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  #21  
Old Posted Jan 20, 2020, 9:52 PM
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There's a tiny settlement from my country out there as well. It's called 'Adélie Land'. You might have heard of it much more than I did since your occupation has taken you to this isolated continent that's been basically shared between several nations, mostly for scientific purpose, I assume.

Here's the distribution of the territory, for anyone curious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territ..._in_Antarctica

I didn't know the US had no official part of theirs, but they have some stations such as that you went to anyway.
Territorial claims probably don't matter so much over there after all. The scientific community has to be smarter than those claims.

I just googled the spot where the French community of scientists would stay over there, it's called Dumont d'Urville Station. Of course, it is just a little bunch of booths meant for scientists and no one ever hears of it over here, except for specialized folks.

It's probably very fine this way. The spot should remain pristine and at peace, so studies are not spoiled by any disturbance.
They say it helps them better understand the current state / shape of Earth, which is definitely important.
Yes France (with Italy) also maintains Concordia Station at Dome C. I've talked to some people who have been there... apparently the toilet facilities are difficult (due to strict separation between #1 and #2) but the food is great!
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  #22  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2020, 8:22 PM
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My mom is a McMurdo and is a distant relative of Archibald McMurdo so she's always been fascinated with Antarctica. Thanks for the shots! What were the temp's like when you were there?
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  #23  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2020, 9:09 AM
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Concordia Station at Dome C.
The year I was there the US Navy spent (successfully) repairing a broken-down C-130 at Dome C and eventually flying it out but there was no permanent activity there. So now the French are there? What do they do there?

Dumont d'Urville was there and well known when I was there. We talked to them on the radio periodically and sometimes to do medical consultations.

At Vostok the main activity was drilling through the ice cap.

I've posted this before but I call it "The Antarctic Medical Society"--all the MDs in McMurdo at that point in time--I'm on the far right:


Last edited by Pedestrian; Jan 22, 2020 at 9:20 AM.
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  #24  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2020, 6:49 PM
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The year I was there the US Navy spent (successfully) repairing a broken-down C-130 at Dome C and eventually flying it out but there was no permanent activity there. So now the French are there? What do they do there?
It's a joint Italian/French base: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concordia_Station

I've heard it put forth as a great place for a telescope, but I don't think they have any "big" projects like that the way the US has at the South Pole. It looks like they mostly do small-scale research projects.
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  #25  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2020, 7:25 PM
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Alright, time for some pictures from Pole!

Here is me taking a selfie after landing. Note the national guardsmen standing with the rope near the propellers. They don't turn them off (due to the extreme cold) so that guy is standing there with a rope so you don't accidentally reenact a scene from Indiana Jones.



And here I turned around to take a picture in front of the main building and station sign. Note that this was at 1 am (not that the time zone is super meaningful at Pole.
[img]
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/t3...=w1027-h770-no
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This is another shot of the main building at Pole. This is where everyone sleeps, eats and entertains. There is an Amundsen-style tent in front right now that people could sign up to sleep in (I didn't...).



A view from the other side, where the berthing modules can be seen:


The "arches," basically garages.


The IceCube Lab (or IceCube Counting Lab, in both cases, ICL), in the middle of the IceCube detector. The project I work on is IceCube "adjacent" and we use some of their lab space and server room space in there. I believe it used to be an elevated dorm in the distant past. Those two "silo" towers hold a bunch of cables that go down kilometers into the ice as the IceCube detector. They were clearly designed in Wisconsin. In the foreground you can see a beacon... that's where the skiway crosses the path to ICL.



View from the top of ICL of station (right) and MAPO (left). MAPO used to house the AMANDA experiment and now hosts some iteration of the BICEP telescope. The astute viewer can see the Antarctic Logistics Tourist camp in the far left and the atmospheric sciences building in the background.



The Dark Sector Lab (DSL), which hosts the South Pole Telescope (SPT) and another iteration of the BICEP telescope on the left. MAPO still on the right. A ton of the people on my floor at UChicago work on SPT, so it's funny to run into a bunch of people you know at the South Pole...


Want to go to the South Pole but you're not a scientist and don't want to work as a contractor? Have no fear, for the mere price of 70,000 USD you can stay at the Antarctic Logistics & Expeditions South Pole Camp! About a mile away from station, you can stay in the comfort of a luxury tent. And you're not allowed into the station except to the store to buy souvenirs. We were invited over here for Christmas (no tourists at the time, just the staff). Funny thing is that South Pole Station is on New Zealand Time (since it's supplied via McMurdo via Christchurch), but the ALE camp is on Chile time since it's supplied out of Punta Arenas.



Here is the Ceremonial South Pole. The South Pole version of the bean with a bunch of flags from the original signatories of the Antarctic Treaty:



Here is me on Christmas standing stupidly in front of the Ceremonial Pole. In retrospect, maybe I should have worn a less touristy shirt.



The geographic pole, on the other hand, moves a little bit every year. This is because the ice slides over the Earth slowly. On January 1st, I got to participate in the ceremonial moving of the Pole, where we each got to hold the new pole marker before it was unveiled. Every year, the Geographic Pole gets a new pole marker made by the winterovers. The tourists were also here for this, one of them wanted a picture with me since he thought we looked similar. I should have gotten his contact info... maybe he could fund my experiment. This is the marker this year:


If you did not already surmise, the terrain there is very flat and boring. Here is me driving a pisten bully to one of our detectors (located 6 km from station). The pisten bully is comfortable and hilarious to drive (it's like a video game with a joystick), but the snowmobile is much faster and more exciting (no pictures though...).


Me doing some surgery on one of my detectors. You can see the pisten bully in the back.


A sundog


Unlike McMurdo, you get your own room. My room however was very small


The galley. The food was mostly good, but of course very little in the way of freshies (fresh fruit or vegetables). Christmas dinner was the best... there was prime rib and... SALAD!


And finally, for now at least, I noticed this sad little building on my way out:
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  #26  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2020, 10:29 PM
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I think the tiny stations funded by France and Italy have been mostly busy at studying Earth's atmosphere.
I bet the French government wouldn't mind deploying bigger means over there, but we don't have any budget that would compare to that of the US feds.

However, I heard the EU had an awesome telescope facility in Chile's Atacama desert. There is some powerful related stuff of theirs over there.
Hopefully, you get an opportunity to visit it sometime if you're in this exciting field.
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  #27  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2020, 3:39 AM
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The galley. The food was mostly good, but of course very little in the way of freshies (fresh fruit or vegetables). Christmas dinner was the best... there was prime rib and... SALAD!
When I was there, in summer when the planes could fly, we got fresh produce almost every day. But the special note was the meat: Not long before I went there the US had found it "diplomatic" to buy tons of meat from Australia so there was a warehouse full of frozen beef in McMurdo. And because each living quarters had its own kitchen (so you could shelter in place during "whiteout" storms), those not living in the large building where the main galley was could requisition any kind of meat they wanted. We in the Medical team got mounds of filet mignon and made everything out of it.

Also, during the winter we had these cans of freeze-dried shrimp which, when reconstituted, made very acceptable shrimp cocktails. So we had shrimp cocktail with every meal or anytime you wanted a snack. The Navy, in its wisdom, calculated that people doing outside work required 7000 calories per day. So everyone was encouraged to EAT, EAT, EAT (I had no part in that calculation). I gained 40 pounds over the year and spent the last couple of months on a crash diet.
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  #28  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2020, 3:49 AM
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Originally Posted by canucklehead2 View Post
My mom is a McMurdo and is a distant relative of Archibald McMurdo so she's always been fascinated with Antarctica. Thanks for the shots! What were the temp's like when you were there?
I was there for 15 months so we had the full range of annual temps. As I said earlier, one day I think it got up to +42 degrees F (and liquid water was flowing in some gulleys). But on a typical McMurdo winter day it was about -40F (and twilight with the sun below the horizon but close enough that there was a "glow" at the horizon in mid-day). The lowest I saw at McMurdo was probably around -60 degrees F.

At the Pole (and also at Vostok), I believe it was about -100F when I was there.

At Pole Station they had what was called "The 300 Degree Club", membership in which involved working up a good sweat in a 200 degree F sauna (saunas and steambaths were everywhere in all the US bases), then running naked outside where it was about -100 degrees F and around the ceremonial pole, then back inside so that you experienced a 300 sudden temperature shift.

Other "clubs" the local idiots could join included the "Weddell Seal Swim Club" (taking a dip--no wetsuit--through a hole cut in the ice into McMurdo Sound where the water temp was about 29 degrees F because, of course, it's salt water). People doing this generally needed someone to pull them out of the water because their bodies went totally limp.
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  #29  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2020, 4:02 AM
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I bet the French government wouldn't mind deploying bigger means over there, but we don't have any budget that would compare to that of the US feds.
Besides budgets, another thing the French may not have is a staging area. The US can do what it does in the Antarctic largely because it has the friendly cooperation of New Zealand. Personnel and supplies are flown into Christchurch and stored/"staged" there, then flown to McMurdo when needed. When I was there the US had a substantial facility near the Christchurch airport and I assume still does--without this I doubt we could do what we do (in return for this, as I mentioned, we provide substantial support to New Zealand's Scott Base). Only certain types of aircraft can land in the Antarctic (the US mainly uses C-130s everywhere but McMurdo where jets can land, the various Europeans mostly use "Twin Otters" still I believe which are much smaller). But niether type of plane can haul that much long distances--they need a nearby staging base to go back and forth to bring in large amounts of supplies. Unless France has a colony in the far southern hemisphere that doesn't come to mind (as Britain still does in the Falklands), they too would have to make some kind of arrangement with a nearby country.
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  #30  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2020, 4:10 AM
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Besides budgets, another thing the French may not have is a staging area. The US can do what it does in the Antarctic largely because it has the friendly cooperation of New Zealand. Personnel and supplies are flown into Christchurch and stored/"staged" there, then flown to McMurdo when needed. When I was there the US had a substantial facility near the Christchurch airport and I assume still does--without this I doubt we could do what we do (in return for this, as I mentioned, we provide substantial support to New Zealand's Scott Base). Only certain types of aircraft can land in the Antarctic (the US mainly uses C-130s everywhere but McMurdo where jets can land, the various Europeans mostly use "Twin Otters" still I believe which are much smaller). But niether type of plane can haul that much long distances--they need a nearby staging base to go back and forth to bring in large amounts of supplies. Unless France has a colony in the far southern hemisphere that doesn't come to mind (as Britain still does in the Falklands), they too would have to make some kind of arrangement with a nearby country.
i don't know about France, but the Italian Antarctic Program also has some facilities at CHC. Mario Zuchelli is fairly close to McM to the extent that flights are often shared. When I was at McM 3 years ago, I flew back on an italian plane (an L-100 operated by Safair... a South African charter operator with an Afrikaans-speaking crew). We brought back a bunch of italians (and Kiwi's of course) on our way to CHC this year too.

My ice flights between CHC and McM have been
1) USAF C-17 (to Pegasus)
2) Safair L-100 (Italian Antarctic Program) (from Pegasus... probably one of the last flights out of Pegasus since it was ~6 days before Pegasus permanently closed)
3) Kiwi Air Force C-130 (to Phoenix)
4) 109th ANG LC-130 (from Willy)
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  #31  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2020, 9:37 PM
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Unless France has a colony in the far southern hemisphere that doesn't come to mind (as Britain still does in the Falklands), they too would have to make some kind of arrangement with a nearby country.
Wait, you mean as the US does in Hawaii or Alaska, don't you? Bwaha, ah, you had it coming.

Nah, I don't think there's any serious logistical issue. It's all a matter of budget allocated to research programs as usual here.
You make me thinking, I believe there was a time when France's relations to Australia and New Zealand were tense because of some nuclear tests around the French territorial waters of New Caledonia, but that's an old forgotten story.
I guess they would cooperate with the French whenever we'd ask for their help nowadays.
I mean they're the friends of pretty much everybody, including France.
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  #32  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2020, 9:53 PM
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Wait, you mean as the US does in Hawaii or Alaska, don't you? Bwaha, ah, you had it coming.

Nah, I don't think there's any serious logistical issue. It's all a matter of budget allocated to research programs as usual here.
You make me thinking, I believe there was a time when France's relations to Australia and New Zealand were tense because of some nuclear tests around the French territorial waters of New Caledonia, but that's an old forgotten story.
I guess they would cooperate with the French whenever we'd ask for their help nowadays.
I mean they're the friends of pretty much everybody, including France.

France also has the southern territories (Kerguelen, Crozet) but nobody lives there outside of research / meteorological stations. Too bad I bet they're beautiful.
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  #33  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2020, 8:53 AM
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Wait, you mean as the US does in Hawaii or Alaska, don't you? Bwaha, ah, you had it coming.

Nah, I don't think there's any serious logistical issue. It's all a matter of budget allocated to research programs as usual here.
You make me thinking, I believe there was a time when France's relations to Australia and New Zealand were tense because of some nuclear tests around the French territorial waters of New Caledonia, but that's an old forgotten story.
I guess they would cooperate with the French whenever we'd ask for their help nowadays.
I mean they're the friends of pretty much everybody, including France.
Hawaii and Alaska are parts of the US every bit as much as Kansas (unlike, say, Puerto Rico or American Samoa*). I realize France has "overseas departments" although Alaska is not "overseas", being on the same continent as the other 48 though not contiguous. And I didn't mean to cast a slur at France of any sort. I just meant that some place within a few hours flight of the Antarctic is very useful--and I would still argue essential--to intensive, large-scale activity on the continent. It takes about 4 hours as I recall to fly from Christchurch to McMurdo (it's been a long time so that could be off some) so a C-130 (and certainly a C-17 or, in my day, a C-141) can makes several flights a day to support an intensive deployment of people or material.

I have no reason to think France couldn't make an arrangement with one of the southern hemisphere countries--could also be in South America like Chile or Argentina--if they wanted to but the point here is just that so far as I know to this point they haven't and would need to if they wanted to increase their activity level.

*American Samoa has an Antarctic connection. When I went down there, the plane made a refueling stop in Pango Pango.
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  #34  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2020, 4:16 AM
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It takes about 4 hours as I recall to fly from Christchurch to McMurdo (it's been a long time so that could be off some) so a C-130 (and certainly a C-17 or, in my day, a C-141) can makes several flights a day to support an intensive deployment of people or material.
Haha, more like ~7 hours on a C-130 (5 hours on a C-17). And since the skiers are constantly falling apart (there was a flight to Pole this season that boomeranged back to McMurdo a few minutes before it was to arrive at Pole). It is very rare to have multiple flights per day nowadays from CHC to McMurdo. Although I think this is largely because the contractor is being cheap; this year cargo to Pole was often delayed by a month.
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  #35  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2020, 4:20 AM
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*American Samoa has an Antarctic connection. When I went down there, the plane made a refueling stop in Pango Pango.
Is that how the skiers get from Scotia NY to CHC?
Annoyingly,due to the limited number of skiers, the Greenlandic summer season ends in late July (even though the weather is nice for a good while longer) since the skiers have to get from Kanger to CHC.
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Old Posted Feb 6, 2020, 9:15 AM
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Haha, more like ~7 hours on a C-130 (5 hours on a C-17). And since the skiers are constantly falling apart (there was a flight to Pole this season that boomeranged back to McMurdo a few minutes before it was to arrive at Pole). It is very rare to have multiple flights per day nowadays from CHC to McMurdo. Although I think this is largely because the contractor is being cheap; this year cargo to Pole was often delayed by a month.
I was on a C-141 going between Christchurch and McMurdo but that should be comparable to a C-17 timewise--guess I was off by an hour. But even a C-130 could pull 2 trips a day if necessary.
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  #37  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2020, 9:21 AM
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Is that how the skiers get from Scotia NY to CHC?
Annoyingly,due to the limited number of skiers, the Greenlandic summer season ends in late July (even though the weather is nice for a good while longer) since the skiers have to get from Kanger to CHC.
In my day, the prop flying was done by the Navy's VXE-6 out of Pt. Mugu, CA while the Air Force flew only standard C-141s (that could only land at McMurdo--Williams Field--of course). The Pango Pango stop was made by a C-141. I guess the C-17s now have more range--maybe they can fly from Hawaii to Christchurch nonstop but I don't know about that.

I assume the Navy handed the ski-equipped C-130s over to the Air Force Reserve people.
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  #38  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2020, 2:58 PM
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In my day, the prop flying was done by the Navy's VXE-6 out of Pt. Mugu, CA while the Air Force flew only standard C-141s (that could only land at McMurdo--Williams Field--of course). The Pango Pango stop was made by a C-141. I guess the C-17s now have more range--maybe they can fly from Hawaii to Christchurch nonstop but I don't know about that.

I assume the Navy handed the ski-equipped C-130s over to the Air Force Reserve people.

Yeah the 109th Air National Guard out of Scotia NY currently operates the skiers. I believe Raven camp in Greenland (formerly the location of DYE-3) is where they train and they also have a significant presence in Kangerlussuaq (formerly Stromfjord).

Hilariously, the NZAF occasionally flies a 757 to McMurdo.
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