PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by Londonee

I agree with this 100% and it's a bummer other people don't see things this way. Your "low ambition" comment is pretty gutting but right on, if Philadelphians would just live elsewhere for a bit and see how the rest of the civilized world lives I feel like it wouldn't be so tolerable. I've said this anecdote on here before - but I literally moved about 4 blocks from Gho to Fitler Square - simply b/c it's more civilized - buried utility lines, swept streets - clean, developed, cared-for - what a lifestyle difference. It's just a super insular city that lacks a bit of self respect.

I agree as well. 3rd&Brown was correct in his statements, I don't know why anyone would lie to their self and believe Philly is doing a great job.

Our city needs to work together with all the departments, I understand everything is separated but thats why you come together as a collective to get shit done.

Mind you we have not even half the population NYC has (even tho we may have almost the same amount of area if you include all of Philadelphia not the city proper.) & We cannot get shit right, can we exchange mayors and council with NYC for a bit and see if improvements are made? Theres no way simple things should be this hard.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

The city has proven that it can't handle slush funds (see: soda tax).

How could I forget about the "Fund to make people choose healthier drink options"

Ahh yes I wonder how much money went to where it was supposed to go.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by Londonee

Weren't you about to move out of the city a few months ago b/c you didn't have greener Pasteurs? Imagine if your streets and immediate built environment *were* greener Pasteurs. Each street tree box was properly maintained by the city, no overhead power lines due to code, civic regulations that enforced trash and weed violations. We had tax/code incentives to encourage more permeable surfaces at homes like window boxes or planters? That's what truly civilized cities do.

I was lamenting not making the move out of the city a few months ago. But it was because I was living in a small rowhome with a 3 year old, a nearly 1 year old, and both myself and my wife were attempting to work 40 hour work weeks while caring for the kids and being stuck inside an unable to enjoy basically anything that compelled us to live in philly in the first place.

It was a rough time and I can tell you with absolute certainty that if my street had well maintained tree boxes and no overhead powerlines it would have done absolutely nothing to improve my life or my mental well being and would have been totally irrelevant to my desire of more space while being trapped inside during a global pandemic.

And generally my street is pretty well maintained, and when I get out a broom and pan to sweep off my sidewalk and the gutter I'll go a few houses in either direction and just clean theirs too, because it really doesn't take much longer. And I've noticed others on my street doing the same. I'm glad my block is tidy and most of all I'm glad there are a lot of trees on my block. I get the whole doing the little things bit and I do think it can help.

But I think some people on this board are little too obsessed with the little things, when there's plenty of larger issues at hand. And some of these little things, I just can't even wrap my head around how anyone could care about them or even waste any energy thinking about them.

Again, I'm on team bury some power lines when it makes sense too! I will admit it drives me crazy when a road is freshly repaved for the first time in a decade and then a few months later the water department comes by and tears it up to do what looks very much like scheduled maintenance. There is no excuse why this stuff isn't coordinated. And if we're already digging up a road deep enough, there is no reason why they shouldn't go the extra mile and bury power lines and other utilities as well. I agree!

I just can't imagine this being something I'd be going around banging the drum about. I love to travel and I've been to cities all over the world and I could not even begin to tell you which cities have underground powerlines and which don't. I truly do not generally notice them or care about them and their existence in the air or underground has no discernable difference on my life.

[iamrobk]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

How could I forget about the "Fund to make people choose healthier drink options"

Ahh yes I wonder how much money went to where it was supposed to go.

If you want to see where the beverage tax money goes, the Controller posts it online: https://controller.phila.gov/philade...-beverage-tax/

[summersm343]

CDR Submissions for second September CDR Meeting:

1030 W Girard Ave.
-West Poplar in North Philadelphia
-Phase 2 of 10th and Girard apartment building development
-6-story 120-unit apartment building with ground floor retail
PDF:
https://www.phila.gov/media/20200901...te-posting.pdf

3226 Germantown Ave.
-North Philly near Temple Hospital - is there a technical neighborhood name for this area?
-4-story 41-unit apartment building with ground floor retail/commercial
PDF:
https://www.phila.gov/media/20200901...sing-CDR-1.pdf

2224 Germantown Ave.
-North Philly, in what I believe is considered the Hartranft neighborhood
-4-story 72-unit apartment building with ground floor retail/commercial
PDF:
https://www.phila.gov/media/20200901...Submission.pdf

[Raja]

Originally Posted by allovertown

I was lamenting not making the move out of the city a few months ago. But it was because I was living in a small rowhome with a 3 year old, a nearly 1 year old, and both myself and my wife were attempting to work 40 hour work weeks while caring for the kids and being stuck inside an unable to enjoy basically anything that compelled us to live in philly in the first place.

It was a rough time and I can tell you with absolute certainty that if my street had well maintained tree boxes and no overhead powerlines it would have done absolutely nothing to improve my life or my mental well being and would have been totally irrelevant to my desire of more space while being trapped inside during a global pandemic.

And generally my street is pretty well maintained, and when I get out a broom and pan to sweep off my sidewalk and the gutter I'll go a few houses in either direction and just clean theirs too, because it really doesn't take much longer. And I've noticed others on my street doing the same. I'm glad my block is tidy and most of all I'm glad there are a lot of trees on my block. I get the whole doing the little things bit and I do think it can help.

But I think some people on this board are little too obsessed with the little things, when there's plenty of larger issues at hand. And some of these little things, I just can't even wrap my head around how anyone could care about them or even waste any energy thinking about them.

Again, I'm on team bury some power lines when it makes sense too! I will admit it drives me crazy when a road is freshly repaved for the first time in a decade and then a few months later the water department comes by and tears it up to do what looks very much like scheduled maintenance. There is no excuse why this stuff isn't coordinated. And if we're already digging up a road deep enough, there is no reason why they shouldn't go the extra mile and bury power lines and other utilities as well. I agree!

I just can't imagine this being something I'd be going around banging the drum about. I love to travel and I've been to cities all over the world and I could not even begin to tell you which cities have underground powerlines and which don't. I truly do not generally notice them or care about them and their existence in the air or underground has no discernable difference on my life.

We've had similar exchanges in the past about the (former, god bless) garbage pile on the City side of the Platt Bridge. For many people -- myself included -- who have either lived or grown up elsewhere, the little nuisances do add up. Trash on the highways may not matter much, until you have to swerve, like I did yesterday, to avoid a hubcap that got kicked up by a semi. Ten-inch-deep construction holes left uncovered in the middle of Chestnut Street may not matter much, until you hit one and need to spend time and money on a new alignment. Sudden street closures that didn't HAVE to cause such a traffic backup had the city just posted a couple signs a couple blocks may not matter much, unless you're on the way to an important meeting. Delayed trash pickup may not matter much, until your street is home to a seemingly permanent colony of house flies that swarm inside your front door whenever you leave. If you don't ever waste any energy thinking about these things, then that's great for you. But why the constant shaming on the people who do?

FWIW, I don't know if there's a city in the country that has made greater strides in the Parks department in the past decade. Dilworth, Love, Franklin Square, Waterworks, Malcolm X, Pennypack, East Fairmount, Schuylkill Trail ... it's really amazing when you think back to what these places looked like in 2008. Things aren't all bad, and I think there's a lot to be optimistic about. I'm hoping a push to reclaim Streets makes just as much headway in the next decade as Parks has in the past decade.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by Raja

We've had similar exchanges in the past about the (former, god bless) garbage pile on the City side of the Platt Bridge. For many people -- myself included -- who have either lived or grown up elsewhere, the little nuisances do add up. Trash on the highways may not matter much, until you have to swerve, like I did yesterday, to avoid a hubcap that got kicked up by a semi. Ten-inch-deep construction holes left uncovered in the middle of Chestnut Street may not matter much, until you hit one and need to spend time and money on a new alignment. Sudden street closures that didn't HAVE to cause such a traffic backup had the city just posted a couple signs a couple blocks may not matter much, unless you're on the way to an important meeting. Delayed trash pickup may not matter much, until your street is home to a seemingly permanent colony of house flies that swarm inside your front door whenever you leave. If you don't ever waste any energy thinking about these things, then that's great for you. But why the constant shaming on the people who do?

FWIW, I don't know if there's a city in the country that has made greater strides in the Parks department in the past decade. Dilworth, Love, Franklin Square, Waterworks, Malcolm X, Pennypack, East Fairmount, Schuylkill Trail ... it's really amazing when you think back to what these places looked like in 2008. Things aren't all bad, and I think there's a lot to be optimistic about. I'm hoping a push to reclaim Streets makes just as much headway in the next decade as Parks has in the past decade.

Lack of buried power lines has absolutely nothing to do with city governance. Apparently this fact was lost on many. You have to operate within the world that actually exists to get things done, proposing pie in the sky "solutions" when people can't even grasp that the mayor has no control over PECO gets us nowhere in my estimation. Also not understanding how so many interpreted what I was saying as "the City is doing a great job in all aspects and can never improve". Say what? Citizens are very poorly informed on many levels and that affects how people view problems and potential solutions.

As for highways, the State is responsible for maintenance and upkeep. People in Philly dont complain to PennDOT about the state of the highways in the city and thus they are not prioritized. Part of the problem is people not even understanding the mayor (or whatever councilperson one hates the most) do not control interstate or state highways within the city limits.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

The city needs to do better on the basics. It has the resources to:

1. Pave the damn streets
2. Fix the damn sidewalks
3. Bury the damn powerlines
4. Design a better trash pickup program
5. Sweep the damn streets AND sidewalks

I’m tired of excuses. Do better basics, Philly.

The damn sidewalks are part of damn private property and are not owned nor maintained by the city government. This is basic stuff. When you see bad sidewalk that is the fault of the owner of the sidewalk. Your property line ends at the curb.

You can "demand" that the city bury power lines from now until eternity and they will never do so because they CANNOT do so. They own PGW and they do not own PECO which is part of Exelon which is a for profit, publically traded utility that operates in multiple states and is regulated in this state by the PA PUC.

Facts are not the same as excuses. In my book there isnt an excuse for people not understanding the basics of who controls our local infrastructure. PECO is not the same as PWD or PGW.

[TonyTone]

Originally Posted by cardeza

Lack of buried power lines has absolutely nothing to do with city governance. Apparently this fact was lost on many. You have to operate within the world that actually exists to get things done, proposing pie in the sky "solutions" when people can't even grasp that the mayor has no control over PECO gets us nowhere in my estimation. Also not understanding how so many interpreted what I was saying as "the City is doing a great job in all aspects and can never improve". Say what? Citizens are very poorly informed on many levels and that affects how people view problems and potential solutions.

As for highways, the State is responsible for maintenance and upkeep. People in Philly dont complain to PennDOT about the state of the highways in the city and thus they are not prioritized. Part of the problem is people not even understanding the mayor (or whatever councilperson one hates the most) do not control interstate or state highways within the city limits.

Card, Im starting to think you work for the city, why you keep making excuses for this terrible lack of leadership is beyond me.

Word of the day is COORDINATION.

I still Fuck wit you tho.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

If anything. The power line discussions have reinforced my perception of Philadelphia as a low ambition city.

I mean. The preposterousness of all the reasons why it can't be done. Or shouldn't be a priority.

A well run city can have many priorities. There's a streets department and a utility commission. They can have their own priorities and be well run in their own right without having to compete with public safety and education.

This is why the President has a cabinet. And major corporations have C-Level executives reporting to the CEO. Our expectation as tax payers should be that the city runs well, period.

This narratives of priorities is false. You can improve your streets AND improve safety AND improve education. The money is being spent anyway. Just have some god damned leadership and clear guidelines and measurements for success.

I mean. 95 looks like a trash dump in Philadelphia. I know I know. The state is responsible for street sweeping on 95. Well, if you're the mayor and the streets department, pick up the f*ing phone and ask why 95 hasn't been swept in years.

We're spending what, 10 billion on rebuilding 95? And it already looks like shit. It's like building a new park and never going back to weed the landscaping. Or building a house and not maintaining it. What's the point of spending the money in the first place if you're not going to keep it up.

And don't @ me with stupid explanations of why it can't be done. EVERY SINGLE TIME I drive back to NY from Philly, I see street sweepers on the NJ Turnpike. EVERY SINGLE TIME. If it's not a street sweeper, it's a pick up truck with workers picking up the large debris that can't go through a street sweeper.

I hate NJ. But the roads are meticulous.

When you say "we" rebuilding 95 who are you talking about? That road and that projects are the responsibility of the state. Im not sure what brand new section "looks like shit" but my guess is it looks far better than the 60 year old viaduct that was there before. So let me understand this.... a once every 50 year project is being done to replace the entire length of 95 north of 676 and you are complaining that the project isn't ambitious enough? A few billion dollars to rebuild and expand the highway while improving the areas underneath the highway aren't enough in your opinion? What should the project entail to be grand enough? Let me guess, they should've buried the entire 8 lanes.....

NJ roads are atrocious and they JUST increased their gas tax a few years ago to address a major backlog. SJ roads such as route 38 had been 3rd world like for DECADES largely because of NJ's low gas tax that left NJDOT underfunded. The roads in NJ that weren't terrible were toll roads like the turnpike and the AC expressway.

Citizens dont complain to Penndot so they do not prioritize shoulder cleaning, instead people put their time into venting on forums and saying someone else should complain. I have submitted countless complaints to PennDOT online and most of the time they resolve the issue. It would be better if I didnt have to do that, but the fact that the issues are resolved only after I contact them suggests to me that others aren't saying squat.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by Raja

We've had similar exchanges in the past about the (former, god bless) garbage pile on the City side of the Platt Bridge. For many people -- myself included -- who have either lived or grown up elsewhere, the little nuisances do add up. Trash on the highways may not matter much, until you have to swerve, like I did yesterday, to avoid a hubcap that got kicked up by a semi. Ten-inch-deep construction holes left uncovered in the middle of Chestnut Street may not matter much, until you hit one and need to spend time and money on a new alignment. Sudden street closures that didn't HAVE to cause such a traffic backup had the city just posted a couple signs a couple blocks may not matter much, unless you're on the way to an important meeting. Delayed trash pickup may not matter much, until your street is home to a seemingly permanent colony of house flies that swarm inside your front door whenever you leave. If you don't ever waste any energy thinking about these things, then that's great for you. But why the constant shaming on the people who do?

FWIW, I don't know if there's a city in the country that has made greater strides in the Parks department in the past decade. Dilworth, Love, Franklin Square, Waterworks, Malcolm X, Pennypack, East Fairmount, Schuylkill Trail ... it's really amazing when you think back to what these places looked like in 2008. Things aren't all bad, and I think there's a lot to be optimistic about. I'm hoping a push to reclaim Streets makes just as much headway in the next decade as Parks has in the past decade.

Trash collection and having functional roads that don't have ten inch potholes are necessary functions of city government. You'll receive no arguments from me on issues such as those. Truly though, I am very much struggling to understand how an unburried powerline falls into the same category as a ten inch pothole or a mountain of garbage.

Originally Posted by cardeza

The damn sidewalks are part of damn private property and are not owned nor maintained by the city government. This is basic stuff. When you see bad sidewalk that is the fault of the owner of the sidewalk. Your property line ends at the curb.

You can "demand" that the city bury power lines from now until eternity and they will never do so because they CANNOT do so. They own PGW and they do not own PECO which is part of Exelon which is a for profit, publically traded utility that operates in multiple states and is regulated in this state by the PA PUC.

Facts are not the same as excuses. In my book there isnt an excuse for people not understanding the basics of who controls our local infrastructure. PECO is not the same as PWD or PGW.

Jesus christ man. Enough. Everyone understands what you're saying. Others are maybe just more capable of seeing a world in which the status quo doesn't continue indefinitely until the end of time. Laws could be passed, agreements could be reached, grants could be applied for. Believe it or not, burying all the power points over the course of oh, idk, a half century, 80 years? Is a very grounded in reality possibility.

How is it that I've found myself arguing with both sides of the fucking power line debate? An issue which I've claimed not to care about? Lol fuck me. I'm done.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by cardeza

The damn sidewalks are part of damn private property and are not owned nor maintained by the city government. This is basic stuff. When you see bad sidewalk that is the fault of the owner of the sidewalk. Your property line ends at the curb.

You can "demand" that the city bury power lines from now until eternity and they will never do so because they CANNOT do so. They own PGW and they do not own PECO which is part of Exelon which is a for profit, publically traded utility that operates in multiple states and is regulated in this state by the PA PUC.

Facts are not the same as excuses. In my book there isnt an excuse for people not understanding the basics of who controls our local infrastructure. PECO is not the same as PWD or PGW.

1. The city can and does help private development all the time. No excuses. The sidewalks need to be fixed and the city needs to help

2. Around me, tons of city owned lots don’t even have sidewalks. I’ve reported it and city does nothing.

Face it, man. Our city government does very little well. Considering the insane taxes here, it’s an insult that the city doesn’t do more and better.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by allovertown

But I think some people on this board are little too obsessed with the little things, when there's plenty of larger issues at hand.

Let me ask you a question?

How many middle and upper middle class families do you think leave this city a year because of the "little things"?

I know. You're gonna say they leave for the schools. I'm gonna tell you 50% of them leave because their neighborhood looks like sh*t and they're tired of looking at it. And that's my point, you address both of them because it's a virtuous cycle.

Their tax dollars will pay for your schools and your homeless programs.

And I've never contemplated selling my (multiple) properties in Philadelphia because of a virus. The city still has so much potential and I just want it to be its best.

Also. Not for nothing, but there is real science out there on how the appearance of a built environment can affect the perceptions and morale of people. If you walk to school passed trash strewn lots with litter everywhere and weeds growing from every crevice on the streets and in the sidewalks, how would you feel? Would you feel like the world was full of opportunity? Would you feel like your neighbors and city (your home) cared about you? Even more, why would you make any attempt to do better if everything was just falling down and apart around you. It's demoralizing. It also decreases public safety. This is not an opinion. It's fact.

I don't know why there is an argument about it. It's a both AND discussion, not either or.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Let me ask you a question?

How many middle and upper middle class families do you think leave this city a year because of the "little things"?

I know. You're gonna say they leave for the schools. I'm gonna tell you 50% of them leave because their neighborhood looks like sh*t and they're tired of looking at it. And that's my point, you address both of them because it's a virtuous cycle.

Their tax dollars will pay for your schools and your homeless programs.

And I've never contemplated selling my (multiple) properties in Philadelphia because of a virus. The city still has so much potential and I just want it to be its best.

Also. Not for nothing, but there is real science out there on how the appearance of a built environment can affect the perceptions and morale of people. If you walk to school passed trash strewn lots with litter everywhere and weeds growing from every crevice on the streets and in the sidewalks, how would you feel? Would you feel like the world was full of opportunity? Would you feel like your neighbors and city (your home) cared about you? Even more, why would you make any attempt to do better if everything was just falling down and apart around you. It's demoralizing. It also decreases public safety. This is not an opinion. It's fact.

I don't know why there is an argument about it. It's a both AND discussion, not either or.

My major issue is simply including powerlines in this conversation, because again, i can't imagine caring about them. As i said previously clean = good. At the same time, my view on whether the world is full of opportunity is not affected by some litter or weeds growing through sidewalks.

One of my favorite cities in the world is Rome and it's a filthy city. The stuff that seems to really bother you, i just don't care about. Obviously I have limits, the trash needs to be collected, I'm not trying to live in a dump. But generally wherever i go in Philly, I'm not bothered by litter (pandemic related trash collection issues notwithstanding.) Maybe I'm in a very small minority, i don't know. But I think your idea that 50% of middle and upper class families that leave Philly have left it because of shit like weeds, litter and powerlines is insane.

I'm in my mid 30s. I have PLENTY of friends who have left the city over the past few years. They all left for same reasons, affordability, more space, and schools. For a few things like commute and being closer to grandparents was a factor. I know literally no one who has left Philadelphia because they were sick of looking at powerlines.

[TonyTone]

The whole issue is the city acting like it can't work together with the other dept and get shit done.

Sidewalks are fucked,

Streets are fucked and are finally getting fixed,

New developments are being built and they are not taking care of the 1900's power lines.

Ok lets look at some real world examples,

Which of these pictures looks cleaner and better

A.https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@39.96...7i16384!8i8192

B.https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@39.96...7i16384!8i8192

Be honest really which one has a better view?

Would we respect Broad St if it had poles of that bullshit the whole way North and south?

I don't even expect them to do the whole city but major neighborhoods and areas should be put underground.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by cardeza

When you say "we" rebuilding 95 who are you talking about? That road and that projects are the responsibility of the state. Im not sure what brand new section "looks like shit" but my guess is it looks far better than the 60 year old viaduct that was there before. So let me understand this.... a once every 50 year project is being done to replace the entire length of 95 north of 676 and you are complaining that the project isn't ambitious enough? A few billion dollars to rebuild and expand the highway while improving the areas underneath the highway aren't enough in your opinion? What should the project entail to be grand enough? Let me guess, they should've buried the entire 8 lanes.....

You are the poster-child for low ambition.

The fact that you can't see the world anyway but how it already is is just sad.

The rebuilt 95 is covered in debris, litter, car parts, tires, furniture. It's everywhere. Recently, one of my uber drivers told me she could build a car from scratch with all the parts she saw on 95 in Philadelphia.

You think that's normal? To have a highway that looks like a trash dump?

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by allovertown

My major issue is simply including powerlines in this conversation, because again, i can't imagine caring about them. As i said previously clean = good. At the same time, my view on whether the world is full of opportunity is not affected by some litter or weeds growing through sidewalks.

One of my favorite cities in the world is Rome and it's a filthy city. The stuff that seems to really bother you, i just don't care about. Obviously I have limits, the trash needs to be collected, I'm not trying to live in a dump. But generally wherever i go in Philly, I'm not bothered by litter (pandemic related trash collection issues notwithstanding.) Maybe I'm in a very small minority, i don't know. But I think your idea that 50% of middle and upper class families that leave Philly have left it because of shit like weeds, litter and powerlines is insane.

I'm in my mid 30s. I have PLENTY of friends who have left the city over the past few years. They all left for same reasons, affordability, more space, and schools. For a few things like commute and being closer to grandparents was a factor. I know literally no one who has left Philadelphia because they were sick of looking at powerlines.

You speak from a place of priviledge of course. Imagine if you lived at 22nd & Allegheny. Or in Mayfair. Or in Frankford. Or on a block in Castor Gardens where many of your neighbors didn't maintain their front yards. Imagine if there were so many empty lots and unkept houses on your block that you couldn't possible do it all on your own (tend to the litter, etc). It's clear responsibility of the city to maintain clean streets. And to enforce code violations, etc.

Again. You continue to mis-represent my point. My point isn't just about power lines. It's about an overall lack of attention from the city on quality of life issues relating to aesthetics that have very real affect on people's quality of life.

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

You speak from a place of priviledge of course. Imagine if you lived at 22nd & Allegheny. Or in Mayfair. Or in Frankford. Or on a block in Castor Gardens where many of your neighbors didn't maintain their front yards. Imagine if there were so many empty lots and unkept houses on your block that you couldn't possible do it all on your own (tend to the litter, etc). It's clear responsibility of the city to maintain clean streets. And to enforce code violations, etc.

Again. You continue to mis-represent my point. My point isn't just about power lines. It's about an overall lack of attention from the city on quality of life issues relating to aesthetics that have very real affect on people's quality of life.

And you continue to misrepresent mine. Liter on the street is not the same as the vacant trash strewn lots that can be found all over many parts of the city. I was just posting in another thread about how damaging a vacant lot can be to its surroundings. But vacant lots are tangible scars to the urban built environment. And the trash that can accumulate in a vacant lot, is not a comparable situation to the average amount of litter you find on a city street regardless of what part of town you're in.

Look. I'm not saying we shouldn't strive to do more and the city shouldn't try to do a better job making things look better. And I agree we can walk and chew gum at the same time, just because we're dealing with big problems, doesn't mean you don't fix the potholes. All I'm saying is there is nothing wrong with putting problems into perspective and prioritizing certain things over others.

And I think if you've got a warped perspective on this city if you're placing street litter and powerlines even remotely in the same conversation as the education system among the issues that hold this city back and cause families to move out.

I'll admit, I live on a nice little street in a nice party of philly now. But there is a reason allovertown is my handle. I have lived all over town. And not always in the nice parts of town and never, no matter where I lived, was the litter or weeds on the street something that made any type of significant impact on my life.

And powerlines? Fuck man. They take power into your house. Probably went a quarter century before I even had any idea there was an alternative to hanging them on poles. It's not like when I went to center city I was wowed by the lack powerlines. I never noticed or cared.

If I fell into a coma tonight and you buried every powerline in my neighborhood before I came to, I think I might notice pretty quickly that something was different. But I think you'd have to place the over/under at at least two weeks before I actually even realized the power lines had been buried.

And yet despite this, I wholeheartedly agree that if there's a big construction project or a street is being torn up for some other major utility project, absolutely throw those lines underground. I'm just saying let's not get carried away and act like this type of shit holds a candle to dealing with the education system, poverty, homelessness, etc. I'm just saying relax a little. You can push to make things better, without getting so bent out of shape over a piece of trash on the sidewalk. Take a breath. It's not a big deal.

[cardeza]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

1. The city can and does help private development all the time. No excuses. The sidewalks need to be fixed and the city needs to help

2. Around me, tons of city owned lots don’t even have sidewalks. I’ve reported it and city does nothing.

Face it, man. Our city government does very little well. Considering the insane taxes here, it’s an insult that the city doesn’t do more and better.

the lack of understanding regarding property rights, the responsibility of private property owners and the limitations of the budget is staggering. I mean wow. You are actually arguing the City has plenty of spare money laying around to replace PRIVATE sidewalks citywide. You are right, I wonder why no one thought of this before. I feel bad for the suckers who actually take care of their own sidewalks with their own money! should the City cut grass on private front yards as well?

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by allovertown

You can push to make things better, without getting so bent out of shape over a piece of trash on the sidewalk. Take a breath. It's not a big deal.

It's not a piece of trash on the sidewalk. There's trash literally everywhere.

Keep on working on the schools and poverty. You know, people have been working on those things for 40+ years with little to no effect.

You are centering yourself in all of your conversations. Your opinion of the city is based on your block, your friends, your local elementary school (all of which, I'd assume, fit a very different demographic profile than the city overall).

So I'm going to center the conversation on me for a second. Part of managing the city is realizing that you have many constituencies. Not every person in the city has a family. Not every person in the city has kids in the public schools. I'm one of those people and I have a high income, pay a lot of taxes, and receive very little in return. But I contribute a lot to your schools, etc.

There are many people in my and similar buckets. They probably include young and mid-career professionals with no kids, retirees, etc. We pay taxes too. You know what? If that means I want clean streets I'm allowed to expect clean streets. And the more people like me you have, the more the city can provide to everyone else. And if you think that's a lot to ask, then you're an illustration of the problem.

In a way, you should be happy that's all I want for the thousands of dollars a year I pay in taxes. Because it's so f'ng easy to do.