all residential construction is subsidized. Newly urbanized areas such as Pleasant Valley and North Bethany will require heavy investments in roads, schools and other public infrastructure, he said. If the region is to accommodate growth, he said, he would rather see infill in places like the Round than in the middle of established neighborhoods.

Brokers who lease retail and office space in the Round remain optimistic. But they acknowledge the project has had a cash-flow problem. Empty storefronts and office space aren't helping pay for construction of the four remaining buildings.

The challenge has been getting tenants to move into a construction zone, said Steve Neville of New & Neville, who has been leasing retail space.

Although Sedgwick Claims Management Services, the anchor tenant for one of the new office buildings, backed out of the deal, it was because of construction delays, not a loss of interest, said Frank Huffman, a company spokesman.

Buzz Ellis, a principal in Pacific Real Estate Partners, the leasing agent for the office space, rejects the notion that new pockets of class A office space in the suburbs don't reflect the market. He points to Kruse Way and Lincoln Center near Washington Square.

"It's kind of the evolution of suburban office parks," he said.

And Hosticka is unapologetic that the market wouldn't have built the Round without government incentives.

"We're not necessarily trying to respond to a market," he said. "We're trying to lead a market."

David R. Anderson: 503-294-5199; davidanderson@ news.oregonian.com

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/orego...520.xml&coll=7

Last edited by 360Rich; Aug 6, 2007 at 4:31 PM.
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  #73  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2007, 5:14 PM
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Could they have compared the Round to Kruse way more? Seriously, the two projects are like night and day-one developed from ideal market conditions (extensive executive housing, a new major highway, large cheap land) versus a government mandate-you can't mandate market demand! This isn't forward thinking, it's stupid! There. I've said it.
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  #74  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2007, 3:27 AM
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Out of curiosity, has the Round decreased rental prices as a result of their lacking popularity? I personally would love to know of all the transit-oriented apt complexes around Portland. I have asked this question in a previous thread but didn't get much of a response. Besides orenco, the round, and center commons, where else can you literally have light rail on your doorsteps without being in downtown Portland? They need to have a website that list all rentals near light rail. For an out of towner that would be really informative considering i will be moving to this beautiful city.
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  #75  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2007, 3:49 AM
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I don't remember the name of the place but there are some decent GSL apartments at the NW185th st. stop. And Orenco Station is not really at MAX's doorstep, its more like five blocks away.
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  #76  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2007, 4:35 AM
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Orenco has been moving South ...

... to the point that there is construction almost to the MAX station. And there is already residential build out on the South Side of the Orenco MAX Stop.

One successful retail/residential/office development next to MAX has been out in Gresham (Gresham Station). But the PDX and Westside crowd doesn't get out to Gresham much to see the new town center or the Old Town and the condos going up there.

Gresham's success near MAX has been slow in coming and is based on a mix of having auto and MAX access but also the location (views of Mt. Hood from Gresham are awesome since you are 1 to 30 miles closer then the rest of PDX).

The apartments near the Beavercreek MAX stop is another nice area (close to NIKE HQ too).

EP
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  #77  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2007, 5:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Okstate View Post
Out of curiosity, has the Round decreased rental prices as a result of their lacking popularity? I personally would love to know of all the transit-oriented apt complexes around Portland. I have asked this question in a previous thread but didn't get much of a response. Besides orenco, the round, and center commons, where else can you literally have light rail on your doorsteps without being in downtown Portland? They need to have a website that list all rentals near light rail. For an out of towner that would be really informative considering i will be moving to this beautiful city.
aren't the residential units at the round all condos? i don't think there are any rentals there.

like most people here have said, the beaverton and hillsboro sections of the blue line probably have the most decent residential. closer to downtown, the three stops from goose hollow to the stadium are near decent apts, especially goose hollow. there's residential within a few blocks of hollywood/42nd and some near 60th (center commons). east burnside has lots of residential, but from what i understand that area's rapidly turning into crackville, especially the further east you go. and then apparently downtown gresham has decent residential as well, although i barely ever get out there and can't say for sure :-). the yellow line has residential within a block or two of most stations, but i think it's more houses than apts. not much residential along the red line. but wherever you go, you probably will have to walk a bit. but then, that's to some extent why you want to come here, isn't it?
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  #78  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2007, 10:20 AM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
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When I rode the MAX to Gresham I noticed a couple of nicer apartments near MAX stations. Others looked cheap and crappy, however.

As nice as "TOD" is, however, if the only urban amenity your apartment has is a MAX stop, it will wear thin after awhile. Better to live in a real urban environment where you can actually have access to a bunch of stuff - especially when using your feet.

Real Portlanders ride the bus.
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  #79  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2007, 3:45 PM
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vjoe vjoe is offline
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It looks like there are some construction going on next to the Orenco station stop across from 231st. They are just breaking ground now.
There are a bunch of condo on Quatama stop, some are probably rental.
The stop after the Hillsboro airport has a bunch of apartments around it. This is the start of the Latino neighborhood and there are good Mexican restaurants in this area.
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  #80  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2007, 6:40 PM
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Okstate Okstate is offline
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How long does it take to get into downtown from the furthest east and west lines of MAX? Do PSU students get a discount by chance? I know in Denver, their light rail is covered in the universities fees at U of Colorado-Denver.
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