Phoenix CityScape Thread - Page 16

HooverDam · #**301** Posted **Apr 17, 2007, 5:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrendog

This is the first time I have looked at this thread.. Seems VERY similar to the City Creek Center in SLC..

I've never been to SLC, and thus am not familiar w/ the City Creek Center, if we get something like that, would you say thats a good thing? How has that project worked out for you guys?

wrendog · #**302** Posted **Apr 17, 2007, 5:39 PM**

well, the project just started (I noticed on the first page in this thread that the timeline for CityScape was 2006-20011, which is exactly the timeline for CCC), so I can't comment on how it's working out, but renderings look great and construction is progressing rapidly. CCC will have 3 20+ story residential towers and some smaller commercial and res towers too. It will have "open space" and a skybridge (well that is being debated right now). We are excited here. There is a thread in this forum that specifically relates to the project with descriptions and renderings on the first page. Check 'em out! http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=117672

Archdevil · #**303** Posted **Apr 17, 2007, 7:52 PM**

I emailed RED a couple of weeks ago and they said they have not set an official ground breaking yet but hope to get started this summer. It was also mentioned that they are working on parking garage and design concepts. So who knows at this point, I guess we will just all have to wait and see. I think the fact that they are responding to emails shows that the project will eventually happen.

nbrindley · #**304** Posted **Apr 17, 2007, 11:02 PM**

Phoenix Development Thread, Post 1367

The document HX Guy posted lists Feb. 2008 for start of construction.

ljbuild · #**305** Posted **Apr 23, 2007, 11:11 PM**

IT is time for the city of PHOENIX TO quit letting these lowlife, fowl smelling, forever-whining,stupid" save patriots" skumbags stall this project.
FIRST OF ALL A CONCRETE, UNSHADED PIECE OF CRAP LIKE PATRIOTS PARK DOES NOT BELONG IN PHOENIX TO BEGIN WITH PEROID!!!!!
A PARK LIKE THAT BELONGS IN COOLER CITIES LIKE SEATTLE OR PORTLAND.
A PARK SIMILAR TO CENTRAL PARK IN NEW YORK IS WHAT IS WHAT BELONGS IN A HOT CITY LIKE PHOENIX. "WE NEED SHADE NOT CONCRETE"
PHOENIX HAS TALKED ABOUT CHANGING DOWNTOWN.
Well then change it. This cityscape project will contain something that the ASU STUDENTS will benefit greatly from: A GROCERY STORE.
TO THE CITY OF PHOENIX, IF YOU WANT PEOPLE TO COME DOWNTOWN, YOU NEED TO BUILD SOMETHING (LIKE CITYSCAPE) THAT WILL ATTRACT PEOPLE DOWN THERE AND IF ANYTHING USE YOUR POWERS AGAINST AND/OR PUT A CURFEW AGAINST THESE "SAVE PATRIOTS BRAINLESS IDIOTS"
AND GET GOING ON THIS PROJECT.
IN ADDITION,
SOME PEOPLE ARE UPSET ABOUT THE DESERT BEING BLADED. WELL !! WELL!!
I CAN SOMEWHAT AGREE WITH YOU. HOWEVER NOW THAT THE FOCUS IS BEING SHIFTED DOWNTOWN IN TERMS OF URBAN DEVELOPMENT, YOU HAVE THESE """TUMBLEWEED-HEADED" SAVE PATRIOTS SKUMBAGS POPPING UP THAT WILL CAUSE MORE DESERT TO BE BLADED.
BECAUSE NO DEVELOPER WANTS TO GO THRU ALL THIS B.S. WHEN THEY CAN JUST FLY WAY OUT TO THE SUBURBS AND BEYOND AND NOT HAVE TO DEAL WITH MESS LIKE THIS OR "SOME PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
NOW TO THE ONES WHO ARE AGAINST BLADING THE DESERT, BRING YOUR FIGHT DOWNTOWN AND LASH IT OUT AGAINST THESE "SAVE PATRIOTS" LOW-LIFE SMELLY SKUMBAGS.

HooverDam · #**306** Posted **Apr 23, 2007, 11:20 PM**

^Welcome to the forum and all, but please learn to type like you aren't 12 years old. TALKING IN ALL CAPS IS ANNOYING AND MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE A TOOL.

^See, nobody likes that.

sundevilgrad · #**307** Posted **Apr 24, 2007, 2:41 AM**

I don't think it's the save PSP people holding-up this project anymore, unless they're planning on filing a lawsuit or something. I thought the save PSP stuff was done when the Parks Board voted in favor of the project?

BTW... You're preaching to the chior when you come onto a "skyscraper" forum and start railing against suburbia and touting the benefits of urban development. Yes, the city of Phoenix could do a better job as a catalyst and facilitator of these projects but they've also come along way in the past few years. Slowly, but surely we're seeing the change happen. Cityscape won't make or break downtown. It'd be a very nice addition in my opinion, but I think the ball is already rolling and gaining momentum. Maybe we're starting to hit the low-end of the "critical-mass" all the talking heads like to refer to when talking about DT Phoenix. 2009. ASU, Sheraton, 44 Monroe, Hotel Monroe, SCS, Light Rail, Alta, and the new convention center will all be operational, and there's a chance that Cityscape, The W, Copperpointe, Orpheum 2, Cosmopolitan Tower, Central Park East, The Jet and the Jackson Street entertainment district will working towards completion.

District8 · #**308** Posted **Apr 24, 2007, 3:37 AM**

I wish someone would give me a $100,000,000 under ground parking garage. It really helps the economics of a deal.

andrewkfromaz · #**309** Posted **Apr 24, 2007, 6:07 AM**

The non-profit group from NYC Project for Public Spaces has several great examples of what public parks in downtown areas CAN be. It's far too late for PSP, but maybe someday we can see some changes to Margaret T. Hance Park (Deck Park) that make it a place people (besides bums) want to be.

Also hopefully the CityScape project will get public open space RIGHT. I don't think it's too much to ask. I'm not too optimistic that the developer has the experience to do it right immediately, but maybe after the project is built it can be upgraded. Phoenix's malls tend to get substantial infrastructure/aesthetic upgrades over the years, so I don't think what they build immediately will necessarily represent the long-term future.

jvbahn · #**310** Posted **Apr 24, 2007, 10:02 AM**

I must say I agree with HooverDam on the all caps thing...there is enough drama on this page without having RAGEFUL CAPS PEOPLE.... Points eloquently made with subdued lower case letters are always appreciated.

By the way, is it just me, or has the PHX crowd become awfully quiet in recent days, is nothing happening? Usually the weekend is when people get out there and start taking pics.

HooverDam · #**311** Posted **Apr 24, 2007, 4:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewkfromaz

but maybe someday we can see some changes to Margaret T. Hance Park (Deck Park) that make it a place people (besides bums) want to be.

Deck Park is pretty much a disaster. I live very close to it, but when I want to go to a park, I usually ride my back past it and go up to Montery park (3rd st/Oak).

The first problem w/ Deck Park is that its just a big grass field. Want to play softball there? Sorry.What about a soccer goal? Look somewhere else. How about basketball? Nope. The area directly west of Central Ave that is a little concrete scape would be a great spot for tennis, racquet ball or tether ball, but instead its a concrete slab of nothingness.

The park has a water feature, just south of the library, but has anyone ever seen it turned on? I haven't, it just sits there collecting mold and telling visitors to go away. Even the grass the city used in the park is terrible. Its not lush or nice. I don't feel like diving for a poorly thrown football on that dusty mess. The parks department needs to learn to do things right, or not at all, that grass is incredible unappealing.

It would be nice if the Japanese Friendship garden was also a part of the park and had free admission, as it would expand the scope of the park.

The biggest problem facing the park though is that there isn't enough density surrounding it to make it well used. Sure, perhaps people using the library might go sit in the park for a minute, and the cameramen from 12 News may use it on their smoke break, but who else?

It would be fantastic if the underused parking lot adjacent to W Culver St was sold off and developed into townhouses/rowhouses/brownstones. It seems to me you could develop half of that lot and still have plenty of parking for park visitors. Its the typical Phoenix obsession w/ surface parking lots. Go to Google Maps or Microsoft Live.com and notice how many parking lots surruond the area that go mostly unused. The lot along 3rd St for instance, could probably stand to have development on it, perhaps a midrise office building, with garage parking for itself and the adjacent church.

Heck, look at the HUGE surface lot north of the Library. It would be much better if the north half of that lot was turned into a garage (and in a dream world, an office tower, w/ garage on the bottom for itself and library patrons), with ground floor retail, and then have the south section of the current lot turned into more green open space, thus surronding the library in parkland.

There is also a section of the park thats bounded by the I10, Culver St, 3rd ave and 5th ave that seems completely cut off from the rest of the park. I'd be happy if they scrapped it all together and something was developed there.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, but Deck Park is Phoenix's only chance for something a nice urban, large urban park, and they (unsurprisingly dropped the ball). Even if they did do a lot of renovations to the park, its probably far too small to ever become something magnificent like Central Park in NYC or Forrest Park in St Louis.

ljbuild · #**312** Posted **Apr 24, 2007, 4:41 PM**

By The Way Thanks For Reading My Post , However
All I Care About Is That It Is Readable , Other Wise This Is Not A Grade Or Grammar School I Am Attending. At Least I Didn't Use Cuss Or Swear Words Like I Have Found "here And There" Throughout This Forum.
Unless You Are The Type That I Described Above And I Just Happened To "hit Home With You"
Not To Forget, Go Suns!!!!!!!!

Vicelord John · #**313** Posted **Apr 24, 2007, 4:51 PM**

I sEe YoUr CaPiTaLiZaTiOn Of ThE fIrSt LeTtEr Of EvErY wOrD, aNd RaIsE yOu OnE tEeNaGe GiRl SpEaK.

sundevilgrad · #**314** Posted **Apr 24, 2007, 5:02 PM**

F-in Vandercook, funny shit man...

vertex · #**315** Posted **Apr 24, 2007, 5:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooverDam

Deck Park is pretty much a disaster. I live very close to it, but when I want to go to a park, I usually ride my back past it and go up to Montery park (3rd st/Oak).

The first problem w/ Deck Park is that its just a big grass field. Want to play softball there? Sorry.What about a soccer goal? Look somewhere else. How about basketball? Nope. The area directly west of Central Ave that is a little concrete scape would be a great spot for tennis, racquet ball or tether ball, but instead its a concrete slab of nothingness.

The park has a water feature, just south of the library, but has anyone ever seen it turned on? I haven't, it just sits there collecting mold and telling visitors to go away. Even the grass the city used in the park is terrible. Its not lush or nice. I don't feel like diving for a poorly thrown football on that dusty mess. The parks department needs to learn to do things right, or not at all, that grass is incredible unappealing.

It would be nice if the Japanese Friendship garden was also a part of the park and had free admission, as it would expand the scope of the park.

The biggest problem facing the park though is that there isn't enough density surrounding it to make it well used. Sure, perhaps people using the library might go sit in the park for a minute, and the cameramen from 12 News may use it on their smoke break, but who else?

It would be fantastic if the underused parking lot adjacent to W Culver St was sold off and developed into townhouses/rowhouses/brownstones. It seems to me you could develop half of that lot and still have plenty of parking for park visitors. Its the typical Phoenix obsession w/ surface parking lots. Go to Google Maps or Microsoft Live.com and notice how many parking lots surruond the area that go mostly unused. The lot along 3rd St for instance, could probably stand to have development on it, perhaps a midrise office building, with garage parking for itself and the adjacent church.

Heck, look at the HUGE surface lot north of the Library. It would be much better if the north half of that lot was turned into a garage (and in a dream world, an office tower, w/ garage on the bottom for itself and library patrons), with ground floor retail, and then have the south section of the current lot turned into more green open space, thus surronding the library in parkland.

There is also a section of the park thats bounded by the I10, Culver St, 3rd ave and 5th ave that seems completely cut off from the rest of the park. I'd be happy if they scrapped it all together and something was developed there.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, but Deck Park is Phoenix's only chance for something a nice urban, large urban park, and they (unsurprisingly dropped the ball). Even if they did do a lot of renovations to the park, its probably far too small to ever become something magnificent like Central Park in NYC or Forrest Park in St Louis.

HD, just curious to know (in your estimation) how many events do you see held in the deck park? I don't live downtown, but it just 'appears' that many city-sponsored events are held at Indian school park instead. The deck park used to get a lot of city events back in the early/mid 90's, before Indian school opened up.

Phoenix will probably do something with the park in the near future, especially with all of the nearby apartments/condos going up. I agree, it's a fantastic resource, and one of only two decently-sized 'urban' parks in the valley that also have great views (Tempe beach park being the other).

As a matter of fact, Phoenix could learn a lot about scheduling events in their park from Tempe. There is something going on in the beach park about every other weekend, even during the summers. Deck park could be used in a similar way.

HooverDam · #**316** Posted **Apr 24, 2007, 5:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by vertex

HD, just curious to know (in your estimation) how many events do you see held in the deck park? I don't live downtown, but it just 'appears' that many city-sponsored events are held at Indian school park instead. The deck park used to get a lot of city events back in the early/mid 90's, before Indian school opened up.

Thats tough to say, I can't see the park or anything from my window, but it seems to have stuff going on at least once a month. The last big thing I remember was the Sister Cities Festival which I checked out. It was an alright event, but it just seemed like a big travel/vacation promotion. I went thinking that each sister city was going to have unique food from its home country (I don't know where I got that idea, guess I assumed), so I was disappointed when it was just your typical carnival food.

Speaking of carnivals, adding an element like that to Deck park could perhaps bring more users to it. Maybe it would be too similar to the Kiddie Land at Encanto, but imagine if Deck Park had something like the London Eye in it:

If you added just one big attraction like that, shops, arcades w/ games, cafes and offices would be falling all over themselves to get near it. Look what the lake did for Tempe. If Phoenix could figure out something along those lines, I'd think it would be very advantageous to the area.

andrewkfromaz · #**317** Posted **Apr 24, 2007, 7:25 PM**

You guys should check the link I posted. There is a ton of really good advice for programming parks so that they get a lot of usage, amenities that draw people, and so on. One thing I thought was notable is that the size of the park doesn't really matter, there are great smaller-sized parks as well. Actually, Deck Park is pretty big anyway. There is certainly enough room to make it a special place. The way it is now is clearly unappealing and boring. It could be so much better...

I disagree with your assessment of the lot north of the Library. It could be more dense parking, but the way it is now, it provides free parking for a variety of things and could help provide parking for the park, if the park was ever managed correctly to draw people.

nbrindley · #**318** Posted **Apr 24, 2007, 11:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by John_Vandercook

I sEe YoUr CaPiTaLiZaTiOn Of ThE fIrSt LeTtEr Of EvErY wOrD, aNd RaIsE yOu OnE tEeNaGe GiRl SpEaK.

His unusual capitalization scheme is due to a filter that is built into the forum software. ljbuild actually typed his post entirely in caps, but the forum software modified it to be less offensive to the eyes.

ljbuild, please do not type all in caps, it is annoying to read, and gives the impression that you are shouting everything, which is also annoying.

ljbuild · #**319** Posted **Apr 25, 2007, 1:54 AM**

HEY HooverDam sorry if i offended you BUT you don't have to read my posts if you dont want to, choice is yours!
BUT I AM simply making a point.
Im a PRO-GROWTH person. I like to see things CHANGE for the better for Phoenix and more money and JOBS pumped into this city. Every time Phoenix is compared to just about any other american city, PHOENIX, is always lagging behind. less than ten years ago Phoenix was the BIGGEST metropolitan area in the nation without an adequate freeway system.
Yes we have come a long way in that era. BUT, because the city waited so long to build them, once they finsih the new ones they are already near obsolete. THE DOWNTOWN has a similar blueprint.
Here is the situation, PHOENIX is the 5th largest city in the nation in terms of population. BUT ! The Downtown HAS NOT SHOWN IT !!!!
Now i am not blind, i do see the things taking shape downtown (light-rail, new convention center etc.) HOWEVER, when someone comes along with an idea to spruce up downtown or even anywhere in Phoenix, and you have some BACKWARDS THINKING IDIOT/S GET IN THE WAY of progress, that is what PISSES me off.
For example, Phoenix is also lagging behind in HOTEL space. The SHERATON hotel alone wont cut it.
So here you have the "W" HOTEL trying to help fill that gap. BUT , what do you have in the way, More idots trying to save an ugly "sun mercantile" bldg. that is on the site that is only good enough to draw rats and cobwebs.
ANYTHING that will make downtown better and STICK-OUT im all for it.

HX_Guy · #**320** Posted **Apr 25, 2007, 2:13 AM**

A new permit was issued for CityScape on 04/20. Not sure what it is or it's importance, but at least it's something showing progress...

Permit# ABND-070049 Issue Date 4/20/07 Expires 4/19/08
Permit Description ABANDONMENT APPLICATION
Project 06-5309 CITYSCAPE

Description/Scope of Work: MISCELLANEOUS

EFFECTIVE BUILDING CODES: 2003 IBC, 2003 IRC, 2003 IMC, 2003 IECC (As amended by the 2004 supplement), 2005 NEC, ARIZONA STATE PLUMBING CODE, 2003 IFC

DESCRIPTION OF WORK:
BETWEEN CENTRAL AVE & 1ST ST, WASHINGTIN & JEFFERSON, BLOCK 22
TWO ALLEYS AND PUE'S