HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces > Halifax > Halifax Peninsula & Downtown Dartmouth


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #61  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2014, 7:31 PM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nilan8888 View Post

Does all this activity mean a rejuvination of Downtown? There's been a lot of major projects and investment going on, but I'm not sure if that's translated into new businesses at street level yet. Do we have to wait for more residential towers to be built before the demand increases and the effect is felt?

I can't see how all these modifications could possibly fail in making the downtown a more desirable place to live, to locate your business, and more central all-around. Yet as recently as 2013 you get these news stories of there being less people downtown these days than ever...
I think partly, yes,we have to wait for more residential to come online...the new development and attractions will bring more visitors from other parts of the city, which is good, but a larger permanent population will definitely perk up the retail sector.

As far as those news stories, I think the local newsmedia are just addicted to negative stories. The state of journalism in Halifax is horrible--reporters can't even get basic facts straight, and rely largely on assumptions (which tend to the pessimistic) and hearsay. Hell, every major local media outlet reported yesterday that Nova Scotia has the country's second highest per capita debt, even though it's actually in fourth place. And yet big blaring headlines declared a wildly incorrect fact. Media here is abysmal.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #62  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2014, 7:37 PM
ILoveHalifax ILoveHalifax is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Palm Beach Gardens FL
Posts: 1,059
We could save the wave and possibly name our CFL team the Halifax Wave and wouldn't that all fit in.
We would have to get real good at doing the wave or is that out of style now? Am I dating myself?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #63  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2014, 7:40 PM
MonctonRad's Avatar
MonctonRad MonctonRad is offline
Wildcats Rule!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Moncton NB
Posts: 34,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
A $200 million fundraising effort could be put to many better, higher-priority projects - an aquarium, a performing arts venue, even a stadium. This would be far down any list of priorities.

This is another example of decision-makers getting distracted by bright shiny things and loud voices, instead of using public resources in any sort of priority-based manner. Is it any wonder we are drowning in public debt?
Sounds like another debacle like the Human Rights Museum in Winnipeg.........

I agree with Keith. This certainly falls in the category of a "bright shiny thing", and would certainly be a signature development for the Halifax waterfront. It would be good for the city, but where does it fall in terms of relative priorities given the other wants and desires of the municipality?

Now there is a discussion that could go on for quite some time........

Also, how the hell do they expect to fundraise $200M!!
__________________
Go 'Cats Go
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #64  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2014, 8:32 PM
Drybrain Drybrain is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
Sounds like another debacle like the Human Rights Museum in Winnipeg.........

I agree with Keith. This certainly falls in the category of a "bright shiny thing", and would certainly be a signature development for the Halifax waterfront. It would be good for the city, but where does it fall in terms of relative priorities given the other wants and desires of the municipality?

Now there is a discussion that could go on for quite some time........

Also, how the hell do they expect to fundraise $200M!!
I imagine we'll see a significant federal contribution here? This is pretty in-line with the Harper government's glorification of our military past, and it's a project of obvious national significance.

It looks like a very cool project, but still, part of me imagines the difference $200 million could make on spiffing up some of the more rundown historical buildings downtown. Less showy, but maybe more impact.

Still, we'll see what the financial strategy is for this.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #65  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2014, 8:42 PM
Nilan8888 Nilan8888 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 199
Funny how the Western, Prairie-based Conservative Government has to look almost everywhere outside the Prairie Provinces for examples of Canada's past military glory...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #66  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2014, 8:46 PM
MonctonRad's Avatar
MonctonRad MonctonRad is offline
Wildcats Rule!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Moncton NB
Posts: 34,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nilan8888 View Post
Funny how the Western, Prairie-based Conservative Government has to look almost everywhere outside the Prairie Provinces for examples of Canada's past military glory...
The Conservative Party may have a strong rural western base, but it is a national party, and also has a fairly strong (rural) base in Ontario and the Maritimes as well........
__________________
Go 'Cats Go
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #67  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2014, 8:52 PM
Nilan8888 Nilan8888 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 199
...which is why the Provincial conservative parties east of the Prairies still call themselves Progressive Conservative...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #68  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2014, 10:11 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 8,424
A few random thoughts come to mind:

- This ship is deteriorating and needs a permanent structure in which to store it.

- Rather than mothball it in some drydock somewhere, it would best serve the public as a museum, a learning experience about Canadian history and the unfortunate realities of war.

- Its significance envelops all of Canada as part of our national history, rather than being important only to Halifax.

- Funds for this would be coming from many sources, including the private sector, so therefore it is not reasonable to compare it to other "more important" needs for Halifax. Therefore it seems silly to think that we shouldn't get a stadium if this project goes through - there's no reason to believe that both projects cannot coexist independently of one another.

- Whether you are pro-military or not, you can't ignore the fact that Halifax was founded to serve a military purpose for the British Empire, and ever since the military has been intertwined with Halifax, often supporting and sometimes suppressing it, but always part of it.

- I think an iconic (yeah, there's that word) project such as this will be very positive for Halifax and help to enhance our image to the rest of the world.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #69  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2014, 1:53 AM
counterfactual counterfactual is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 1,796
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
A few random thoughts come to mind:

- This ship is deteriorating and needs a permanent structure in which to store it.

- Rather than mothball it in some drydock somewhere, it would best serve the public as a museum, a learning experience about Canadian history and the unfortunate realities of war.

- Its significance envelops all of Canada as part of our national history, rather than being important only to Halifax.

- Funds for this would be coming from many sources, including the private sector, so therefore it is not reasonable to compare it to other "more important" needs for Halifax. Therefore it seems silly to think that we shouldn't get a stadium if this project goes through - there's no reason to believe that both projects cannot coexist independently of one another.

- Whether you are pro-military or not, you can't ignore the fact that Halifax was founded to serve a military purpose for the British Empire, and ever since the military has been intertwined with Halifax, often supporting and sometimes suppressing it, but always part of it.

- I think an iconic (yeah, there's that word) project such as this will be very positive for Halifax and help to enhance our image to the rest of the world.
Thoughtful. Lucid. Well argued.

Why does it seem that we're always fighting over table scraps down here in Nova Scotia?

It's true that we're a have-not province, so we have to be prudent with the money we have. And I'm certainly sympathetic to the point-- made by Keith and xaxaxaxa-- that there are other more important priorities than this.

That is probably true, but why must we merely settle for one thing over another? Look around, guys. Take a look at the money being promised to other provinces for other projects.

For example, how about potentially SEVERAL BILLION DOLLARS in federal dollars that the Prime Minister has promised to help out his crack adled, thuggish, drunken, clueless, frat boy mayor over in Toronto with his generous promise to build a Scarborough subway link:

Quote:
Ottawa will help pay for Scarborough subway
Prime Minister Stephen Harper says Ottawa will help foot the multi-billion-dollar bill for a subway extension in Scarborough.

[...]

Mr. Flaherty and I, subject of course to the normal approval process, have set aside funds to ensure the financing of Toronto’s plan for the Scarborough subway extension,” Harper said at a photo session with Ford at a hotel near Pearson International Airport.

“I think this is good news for Toronto commuters who obviously continue to face the challenges of gridlock.”

It’s unclear whether Harper has come up with new money or if the federal dollars have been reallocated from the $1.8-billion light rail project, which was halted in August.


See: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013...gh_subway.html
Read that again. The feds have *already* promised $1.8 billion for a light rail project in Toronto. It may be that this money will be re-allocated for the subway OR that several more billion will come to help out Ford's subway.

With $1.8 billion, we could build a (much to Tim Bousquet's chagrin) world class LRT system, Center for Performance Arts, a stadium, the Battle of the Atlantic, and maybe throw in the Battle of the Pacific and Battle of Midway memorials for good measure.

Tell me why we have to settle for one or the other? Tell me why we must sacrifice a national monument to Canadian forces while money is being dolled out, hand over fist, to a useless drunk who happened to wake up one day and find himself sitting in a Mayor's Chair?

IMHO, Mike Savage should head to Ottawa with a cap in one hand and a print out of that Toronto Star story in the other, and every time someone says "not sure if there's money..." he says: you're giving $2 billion to a crack mayor for a subway extension, and won't give $2 billion to Halifax to commemorate veterans and build a LRT?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #70  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2014, 2:13 AM
xanaxanax xanaxanax is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 244
Its a patriotic drivel war memorial to shove down our throats thats being proposed here simply because its where most of the military is. War memorial musumes are not major tourist attractions, if you flew to any major city in the world would vising one of their war musumes even cross your mind to go to? I've been to places in Europe plenty of times and I'm sure they have war musumes but its not something that I've been like hey that would be a top priority to see, I bet they have some cool old tanks and guns "yawn". The hmcs sackville is fine to view from the boardwalk but ifs its getting past the point to maintain than let the bloody thing sink into the harbour somewhere or off the coast and have a ceremony for it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #71  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2014, 2:14 AM
Keith P.'s Avatar
Keith P. Keith P. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,982
There are millions of potential votes for the Conservatives in Toronto.

There are a handful in Halifax, since we always elect useless NDP MPs.

Guess where the money goes.

This project needs to be re-thought. Fiberglass the hull or some damn thing.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #72  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2014, 2:20 AM
xanaxanax xanaxanax is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
There are millions of potential votes for the Conservatives in Toronto.

This project needs to be re-thought. Fiberglass the hull or some damn thing.
Or put the ship in the Armoury and make it open to the public as a museum, it be more cost effective and would save 100s of millions

Last edited by xanaxanax; Jan 25, 2014 at 2:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #73  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2014, 2:25 AM
counterfactual counterfactual is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 1,796
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
There are millions of potential votes for the Conservatives in Toronto.

There are a handful in Halifax, since we always elect useless NDP MPs.

Guess where the money goes.

This project needs to be re-thought. Fiberglass the hull or some damn thing.
*used* to elect NDP MPs. They sort of got shown the door in the last election, provincial one, anyhow.

Feds' EI reforms means they're a lost cause in rural Nova Scotia. Their only play is Halifax, and Harper is not one to write off any part of the country electorally. Quebec elected a handful of CPC MPs in 2011, but Harper is still not writing off making headway there in QC or elsewhere. Similarly, Feds know Halifax is the only game in town for them in the Maritimes, other than parts of NB, so they've been investing: Nova Centre, the several millions for the annual Security Forum, money for the Discovery Centre, etc.

They know what's up.

And there's an election coming in 2015. Feds need to preserve a majority against a resurgent Liberal Party under Trudeau. And Halifax also has a friendly Provincial Government, who is aiming to solidify gains against the NDP across HRM.

Right now is the time when we have the most leverage of any other time in almost a decade, at least since 2006. We should use it, for this and other projects. And we shouldn't apologize for it, just as Alberta, Ontario, and Quebec, never do so, when they win big federal dollars. Let's do it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #74  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2014, 2:46 AM
counterfactual counterfactual is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 1,796
Quote:
Originally Posted by xanaxanax View Post
Its a patriotic drivel war memorial to shove down our throats thats being proposed here simply because its where most of the military is. War memorial musumes are not major tourist attractions, if you flew to any major city in the world would vising one of their war musumes even cross your mind to go to? I've been to places in Europe plenty of times and I'm sure they have war musumes but its not something that I've been like hey that would be a top priority to see, I bet they have some cool old tanks and guns "yawn". The hmcs sackville is fine to view from the boardwalk but ifs its getting past the point to maintain than let the bloody thing sink into the harbour somewhere or off the coast and have a ceremony for it.
Serious? Have you not been to the memorial at Vimy Ridge? That place is basically a sacred pilgrimage for Canadians overseas in France and broader Europe.

How about the Canadian War Cemetary at Dieppe?

And in terms of tourist attractions overseas-- seems to me silly to visit London and not check out the Imperial War Museum. Or visit Warsaw and not Auschwitz. Or Munich and not Dachau. Every Aussie will tell you they don't miss the ANZAC memorial at Gallipoli or the monument at Pozières, France:
http://www.ambafrance-au.org/The-Som...t-for-visiting

And the Korean War memorial in Washington, DC, will stop you in your tracks:



One of my favorite museums of all time, is the Churchill War Rooms museum in London, which is basically the secret underground bunkers where Churchill and his Cabinet live during the German assault on Britain, from which Churchill broadcast many of his famous radio addresses:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churchill_War_Rooms

The museum receives over 300,000 visitors a year.

Also: the Imperial War Museum, also London, receives approx 1 million visitors every year.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #75  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2014, 2:57 AM
xanaxanax xanaxanax is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by counterfactual View Post
Serious? Have you not been to the memorial at Vimy Ridge? That place is basically a sacred pilgrimage for Canadians overseas in France and broader Europe.

How about the Canadian War Cemetary at Dieppe?

And in terms of tourist attractions overseas-- seems to me silly to visit London and not check out the Imperial War Museum. Or visit Warsaw and not Auschwitz. Or Munich and not Dachau. Every Aussie will tell you they don't miss the ANZAC memorial at Gallipoli or the monument at Pozières, France:
http://www.ambafrance-au.org/The-Som...t-for-visiting

And the Korean War memorial in Washington, DC, will stop you in your tracks:



One of my favorite museums of all time, is the Churchill War Rooms museum in London, which is basically the secret underground bunkers where Churchill and his Cabinet live during the German assault on Britain, from which Churchill broadcast many of his famous radio addresses:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churchill_War_Rooms

The museum receives over 300,000 visitors a year.

Also: the Imperial War Museum, also London, receives approx 1 million visitors every year.
Turn the Halifax Armoury into a War Museum then and put the ship in there, its much more fitting space for one and would be more cost effective and would lead these imaginary thousands of tourist its going to bring in to other parts of the city.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #76  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2014, 3:09 AM
spaustin's Avatar
spaustin spaustin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Downtown Dartmouth
Posts: 705
Awful lot of negativity here. I agree that $200 million would be too much for HRM or even the Province to come up with. $200 million of provincial or municipal money could buy a lot of more important items on the wish list, like a greatly improved transit system. If, however, the Naval Trust is able to get a significant contribution from the federal government and fund raise successfully from private sources, why wouldn't we wish them good luck?

The Armoury might be a nice idea, but you would still need to cut into the building, complete whatever deferred maintenance needs to be done, build some kind of platform to hold the Sackville and move the boat to the Armoury. It wouldn't be $200 million, but it wouldn't be cheap. Better to build a purpose-built building on the waterfront than slap something together just because it's there.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #77  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2014, 3:23 AM
xanaxanax xanaxanax is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaustin View Post
Awful lot of negativity here. I agree that $200 million would be too much for HRM or even the Province to come up with. $200 million of provincial or municipal money could buy a lot of more important items on the wish list, like a greatly improved transit system. If, however, the Naval Trust is able to get a significant contribution from the federal government and fund raise successfully from private sources, why wouldn't we wish them good luck?

The Armoury might be a nice idea, but you would still need to cut into the building, complete whatever deferred maintenance needs to be done, build some kind of platform to hold the Sackville and move the boat to the Armoury. It wouldn't be $200 million, but it wouldn't be cheap. Better to build a purpose-built building on the waterfront than slap something together just because it's there.
I can't imagine it being much more than 50 million to achieve and it could be more varied in exhibits than one moment in history. Theres going to be some costly renovations to building no mater what happens to it and all its military artifact are going to have to be costly moved to else where once its decide what the building will be. Building some kind of platform to hold the Sackville and moving it wouldn't be that hard, there is also adequate space to hoist whatever plane they plan on putting in there above it. You have adequate parking space and everything you need right on site already there. If it did bring in a lot more tourists and visitors to it it would boost the Agricola street and Gottingen area a lot more.

Last edited by xanaxanax; Jan 25, 2014 at 4:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #78  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2014, 4:01 AM
SignalHillHiker's Avatar
SignalHillHiker SignalHillHiker is offline
I ♣ Baby Seals
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Sin Jaaawnz, Newf'nland
Posts: 34,658
Just wanted to pop in to say I love this one. 10/10.
__________________
Note to self: "The plural of anecdote is not evidence."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #79  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2014, 2:05 PM
ScovaNotian ScovaNotian is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Halifax
Posts: 239
I imagine it would be popular with cruise ship visitors.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #80  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2014, 7:17 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 3,883
Well the project is still pretty preliminary - isn't there an approvals process that still needs to be gone through (HRM - planning approvals and such)?
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces > Halifax > Halifax Peninsula & Downtown Dartmouth
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:03 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.