Next southern city to build a tower in the 85-100 story range

[CaliNative]

Originally Posted by Dariusb

Leaving Miami out since they've already accomplished this feat; what southern city will be next to do this? Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, Austin or Nashville?

My guess would be rivals Houston or Dallas, always trying to show eachother up as big dog in Tejas. Maybe Austin will come along and show them both up.

On the Pacific coast, everybody thinks it will be LA or SF. Would be funny if Seattle came along and did it. They built the first 70+ years before LA (Columbia Square, 76 floors). Oakland or Long Beach would be perfect "I'm here too" to SF and La. San Diego could do it if they didn't have the 500 foot limit.

[chris08876]

Almost two weeks into this thread/poll, and I would of thought Dallas would of gotten the most votes out of the choices. Interesting with Austin.

[dc_denizen]

Originally Posted by Shawn

I'm no construction industry expert, but on Arch Boston we have a bunch of actual developers, PMs, and architects working for the big guys. To a person, they're saying capital markets for large new projects are frozen solid and will be for the foreseeable future. To quote one of the more knowledgeable members, "Debt capital markets are freaked out about construction lending right now, credit is super expensive and the last thing that lenders like is uncertainty. They get paid to NOT take risks on stuff, and there is way way way too much going on to finance a project this size. Furthermore the big syndicates that would take pieces of a deal this size are kind of out of the market because of all the junk they need to deal with in their existing book, they're not going to float a $700MM loan on a ground up deal that's a total flier right now."

I don't see anything this size going up anywhere in the US in the next decade outside of NYC and maybe Chicago and Miami. No one has any appetite for this level of risk.

Odd given the massive liquidity injection by central banks . Borrowing money is basically costless at this point .

[TexasPlaya]

Originally Posted by chris08876

Almost two weeks into this thread/poll, and I would of thought Dallas would of gotten the most votes out of the choices. Interesting with Austin.

Houston historically builds the +700ft office buildings.

Austin and DFW usually build the highrise residential/hotels. Austin has been building more large offices recently, but it has the most mixed use high rise potential.

My money is on Austin then Houston.

[C.]

Originally Posted by dc_denizen

Odd given the massive liquidity injection by central banks . Borrowing money is basically costless at this point .

Construction lending is still very risky and underwriting standards are very tight. They are projects being cancelled because they cannot obtain financing, even though interest rates are at zero and liquidity is flooding the system.

If the Fed could guarantee construction loans like it does with certain mortgages, it really would be a boon for the industry...

[DanielG425]

Of the cities listed, I think Austin will be the next one to build a 75+ story tower. They have the land prices and the centralized urban infrastructure to do it. I give it five years. I don't see Dallas building anything above 50 stories in the next decade. They are perhaps the most decentralized major city in Texas coupled with the fact that they are a city of suburban office campuses. Houston is also decentralized, but not to the extent of Dallas. Houston has a long history of going vertical and there is a new emphasis on urbanizing the only node of the region, that being the 610 loop. I think in the next 5-8 years we'll probably see a 60+ story tower in Houston considering that right now there are 4+ 40+ story towers under construction with a consistent healthy demand for condo/apartment living.

[ATXboom]

Economics for a tower that large favor Austin. Highest land values of them all. Plus the one building the most residential and mixed use which is likely what a tower like that would have to be.

[llamaorama]

To me it seems Dallas-Fort Worth stopped building genuinely huge skyline defining skyscrapers in the 1980s, with a few recent exceptions like Museum tower and Fountain Place of course.

Instead there are a lot of new high-rise towers in Uptown which are maybe only 1/3 the height of the big downtown landmarks, and then TONS of 4-5 story donut apartment buildings just everywhere.

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

To me it seems Dallas-Fort Worth stopped building genuinely huge skyline defining skyscrapers in the 1980s, with a few recent exceptions like Museum tower and Fountain Place of course.

Fountain Place: best skyscraper in the South, one of the best in the country. IM Pei

[llamaorama]

Sorry, I meant to say its "twin" residential building that mostly mimics the original's glass and general form.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by C.

Construction lending is still very risky and underwriting standards are very tight. They are projects being cancelled because they cannot obtain financing, even though interest rates are at zero and liquidity is flooding the system.

If the Fed could guarantee construction loans like it does with certain mortgages, it really would be a boon for the industry...

You mean bring back the conditions of the savings and loan crisis?

That era helped a lot of big towers get built on spec, but that included a lot of bad investments and shady deals. And the result was severe overbuilding.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by Shawn

Fountain Place: best skyscraper in the South, one of the best in the country. IM Pei

My favorite skyscraper!

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by craigs

My favorite skyscraper!

Now just imagine if its planned twin had been built...


PCF

[CaliNative]

Originally Posted by Shawn

Now just imagine if its planned twin had been built...


PCF

Obviously inspired by the Pennzoil twins in Houston, but much taller. Was it the same architect? I agree, the single building looks lonely without the other one. But alas oil price collapsed back in the early 1980s as did the Texas banks so the tower remains lonely.

[CaliNative]

Ft. Worth, Texas's forgotten big city, gets no respect. No votes. I vote Ft. Worth. San Antonio, where my mom was born, also gets no mention. San Anton with an underperforming skyline could join the Tejas big leagues with an 80 floor monster. El Paso, the giant of west Texas, would be an even bigger longshot. Needs to build a 30 story first. With land prices cheap, the pass has a single family detached houses sprawl layout, so zero chance I guess.

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by CaliNative

Obviously inspired by the Pennzoil twins in Houston, but much taller. Was it the same architect? I agree, the single building looks lonely without the other one. But alas oil price collapsed back in the early 1980s as did the Texas banks so the tower remains lonely.

The late great Philip Johnson did Pennzoil Place, 1976 - the same year IM Pei did the Hancock Tower in Boston. Fountain Place was also done by Pei, 10 years later. He really loved that highly-reflective blue glass during this phase of his career (the surfaces of the Hancock Tower and Fountain Place are basically identical). I agree, there looks to be some strong cues taken from the former.

Fountain Place is getting a shorter residential twin as we speak, which may end up looking even better than an identical twin would have.

[wwmiv]

Originally Posted by CaliNative

Ft. Worth, Texas's forgotten big city, gets no respect. No votes. I vote Ft. Worth. San Antonio, where my mom was born, also gets no mention. San Anton with an underperforming skyline could join the Tejas big leagues with an 80 floor monster.

Texas’s two largest suburbs? Ha.

[JManc]

Dallas got Fountain Place and I.M.Pei dropped this load on Houston a few years earlier:



The fifth side is ugly and wouldn't be so bad if it was four sided all like this:

[craigs]

Originally Posted by Shawn

Fountain Place is getting a shorter residential twin as we speak, which may end up looking even better than an identical twin would have.

I'm actually glad that a twin was not constructed--I think FP should stand out, and it does. That said, the newer residential tower is not exactly thrilling (from what I've seen).

Originally Posted by JManc

Dallas got Fountain Place and I.M.Pei dropped this load on Houston a few years earlier:

Hey, at least it's a pretty clean design and not--as most towers of that age were--some gross PoMo monstrosity.

[plinko]

Both Hancock in Boston and Fountain Place in Dallas were designed by Henry Cobb, Pei’s very gifted partner. Way too many people forget about him and James Freed (US Bank in Minneapolis).

Pei IS responsible for Chase in Houston though.