Tucson Development Thread

[acatalanb]

I found this excellent site containing pictures of Tucson's historic sites, enjoy.

I came about this site after learning more about that great Pioneer Hotel of Dec 1970.

Man, I loved early 20th century architecture!
Here are photos of the old Pioneer Hotel before it was destroyed by subsequent 'renovations' after the Fire. The Pioneer Hotel is worth renovating from it's original design , at least from the outside ... it's a good candidate for the facade renovation projects.





Here's a bit of trivia : The Rialto Theatre was for a time (twice) a Spanish language only theatre ( El Cine Plaza ) and a pornographic theatre ( 5 years ) - Rialto at Wiki

I wished Tucson could have saved the Santa Rita Hotel ... sad . Downtown Tucson Public Library? ... UGLY!!

Like I said before, architecture design died somewhere between the 60's and 90's . However, let me add, the downtown underpasses do need a modern update. Hopefully, the 6th Ave and Stone Ave underpasses updates will be a copy of the new 4th ave. underpass!

[acatalanb]

Vintage Postcards of Tucson ... I have more appreciation for renovation of Tucson buildings after looking at these postcards.

Old Santa Rita hotel :

[bleunick]

Originally Posted by acatalanb

I found this excellent site containing pictures of Tucson's historic sites, enjoy.

I came about this site after learning more about that great Pioneer Hotel of Dec 1970.

Man, I loved early 20th century architecture!
Here are photos of the old Pioneer Hotel before it was destroyed by subsequent 'renovations' after the Fire. The Pioneer Hotel is worth renovating from it's original design , at least from the outside ... it's a good candidate for the facade renovation projects.





Here's a bit of trivia : The Rialto Theatre was for a time (twice) a Spanish language only theatre ( El Cine Plaza ) and a pornographic theatre ( 5 years ) - Rialto at Wiki

I wished Tucson could have saved the Santa Rita Hotel ... sad . Downtown Tucson Public Library? ... UGLY!!

Like I said before, architecture design died somewhere between the 60's and 90's . However, let me add, the downtown underpasses do need a modern update. Hopefully, the 6th Ave and Stone Ave underpasses updates will be a copy of the new 4th ave. underpass!

I loved the original look of the old Pioneer building too. About 10 years ago my dad had an office in there and i would get to explore it on the weekends, that really cool pool is actually still there! Unfortunately I read some place that its current facade is non-reversible and is actually needed for structural support, so i doubt the facade project would be an option.

[acatalanb]

I got carried away with Tucson historical architecture. It would be nice to find a site with complete photos and history during the glory days of Tucson - pre-1960's 'revitalization' projects.

El Conquistador Hotel was demolished to make way for the El Con Mall around 68' . Looks like the 60's were good years for the wrecking ball business in Tucson. Here's a story about it's architect, the first Arizona registered female architect.



Photos from a Drachman ( I guess of Drachman St. fame ) . Drachman Story.



Looks like Tucson wasn't that bad until it was nuked during the 60's . Tucson would've been a great city if all of it's historic buildings were saved plus a sprinkle of current modern architecture ... and maybe a tower, rainbow bridge and the modern light rail.

[acatalanb]

Portland has 600+ licensed food carts

An El Charro Cafe or Janos food cart in the northwest side ain't bad ... for $5 per meal. Let's bring back some of the bankrupt restaurants into a food cart!

Food Truck Revolution Pt 1

Food Truck Revolution Pt 2

Food Truck Revolution Pt 3

Food Truck Revolution Pt 4

Let's bring back the barrio community to the 21st century. Emailed the mayor about this

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by acatalanb

Looks like Tucson wasn't that bad until it was nuked during the 60's .

Same with Phoenix and a lot of cities all across the country. The "Urban renewal" of the mid century did to a lot of American cities what WW2 did to European cities, sadly we did it to ourselves.

[acatalanb]

Vanishing Tucson Yahoo Group contains loads of photos and links of the 'early' years of Tucson. You need to register as a member.

Some links from this group:

Early 1900's Tucson from Flickr

The 'amenities' block west of the UA right by Univeristy Blvd. has a 'Marshall Foundation' plaque nailed to one of the buildings, I think they are referring to these guys

YouTube Tucson

Related to Bourne Partners?

[acatalanb]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

Same with Phoenix and a lot of cities all across the country. The "Urban renewal" of the mid century did to a lot of American cities what WW2 did to European cities, sadly we did it to ourselves.

Yep. But it looks like Tucson got nuked by a hydrogen bomb instead of an atomic bomb after looking at pictures pre-Nagasaki Tucson.

[tucsonnativeresident]

Originally Posted by acatalanb

Yep. But it looks like Tucson got nuked by a hydrogen bomb instead of an atomic bomb after looking at pictures pre-Nagasaki Tucson.

My god man why are you here?

Also, I completely disagree with you on many issues.
1) Greyhound station - they actually prefer to be near 1-10 it keeps them on schedule to not have to go through a congested downtown. I would rather use downtown core properties to serve residents not people just passing through. Yes downtown's have congestion but why make congestion worse?

2) Half of the things you tout as great and like (historic preservation, mercado district etc) were enabled by the city you hate so much. Its perfectly ok to dole out criticism where criticism is due but dole out credit when it is due.

3) You have lunch with humberto lopez the slumlord and you expect us to think you are not biased? He buys a hotel, runs it into the ground - who is going to want to buy that now?

4) Food carts will renovate downtown. OK you want to give them more credit than the businesses that really invest in brick and mortar and give more competition to these establishments. People with vacant property will get a lot more money for a real business or from parking revenues (like the big parking lot next to el charro) these food carts won't pay nearly as much.. Vacant lots and development sites? Take the county complex site - it would cost more for the liability insurance than what minor revenues they would make do you think they want to do that? But guess what - food carts DO exist on public property - in el presidio park, at the library and at the courthouse. so where exactly is your criticism aimed - private landholders?

By my count I've seen requests for Arenas, Rainbow Bridges, Towers, Fountains, and even an aquarium all on this thread. The biggest problem with rio nuevo is that the council listened to all of you concurrently. It is impossible for "the public" to all be right at the same time.

[acatalanb]

Originally Posted by tucsonnativeresident

My god man why are you here?

Also, I completely disagree with you on many issues.
1) Greyhound station - they actually prefer to be near 1-10 it keeps them on schedule to not have to go through a congested downtown. I would rather use downtown core properties to serve residents not people just passing through. Yes downtown's have congestion but why make congestion worse?

2) Half of the things you tout as great and like (historic preservation, mercado district etc) were enabled by the city you hate so much. Its perfectly ok to dole out criticism where criticism is due but dole out credit when it is due.

3) You have lunch with humberto lopez the slumlord and you expect us to think you are not biased? He buys a hotel, runs it into the ground - who is going to want to buy that now?

4) Food carts will renovate downtown. OK you want to give them more credit than the businesses that really invest in brick and mortar and give more competition to these establishments. People with vacant property will get a lot more money for a real business or from parking revenues (like the big parking lot next to el charro) these food carts won't pay nearly as much.. Vacant lots and development sites? Take the county complex site - it would cost more for the liability insurance than what minor revenues they would make do you think they want to do that? But guess what - food carts DO exist on public property - in el presidio park, at the library and at the courthouse. so where exactly is your criticism aimed - private landholders?

By my count I've seen requests for Arenas, Rainbow Bridges, Towers, Fountains, and even an aquarium all on this thread. The biggest problem with rio nuevo is that the council listened to all of you concurrently. It is impossible for "the public" to all be right at the same time.

My god man why are you here? ... Listen man, take it easy! I'm here to post my opinion ... don't be scared!!

Retort on your questions above.
1) Fine disagree. Who are they? I think the Greyhound Bus station should be on 6th/Toole Ave. It's just appropriate to be close to the Transit Center and Train Station - a transportation hub. So you care more about the bus drivers than the customers? I supposed you want the Ronstadt Transit Center moved, too? Tucson is a big city. Expect congestion. If you want to live in a place with no or 'less' congestion, move to the countryside.

2) Dont' put words into my mouth. I don't hate this city. I credit the the city on some cases and I criticized the city on other cases. I'm not against historic preservation or renovation. I'm against re-creating what's been destroyed. Why rebuild the convento? What is it that you like about the Mercado District?

3) What makes you think I like Humberto Lopez? Just because I lived in one of his apartments (and liked it) doesn't mean I like the guy. His apartments are decent, not great. One of his apartments at the foothills is great relative to the other apartments I lived. I think he should stay away from the hotel business or downtown.

4) No, I'm not against private landowners. Downtown needs more competition. That's free enterprise! Yes, Food carts do exist downtown. I was referring to the gourmet food carts that's been gaining popularity in America. Why not have more here downtown or the rest of Tucson? You must hate competition.

Last comment - "By my count I've seen requests for Arenas, Rainbow Bridges, Towers, Fountains, and even an aquarium all on this thread. The biggest problem with rio nuevo is that the council listened to all of you concurrently. It is impossible for "the public" to all be right at the same time"
I liked those request mentioned by posters on this thread. So I see that you are blaming the public more than the city council?

Listen man, sorry if I've shaken you. Calm down.

[Ritarancher]

Originally Posted by acatalanb

I got carried away with Tucson historical architecture. It would be nice to find a site with complete photos and history during the glory days of Tucson - pre-1960's 'revitalization' projects.

El Conquistador Hotel was demolished to make way for the El Con Mall around 68' . Looks like the 60's were good years for the wrecking ball business in Tucson. Here's a story about it's architect, the first Arizona registered female architect.



Photos from a Drachman ( I guess of Drachman St. fame ) . Drachman Story.



Looks like Tucson wasn't that bad until it was nuked during the 60's . Tucson would've been a great city if all of it's historic buildings were saved plus a sprinkle of current modern architecture ... and maybe a tower, rainbow bridge and the modern light rail.

Keeping the el conquisidor would have been of more use than the el con mall but the mall is coming back to life so maybe it still has a chance of being worth knocking down the hotel. Still the designers should have picked a better location for the mall. I heard that walmart is going to the mall is that true?

[acatalanb]

Originally Posted by Ritarancher

Keeping the el conquisidor would have been of more use than the el con mall but the mall is coming back to life so maybe it still has a chance of being worth knocking down the hotel. Still the designers should have picked a better location for the mall. I heard that walmart is going to the mall is that true?

I agree. I don't know why they have to knock down the El Conquistador. Never heard of Walmart going to the mall. That's news to me. However, I won't mind having a Walmart or Target downtown.

[Ritarancher]

I am still a fan of rainbow bridge and i think that the city is making a mistake by not building it

[Ritarancher]

Originally Posted by acatalanb

I agree. I don't know why they have to knock down the El Conquistador. Never heard of Walmart going to the mall. That's news to me. However, I won't mind having a Walmart or Target downtown.

That would be nice. I think that they should put a target downtown rather than a walmart. No offense to walmart lovers but it loose their value pretty fast. Also a Macys and Toys r u would be nice. Especially if they were two stories and had free parking at a parking garage near by.

[acatalanb]

Originally Posted by Ritarancher

That would be nice. I think that they should put a target downtown rather than a walmart. No offense to walmart lovers but it loose their value pretty fast. Also a Macys and Toys r u would be nice. Especially if they were two stories and had free parking at a parking garage near by.

I won't mind having any big box store downtown. In fact, I won't mind if they put a McDonald's or Carl's Jr right smack in the middle of downtown ( and yes, gourmet food carts). The current stores downtown didn't help revitalized the place. In fact, I think there was a Montgomery Wards right by the current UA Roy Place building. Walgreens was busy when they were at that Roy Place building. People stand in-line at Walgreens when I was working downtown. Competition is good.

[Ritarancher]

Originally Posted by acatalanb

I won't mind having any big box store downtown. In fact, I won't mind if they put a McDonald's or Carl's Jr right smack in the middle of downtown ( and yes, gourmet food carts). The current stores downtown didn't help revitalized the place. In fact, I think there was a Montgomery Wards right by the current UA Roy Place building. Walgreens was busy when they were at that Roy Place building. People stand in-line at Walgreens when I was working downtown. Competition is good.

Definitely a mc donalds. And a chili's or an apple bees

[acatalanb]

Originally Posted by Ritarancher

Definitely a mc donalds. And a chili's or an apple bees

Heck, I'd take anything that's cheap, good and filling. Downtown has a Bruegger's Bagels and Subway....But McDonald's have those $1 burgers and ice cream. Carl's Jr has $1 chicken sandwich.

I'd like to see a Trader's Joes or Safeway right smack in the middle of downtown, too. I live walking distance from 17th St. Market (there's a food cart besides it too) but there's some things that I can buy cheap at Safeway or Traders.

[Ritarancher]

Originally Posted by acatalanb

Heck, I'd take anything that's cheap, good and filling. Downtown has a Bruegger's Bagels and Subway....But McDonald's have those $1 burgers and ice cream. Carl's Jr has $1 chicken sandwich.

I'd like to see a Trader's Joes or Safeway right smack in the middle of downtown, too. I live walking distance from 17th St. Market (there's a food cart besides it too) but there's some things that I can buy cheap at Safeway or Traders.

A farmers market/grocery store ( preferably fry's because they are cheaper than the other stores) would be great. It will be like in seattle. Speaking of seattle, that is a very good city for tucson to be like. they have a downtown and lots of stores. They also have the space needle and water but tucson will never get water so a landmark (RAINBOW BRIDGE) would be nice. People also buy hotel rooms in downtown seattle to see the space needle so if tucson had the RAINBOW BRIDGE people would want to have a room with a view of the coolest bridge. So by then we would have both the Sheraton and rainbow bridge. Seattle has a very unique library and so does tucson. Seattle has lot's of stores downtown and hotels. If tucson had that stuff then we would probably have an I max theator and aquarium.

[acatalanb]

Originally Posted by Ritarancher

A farmers market/grocery store ( preferably fry's because they are cheaper than the other stores) would be great. It will be like in seattle. Speaking of seattle, that is a very good city for tucson to be like. they have a downtown and lots of stores. They also have the space needle and water but tucson will never get water so a landmark (RAINBOW BRIDGE) would be nice. People also buy hotel rooms in downtown seattle to see the space needle so if tucson had the RAINBOW BRIDGE people would want to have a room with a view of the coolest bridge. So by then we would have both the Sheraton and rainbow bridge. Seattle has a very unique library and so does tucson. Seattle has lot's of stores downtown and hotels. If tucson had that stuff then we would probably have an I max theator and aquarium.

Never been to Seattle but I lived in Portland. One thing that Tucson can't have is good tasting tap water.

Anyway, Valencia, Spain's Arts and Sciences cost about 150 million euros ( about $170 million - $240 million ) has an IMAX, Aquarium , Planetarium etc... I'd put this in place of the Mercado District, Convention Center and Convento. Here's another link

This one cost 50 million british pounds ( $100 million ) .

Those are places that Tucsonans or most people would want to visit. They're expensive but considering all the waste and the discounts that the city has offered developers I don't see it impossible to build.

[bleunick]

I really think the Crescent Smoke Shop should get its original early 1900s facade restored. Apparently that whole block is the only block in downtown still historically intact since 1921 and it would be pretty cool bringing all of the original exterior back.