2019 CFL Season - Page 45

TimB09 · #**881** Posted **Oct 10, 2019, 6:27 PM**

Having a home playoff game this year will help the Als' bottom line for sure.

ScreamingViking · #**882** Posted **Oct 10, 2019, 8:19 PM**

I wonder what arrangement the CFL made during the takeover of operations. Did they effectively "buy" the team from Wetenhall? Does he still get a share of any sale?

From shit-storm to sense of stability is less than a season. Quite a tale

ScreamingViking · #**883** Posted **Oct 10, 2019, 8:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas

Only 3 CFL teams made money last year Riders Bombers and Esks

The Ticats may have been in the black too. The private owners have no obligation to show the books but given all the revenue sources THF has provided, and the team's cutback on freebies a number of years ago, I'd think Young is finally seeing some dividends of his investment in the community.

Acajack · #**884** Posted **Oct 10, 2019, 8:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas

those numbers look right to me I don't know what the Als rent is with McGill

The Alouettes actually pay rent in two places: McGill and the Big O, where they have their team offices and training centre.

Could not find any info but my guess is the rent at McGill is very cheap. The team actually invests its own money in the stadium (not just the expansion from a few years ago, but they also installed a new field) so I can't imagine they're paying an exaggerated amount in rent.

Acajack · #**885** Posted **Oct 10, 2019, 8:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimB09

Having a home playoff game this year will help the Als' bottom line for sure.

I wonder if they'll play it at the Big O? They certainly wouldn't fill it. Realistically they might get 30,000 but that's still better than what they can fit into McGill.

esquire · #**886** Posted **Oct 10, 2019, 8:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

The Ticats may have been in the black too. The private owners have no obligation to show the books but given all the revenue sources THF has provided, and the team's cutback on freebies a number of years ago, I'd think Young is finally seeing some dividends of his investment in the community.

Good point... and on that note, it's hard to believe that the RBs wouldn't have been profitable last season too. Same with the Stamps.

ScreamingViking · #**887** Posted **Oct 10, 2019, 8:46 PM**

The RedBlacks may still be doing well, despite the poor record and slightly lower attendance.

Toronto and Vancouver are probably the only really weak spots, profit-wise.

Andy6 · #**888** Posted **Oct 10, 2019, 11:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Considering that the only seats for Alouettes games that are below $50 a pop are the small end zone section and a couple of corner sections, I'd wager that the average fan is already paying north of $50 a ticket.

Generally speaking, under fifty bucks doesn't get you much at a football game anymore.

Are people really paying that though? For Argos, you can get discounted tickets from our office building concierge office, for example. Maybe Montreal has held the line more with comps and discounting.

elly63 · #**889** Posted **Oct 11, 2019, 1:29 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

The Alouettes actually pay rent in two places: McGill and the Big O, where they have their team offices and training centre.

Could not find any info but my guess is the rent at McGill is very cheap. The team actually invests its own money in the stadium (not just the expansion from a few years ago, but they also installed a new field) so I can't imagine they're paying an exaggerated amount in rent.

I posted an article a while back on them being at the Big O. The Big O was looking for tenants so I'm pretty sure they got a sweet deal.

elly63 · #**890** Posted **Oct 11, 2019, 1:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

The RedBlacks may still be doing well, despite the poor record and slightly lower attendance.

Toronto and Vancouver are probably the only really weak spots, profit-wise.

18k is acknowledged as the breakeven point under the new TV contract. The three teams posted above only making money is a bogus claim, I may have seen that in an article. I don't know how Ottawa is cooking the books but they have everything to be profitable as does Hamilton and Calgary. In the past the teams losing money were Toronto and Hamilton, then Toronto only. Montreal hit the skids as did BC but both are on the comeback trail likely with new owners before next season. Montreal used to be one of the best teams for sponsorships hopefully that will come back again.

esquire · #**891** Posted **Oct 11, 2019, 2:12 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63

The three teams posted above only making money is a bogus claim, I may have seen that in an article.

I think I can figure out the reason for that claim - Sask, Edmonton and Winnipeg are community owned and release their results to the public. Someone probably searched for information regarding CFL teams and profits, found only those three clubs mentioning profits, an inferred that all of the other (private) teams run losses. I don't know how else you would draw the conclusion that only Sask, Edmonton and Winnipeg are profitable.

thurmas · #**892** Posted **Oct 11, 2019, 2:14 AM**

The 18k figure is bogus it has been mentioned CFL teams need 22k on average to break even. The Blue Bombers average 27,000 a year for a long time more or less and do not make huge profits.

esquire · #**893** Posted **Oct 11, 2019, 2:37 AM**

I don't think you can say there is a league-wide magic number that applies across the board. Attendance is not the only element to revenue, and let's face it, teams that make more tend to spend more too. A team like Montreal will be a little tighter with the pocketbook than the prairie teams, so the profit threshold will be lower.

blueandgoldguy · #**894** Posted **Oct 11, 2019, 4:16 AM**

18,000 was the claimed break even point for the Argos under their old pricing structure, assuming few freebies. They have slashed prices to the point they are the cheapest ticket in the CFL. Average price is $35. The break even point for the team is lot higher than 18,000 at this point.

Montreal is giving away a lot of freebies this year to boost the numbers. New ownership is expected to lose $7 million in 2020...so that means they are losing at least that much this year...and ultimately that means each CFL franchise is paying upwards of $1 million each to keep the Als alive this season.

https://montrealgazette.com/sports/f...nt-boivin-says

Boivin said he has daily conversations with either CFL commissioner Randy Ambrosie, league officials, potential owners or lawyers. He believes the delay in selling the team comes from the various groups attempting to determine what precisely they’re inheriting and what the future looks like. According to a source, potential owners have been told to budget for losses of $7 million in 2020.

While the Als are averaging 17,637 spectators, Boivin admitted between 2,000 and 6,000 tickets have been given away for each game, to fill the stadium and improve the atmosphere. The team has about 8,500 season-ticket holders.

“If we were selling them we wouldn’t be giving them away,” he said.

I wouldn't be surprised if that is the hold up in selling the team. What ownership group wants to stomach losses of $7 million in year one alone....and probably several million a year for the next couple years after that? And that is if things go well on the field and the crowds and corporate sponsorships improve each season. Even giving away the team for free will be a tough sell which is what they are probably going to have to do as the team has an accumulated deficit the new owners will likely incur.

It doesn't sound like there has been much progress in the sale of the team so it will be interesting to see what will happen should there be no resolution of the issue in the off season. Will the owners of the other teams be willing to foot the bill another year? Or would they be willing to subsidize the new owners by paying a portion of their accumulated debt/first year deficit?

elly63 · #**895** Posted **Oct 11, 2019, 7:39 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas

The 18k figure is bogus it has been mentioned CFL teams need 22k on average to break even. The Blue Bombers average 27,000 a year for a long time more or less and do not make huge profits.

Where does it say 22k, source? it used to be said to be 24k in the olden days long before the TV contract.

esquire · #**896** Posted **Oct 11, 2019, 1:41 PM**

Well, the Bombers got their wish... there is snow and ice everywhere in Winnipeg this morning. Not just a dusting, we're talking inches deep. The ground game will be huge tomorrow vs. Montreal. Time to put Strevy and Harris into overdrive and rack up those yards!!!!!

thurmas · #**897** Posted **Oct 11, 2019, 4:09 PM**

for the ticats 22,000 is their break even point I would say Hamilton is probably the most average of cfl fan bases not the best not the worst somewhere in the middle so they are a good team to take as an average barometer league wide.

https://www.thespec.com/sports-story...ers-questions/

elly63 · #**898** Posted **Oct 11, 2019, 8:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas

for the ticats 22,000 is their break even point I would say Hamilton is probably the most average of cfl fan bases not the best not the worst somewhere in the middle so they are a good team to take as an average barometer league wide.

I have posted the above article several times to illustrate what the approximate costs to running a team are. Whether you obtained it from one of my posts or not, most times I post it I usually draw attention to the fact that this article was written before the new TV contract that was 2 and a half times larger than the one that this article references.

Note the date of the above article is 2011, the new contract began in 2014, so no, the breakeven point is not 22k.

Report: TSN and CFL agree on deal worth $40-million a year
Dan Ralph The Canadian Press March 21, 2013 Updated May 11, 2018

CFL commissioner Mark Cohon believes the road to profitability for the league's two troubled southern Ontario teams is now significantly easier thanks to a lucrative new broadcast agreement.

The deal with TSN, which runs from 2014 through 2018, is worth in the neighbourhood of $40 million per season, according to a league source.

That's more than 2 1/2 times the previous five-year agreement, which was worth $15 million a year. That means starting in 2014, CFL teams can expect to receive more money from the league.

That's good news for the Toronto Argonauts and Hamilton Tiger-Cats, the CFL's only money-losing teams (in 2013). Cohon said the new deal should allow clubs that struggled financially in the past to become profitable while also enhancing franchise values.

...

blueandgoldguy · #**899** Posted **Oct 11, 2019, 8:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire

Well, the Bombers got their wish... there is snow and ice everywhere in Winnipeg this morning. Not just a dusting, we're talking inches deep. The ground game will be huge tomorrow vs. Montreal. Time to put Strevy and Harris into overdrive and rack up those yards!!!!!

Between the terrible ticket sales, the terrible weather and what's sure to be even more a chore to reach the stadium tomorrow I bet there won't be more than 10,000 at the stadium.

thurmas · #**900** Posted **Oct 11, 2019, 8:36 PM**

The salary cap for players also rose from 4.3 to 5.7 million since 2011 and coaches salary cap is almost 2.6 million so most of that extra tv money is eaten up by clubs.

https://cfldb.ca/faq/compensation/