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  #81  
Old Posted Jan 5, 2019, 4:36 PM
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  #82  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2019, 3:22 PM
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Higher ceilings Barnett. Make them pay for this insolence.


https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs...de-skyscraper-

City Revokes Permits for Planned West Side Sky­scraper


JAN. 17, 2019


Quote:
The city Department of Buildings has changed its mind and will revoke permits for a supertall tower in Manhattan.

The development company Extell is planning a proposed 775-foot tall skyscraper at 50 West 66th Street near Lincoln Center.

Elected officials and advocacy groups slammed the project, saying the architects had found a loophole to make the building taller than it should be.

The theory is that a high floor apartment is worth more because the view is better.

So the design calls for putting the upper floors of the building on stilts. They would do that by building a mechanical room closer to the building's base.

The mechanical room proposed had a 150 foot high ceiling, not because there’s a 150 foot tall piece of machinery. But because that high ceiling lifts the rest of the building higher.

The adjustment makes the view that much better in every apartment above.

One of the challengers has been Manhattan Borough President Gale Brewer who said, "This is a victory not only for the Upper West Side, but for communities all over the city that find themselves outgunned by developers who try to bend or break zoning rules."
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  #83  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2019, 4:30 PM
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this won't hold up in court. Other developers have already built towers using the same loophole, which the DOB approved of. Like this one. Pathetic and hypocritical move by the city, probably egged on by Upper West Side NIMBYs.

https://www.cityrealty.com/nyc/marke...st-condo/27746



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  #84  
Old Posted Jan 17, 2019, 6:36 PM
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Here's the good news, now that the city has decided to regulate mechanical spaces in residential buildings that 100% adhere to city zoning laws, literally every other issue with the city must be solved. We did it!!!
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  #85  
Old Posted Jan 19, 2019, 2:27 AM
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Official explanation from DOB...


http://gothamist.com/2019/01/18/uws_...6th_extell.php

Quote:
"DOB determined that the 160-foot void proposed for this building is not customarily found in residential buildings, and so is contrary to the Zoning Resolution. In addition, we have raised objections, which the developer has not addressed, that occupants of the building may not be able to get from one emergency stairway to the other, as is required, within the proposed void."

Extell, which is both credited and maligned for starting the supertall boom with its Midtown luxury building known as One57, now has 15 days from January 14th in which to respond to the DOB’s letter.

According to information provided by the DOB, the builder faces two choices: it can revise the design of the mechanical space or it can proceed to build a 25-story tower which had been the original plan the developer had filed with the DOB in 2017. At the time, the proposed tower's relatively modest height, which could have been taller as of right, drew suspicions. Later that year, residents' worst fears were realized when the new design was revealed. In a New York Times story, Gary Barnett, the company's founder, brushed off the concerns, joking that by today's standards, “A 700-footer doesn’t even rank anymore” as a super-tall tower.

They forgot option 3 : Sue those motherfarmers!
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  #86  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2019, 1:22 PM
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  #87  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2019, 3:06 AM
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I really wish the City would tackle real life problems that affect people with the same kind of urgency. I'm not against this particular rezoning, but it goes to show once again, the right people have to complain for action to be taken.

Anyway, here's the pdf of the plan which gives a good look at how it would take shape, all pretty reasonable. However, this tower she be allowed to move as planned since it is already under construction, and the proposed rezoning doesn't even exists yet. I really hope Barnett sues. And if he doesn't, he needs to build floors with higher ceilings or some type of enlarged spire or crown on top. Maybe something resembling a middle finger. These people have to be taught.

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/planning...cp110y-eas.pdf
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  #88  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2019, 4:29 AM
tjr101 tjr101 is offline
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In a way I agree with the city. The size of these mechanical floors are beyond ridiculous now. Just increase the ceiling height or better yet, build more habitable floors instead of having these huge voids and making up inflated floor counts.
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  #89  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2019, 8:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjr101 View Post
In a way I agree with the city. The size of these mechanical floors are beyond ridiculous now. Just increase the ceiling height or better yet, build more habitable floors instead of having these huge voids and making up inflated floor counts.
Nothing wrong with some new planning, but as long as there isn't a law, the buildings that are being built legally are within their rights to do so.

What I find issue with is the speed at which they jumped to action, with all of the problems in New York City that need to be tackled, they jumped in on this. And oh look, everyone's rushing to action, and getting more ridiculous with it.


https://www.crainsnewyork.com/real-e...op-luxe-towers

State legislators want to supercede city's rules to chop luxe towers


February 15, 2019
JOE ANUTA


Quote:
State legislators are hoping to one-up the de Blasio administration and enact strict controls over mechanical voids—the cavernous hollow spaces in luxury apartment buildings that boost the altitude of the uppermost floors.

State Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal introduced a bill this week designed to penalize developers who include floors with unnecessarily high ceilings—in some cases topping 150 feet—to house mechanical equipment. "While the city has been working on this for at least a year, people were not satisfied that it took so long and now not satisfied that the plan goes far enough," she said.
Quote:
The administration introduced its proposal to discourage the empty spaces last month. However, some community groups have said that the proposed regulations do not go far enough and have expressed support for the stricter measures outlined in Rosenthal's bill, which will be sponsored by Robert Jackson in the state Senate.

"We're a much bigger fan of her approach," said Andrew Berman, executive director of the Greenwich Village Society for Historic Preservation. "The city bill would do virtually nothing to address the problem."

Rosenthal's proposed legislation would not only regulate the height of mechanical spaces, but would discourage developers from building any floor with ceilings higher than 12 feet—a sweeping stricture that would likely galvanize a real estate industry already opposed to the mechanical void crackdown if the plan starts gaining momentum.


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  #90  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2019, 4:37 AM
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Back at it again, just in time to fix something that doesn't need fixing..


https://ny.curbed.com/2019/2/19/1823...inda-rosenthal

State lawmaker proposes limits on ceiling heights to curb excessively tall towers
“I think if you’re going to do this, its got to be go big or go home,” said Assembly member Linda Rosenthal






By Caroline Spivack
Feb 19, 2019


Quote:
A state lawmaker is gunning for more aggressive restrictions on the vast mechanical voids developers often abuse to boost their buildings’ heights as a “more robust” solution to the de Blasio administration’s recent zoning amendment.

The bill, introduced last week by New York State Assembly member Linda Rosenthal, seeks to penalize developers who build cavernously high ceilings to house mechanical equipment as a means of elevating a building without officially contributing to its overall allowable size. Rosenthal’s legislation comes less than a month after the city’s proposal to count voids beyond a certain height towards a building’s footprint.

“I’ve been working on this for quite some time so it sort of dovetails with the city’s amendment, but I’ve spoken with advocates and residents who are just dismayed that what’s being built is increasingly taller and taller these days,” said Rosenthal. “They’re being built taller because developers are taking advantage of these voids and that has to stop.”

Current zoning exempts mechanical voids from a building’s floor-area ratio (FAR)—a given property’s square footage—and puts no height limits on those spaces. Luxury developers often exploit this loophole in residential towers to hike up the price for apartments on higher floors.
Quote:
Rosenthal’s proposed amendment to the state’s multiple dwelling law goes beyond regulating void heights and seeks to discourage developers from building any floor with ceilings higher than 12 feet. The move would undoubtedly provoke ire from the real estate industry, which already opposes the city’s efforts to close the mechanical void loophole.

“I think if you’re going to do this, its got to be go big or go home,” said Rosenthal, who calls the city’s amendment a “good first step” but believes it doesn’t go far enough. “Developers know what they’re doing, and if it’s not a comprehensive change I think developers are going to be one step ahead.”

Although mechanical voids have been commonly abused in recent years it wasn’t until a Rafael Viñoly-designed “building on stilts” at East 62nd Street prompted backlash for its 150-foot mechanical void stuck in the middle of the tower that the de Blasio administration sought to curtail the spaces. More recently, Upper West Siders have pushed back on an Extell tower designed by Snøhetta on West 66th Street, and the city even threatened to pull the project’s permits in January due to the large swaths of space between floors.

If passed, Rosenthal’s bill would take effect across the city, unlike the CPD’s zoning amendment, which only applies to certain districts. The state legislation would also address related issues such as certain open spaces—terraces, for instance—not counting toward a given building’s FAR.
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  #91  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2019, 4:57 AM
Prezrezc Prezrezc is offline
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Which are does that woman represent?

I'll wager that there's a sizeable cadre/cabal of hella jealous upstaters behind this effort as well.

Snøhetta and whoever else is involved with this tower need to take their case to the 2nd Circuit CoA to have the City Council's foolishness vitiated outright.
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  #92  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2019, 12:40 PM
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I don't get the logic behind this proposed chopping of towers. Nothing positive out of it. Does absolutely nothing to impact the lives of residents or make it easier for developers to build.

These state lawmakers need to remain in Upstate NY, which is failing, and let the only beacon of the state shine in its glory.
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  #93  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2019, 12:56 PM
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Yeah these massing diagrams with a hundred+ feet of mechanical space are ridiculous and clearly a simple loophole that should be closed.

Not against the height, but this is a case where a few developers took this to the extreme and are getting their just desserts for flaunting the code.

The building code and zoning code are onerous in this city. It's long and thorough, and stuff like this isn't a non issue.

THAT said. There is no reason the state should be putting their noses in this, and a blanket cap on ceiling height at 12' is asinine and is going to limit the kinds of spaces you can have in a large building.
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  #94  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2019, 1:13 PM
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Is this tower proceeding with its current design?

Also, with all of NY’s serious problems, such as a multibillion dollar budget shortfall, jobs fleeing the state for the Sunbelt, broken schools, armies of drugged out, psychotic homeless, etc., this seems like a waste of lawmakers’ time.
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  #95  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2019, 10:35 PM
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The restriction on mechanical space height is not unreasonable. But exactly how many of these towers are going up around town that pushed this issue to the forefront with urgency? Hardly any. It's just another way of trying to set height limits without actually setting height limits. And the state proposal is beyond ridiculous. How about we start setting limits on the size of apartments also, or what kind of furnishings can go inside? Sometimes stupidity reigns supreme, but it has to be reigned in.

There are so many issues that the city and state could be dealing with that affect everyday New Yorkers. But this is the issue the politicians have to jump into. Its unbelievable
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  #96  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2019, 5:49 PM
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Any news on this one?
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  #97  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2019, 6:59 PM
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Anti-skyscraper people who live in Manhattan must be eternally miserable. Imagine living amongst so much of what you hate most...
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  #98  
Old Posted Feb 27, 2019, 3:19 AM
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Credit: SideStreet
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  #99  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2019, 8:57 PM
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https://www.westsiderag.com/2019/03/...ilding-heights


[b]West Siders Face Off at Meeting Over Development Tactic that Lifts Building Heights[b]

March 11, 2019


Quote:
...During the community board meeting, many Upper West Siders declared that the amendment is not strong enough, noting that the proposed language may disincentivize developers from using excessive mechanical voids, but it does not outlaw them.

City Council Member Ben Kallos encouraged residents to support groups like Landmark West – a nonprofit that advocates to achieve landmark status for individual buildings and historic districts on the Upper West Side – as well as elected officials who have been vocal in their opposition to mechanical voids. On February 14, Assembly Member Linda Rosenthal introduced legislation to amend the New York State Multiple Dwelling Law and “close the mechanical void loophole.”

In reference to 432 Park Avenue, a luxury condominium that bills itself as “the tallest residential tower in the Western Hemisphere,” Kallos said, “This didn’t happen until you had to offer billionaires multi-million dollar views in order to be incentivized to move into our city. If we can’t get a full height cap [on buildings], which DCP has rejected, the least we can do is close as many of the loopholes as possible.”

In response to the notion of instituting a height cap for buildings, the DCP asserts that a height limit imposed on new buildings is not the solution to the particular problem of excessive mechanical voids. The agency noted that much of New York City’s architectural character is defined by an eclectic mix of buildings, including landmarks – shorter brownstones and lofty high-rises, nineteenth century row houses and gleaming modern structures, all standing side by side.

“Buildings that should be 300 feet tall are 500 feet tall because the empty space isn’t counted,” Kallos argued. “There’s something wrong when [developers] would rather build empty space rather than affordable housing.”

These people...
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  #100  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2019, 9:36 PM
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^^^^^

Relentless they are. Also a bunch of entitled snobs who think the world owes them and that the world should kiss their feet.

This is interesting:

Quote:
“This didn’t happen until you had to offer billionaires multi-million dollar views in order to be incentivized to move into our city.
"Incentivize..."?

NYC doesn't need to incentivize anybody. Supply, and DEMAND. Keyword, DEMAND.

Even if 432 Park was 1/3 the height, it would still sell. Hell, buildings with windows facing blank walls sell those very units for millions. Incentive is not the word. That would be more appropriate for a city somewhere in the wood work, but surely not NYC which has the legacy and the proven track record to attract wealth, even in times of economic turmoil or stagnation. And even in buildings of lesser magnitude, some... quite repulsive, but they sell!
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