HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Midwest


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #3201  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2022, 2:24 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
SUSPENDED
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 21,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by moorhosj1 View Post
That is a reasonable stance to take. I get it, I don’t like paying taxes. The number thrown around at the time was that 97% would see a decrease or the same. I personally think KG used his money to convince people to vote against an actual tax cut for themselves based on the boogeyman of a future tax increase. In the meantime, he saved himself a big tax hike. And he still threatens to move away and take his company with him.
Again, I think you are oversimplifying KG’s efforts as just “trying to reduce his own taxes”. That’s just not how this works.

I don’t think his personal tax burden is really that big of a motivating factor for him—he can abandon Illinois in a heartbeat if he wants to. I think he is more interested in Illinois cleaning up its image financially and becoming more welcome to investment so that companies (and people) can grow and thrive without worrying about what new ways to generate revenue the various bloated Government bodies in this State will come up with. And that is 100% on the table for the Democrats. Nothing is not fair game with them running things.
__________________
Stop being scared of catching a cold
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3202  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2022, 5:03 PM
moorhosj1 moorhosj1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
I don’t think his personal tax burden is really that big of a motivating factor for him—he can abandon Illinois in a heartbeat if he wants to. I think he is more interested in Illinois cleaning up its image financially and becoming more welcome to investment so that companies (and people) can grow and thrive without worrying about what new ways to generate revenue the various bloated Government bodies in this State will come up with. And that is 100% on the table for the Democrats. Nothing is not fair game with them running things.
You seem to hold both of these ideas in your head without seeing the irony:
  • Alderpeople in Chicago are selfish idiots only in it for themselves
  • Ken Griffin is a benevolent billionaire looking out for the working man

The way you speak about each shows pretty clearly where the bias lives. Billionaires don't make investment without expecting a return on that investment. It's the main tenant of financial investing, which is Ken Griffin's specialty.

I think KG stays in Chicago because he likes Chicago. We shouldn't bend over backwards to make him stay. All the things he wants to change have been present since he started his company here in 1990. People who deeply care about a place don't threaten to leave if they don't get their way.

Do you think Pritzker is as benevolent as KG? It's hard to tell because everytime you bring him up, you make fun of his weight and mention his inheritance. Two things which have nothing to do with his governing or his motivations. What, other than his politics aligning with yours, makes you believe KG cares about anything other than his bottom line? He should run for Governor himself if he cares so deeply, then we might actually know what he stands for/against.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3203  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2022, 9:46 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
SUSPENDED
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 21,375
^ Sorry, but just no

We’ve got two billionaires with two very different philosophies. I prefer one over the other, although yes he’s not running for office but we’ve already covered that. I’m more interested in the candidate that is running, it’s folks like you who keep going back to KG

It’s that simple. Your personal axe to grind to keep trying over and over to dissect me and unveil some sort of major philosophical hypocrisy just isn’t going to work, dude….
__________________
Stop being scared of catching a cold
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3204  
Old Posted Jan 21, 2022, 10:01 PM
sentinel's Avatar
sentinel sentinel is offline
Plenary pleasures.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,764
One of you provides cogent, logical reasoning in your opinion, based on reality. The other just says "Nope, you're wrong, I'M right. Ha!"

Rauner tried to force the state of Illinois into bankruptcy FOR NO REAL REASON. Pritzker is actually paying down the state's backlog of bills, cleaning up the messes of many former politicians. Regardless of whomever the GOP candidate is in the IL gov race, and barring some miraculous GOP candidate who has an ACTUAL plan to fix a lot of the state's outstanding issues, I think I'm sticking with Pritzker, but that's just me..
__________________
Don't be shy. Step into the light.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3205  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2022, 12:35 AM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
SUSPENDED
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 21,375
^

That’s like your opinion dude

No surprise that the guy who is a blatant Democrat provides “cogent, logical reasoning” to another partisan.

This is getting old, my friends. And getting us nowhere.

The Democrat machine fucked this State royally and you keep voting for them, reaching endlessly for a new reason. It’s all good, but you have me convinced of literally nothing except that you are brainwashed for life.

I leave you again with this. NONE of this has changed in the 7 and 1/2 years since this post was made:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
donkeys and elephants both make stinky farts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
like really, really stinky farts.
__________________
Stop being scared of catching a cold

Last edited by Steely Dan; Jan 22, 2022 at 12:48 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3206  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2022, 12:43 AM
sentinel's Avatar
sentinel sentinel is offline
Plenary pleasures.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,764
Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^

That’s like your opinion dude

No surprise that the guy who is a blatant Democrat provides “cogent, logical reasoning” to another partisan.

This is getting old, my friends. And getting us nowhere.

The Democrat machine fucked this State royally and you keep voting for them, reaching endlessly for a new reason. It’s all good, but you have me convinced of literally nothing except that you are brainwashed for life.

I leave you again with this. NONE of this has changed in the 7 and 1/2 years since this post was made:
Hey, no one said Democrats are perfect, far fucking from it. But state Republicans have no platform, other than reducing taxes...which begs the question, how will things get funded then? Any idea? You seem to think that the 'other side' you so cherish has answers, what are they? What did Rauner propose that was so radically better than what Democrats offer?

Do I believe that a two-party system is severely flawed? Absolutely!! But no one is offering a viable solution, so then, what do??
__________________
Don't be shy. Step into the light.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3207  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2022, 12:46 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
SUSPENDED
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 21,375
^ Before you move forward in a new direction, you have to hit the brakes.

The Springfield legislature is so one sided that they will never let a Republican Governor do anything. That is the problem, and you will just keep denying that that is effectively the real reason why a Republican Governor will not achieve anything. Not because they don’t have ideas. Of course they have a vision, but that vision is DOA with a completely one party/machine dominated legislature.

So that is where we are. This discussion is meaningless because you guys pretend that there is Democracy in Illinois but there isn’t. There is one party rule, and this nonsense that the minority party has no “ideas” is a blatant falsehood.

To be honest, why the fuck do you guys even bother to vote? Why don’t we just declare this State a kingdom and put in place a benevolent monarch of your choosing and get it over with? It would be much easier and more honest than voting for the same fucktards over and over and then expecting something to change.
__________________
Stop being scared of catching a cold
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3208  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2022, 2:21 PM
moorhosj1 moorhosj1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
To be honest, why the fuck do you guys even bother to vote? Why don’t we just declare this State a kingdom and put in place a benevolent monarch of your choosing and get it over with? It would be much easier and more honest than voting for the same fucktards over and over and then expecting something to change.
Multiple people in this thread have explained the times they voted for either party. Who was the last Dem you voted for in a statewide election? Maybe don’t call others “partisan” while you openly refuse to vote for the other party.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3209  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2022, 3:01 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
SUSPENDED
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 21,375
I voted for Dems several times before but we need to keep the discussion local and not talk about national politics.

I didn’t vote for Pritzker but I have voted for Hillary and Obama. I have only lived in Illinois since 2013 so I have not had a chance to vote in too many elections.

Anyhow, on a local level I am 100% opposed to the Illinois political machine. I pretty much see no virtue in them whatsoever. Sorry, just where I stand
__________________
Stop being scared of catching a cold
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3210  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2022, 1:46 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
SUSPENDED
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 21,375
The evil and suburban Tribune editorial board with another editorial, this time about the push to elect new CTU leaders:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/opini...2cq-story.html

Worth a read, IMO
__________________
Stop being scared of catching a cold
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3211  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2022, 2:37 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
^ Before you move forward in a new direction, you have to hit the brakes.

The Springfield legislature is so one sided that they will never let a Republican Governor do anything. That is the problem, and you will just keep denying that that is effectively the real reason why a Republican Governor will not achieve anything. Not because they don’t have ideas. Of course they have a vision, but that vision is DOA with a completely one party/machine dominated legislature.

So that is where we are. This discussion is meaningless because you guys pretend that there is Democracy in Illinois but there isn’t. There is one party rule, and this nonsense that the minority party has no “ideas” is a blatant falsehood.

To be honest, why the fuck do you guys even bother to vote? Why don’t we just declare this State a kingdom and put in place a benevolent monarch of your choosing and get it over with? It would be much easier and more honest than voting for the same fucktards over and over and then expecting something to change.
Even when the same party controls both the executive and the legislature there is negotiation involved. East coast Republican governors, who are popular mind you, do so extensively with their quite powerful Dem legislatures. To pretend there is no model for this just because Rauner was an incompetent a-hole doesn't match reality. Illinois is not Indiana and you can't govern like it is if you happen to win the governorship.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3212  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2022, 7:48 PM
MayorOfChicago's Avatar
MayorOfChicago MayorOfChicago is offline
You had me at herro...
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Lakeview, Chicago
Posts: 2,180
I would have supported the amendment for progressive taxes but I hate how they screamed that TAXES WILL GO DOWN FOR 97% of people. I'm an accountant. The first $10,000 of income would be taxes at 0.20% lower rate than the current rate and then 0.05% lower from $10,000 to $100,000 and then rates would get higher.

So. That 97% of people had a chance to save a yearly maximum of $65 under this plan. It was literally written just to be able to say "your taxes went down".

You want to be fair? Fine, do 1% for the first $10k. 2% up to $40K 3% up to $75K, 4% up to $100K and then 5% up to $250k, 6% up to $500K and 7% above $500k.

something that mattered.

Also, I refused to vote for that amendment because if we pass that one then I wanted the amendment to be able to re-examine pensions to have been put to a vote. They refused to even put that one to a vote.

The current pensions as they were passed 15, 20, 30 years ago are a mess and totally jacked up. People shouldn't be working at $65K salaries and then retire and suddenly make $80K that goes up up up every year. Just can't afford that. I'm not saying gut the pensions, but bring things back down to earth and make them in line with how most other states run their pensions. Illinois just gave everyone anything they wanted in pensions for decades to save a few dollars up front in bonuses or raises. It totally sucks if you arent getting what you were promised, but having studied this a lot the state literally *CANNOT* pay all these pensions. It just can't work. People will leave before they ever squeeze enough money out to pay them, and for everyone that leaves the rest have to be squeezed that much more. Eventually it would just default. Save it before that time.
__________________
So I was out biking with Jesus last week...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3213  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2022, 9:40 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
SUSPENDED
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 21,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by MayorOfChicago View Post
The current pensions as they were passed 15, 20, 30 years ago are a mess and totally jacked up. People shouldn't be working at $65K salaries and then retire and suddenly make $80K that goes up up up every year. Just can't afford that. I'm not saying gut the pensions, but bring things back down to earth and make them in line with how most other states run their pensions. Illinois just gave everyone anything they wanted in pensions for decades to save a few dollars up front in bonuses or raises. It totally sucks if you arent getting what you were promised, but having studied this a lot the state literally *CANNOT* pay all these pensions. It just can't work. People will leave before they ever squeeze enough money out to pay them, and for everyone that leaves the rest have to be squeezed that much more. Eventually it would just default. Save it before that time.
^ In other words, Illinois' public pensions are just a huge Ponzi scheme?
__________________
Stop being scared of catching a cold
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3214  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2022, 1:33 PM
jtown,man jtown,man is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,101
Why does Illinois have one of the highest property taxes in the country, one of the highest sales tax in the country (Chicago), and a mid-level income tax?

Are residents of Illinois *THAT* much better off than say Floridians?


I highly doubt it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3215  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2022, 2:12 PM
Handro Handro is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,159
Local expenditures are high and the burden shared by the state is among the lowest in the nation. Also, pensions.

Try to get downstate republicans to vote for Springfield to shoulder more of the costs in Chicago, and try to get Chicago unions to cut some slack on pensions.

You can see why things haven’t changed.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3216  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2022, 2:57 PM
sentinel's Avatar
sentinel sentinel is offline
Plenary pleasures.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Handro View Post
Local expenditures are high and the burden shared by the state is among the lowest in the nation. Also, pensions.

Try to get downstate republicans to vote for Springfield to shoulder more of the costs in Chicago, and try to get Chicago unions to cut some slack on pensions.

You can see why things haven’t changed.
All Chicago, municipal and state pensions need to be privatized. periodt. The Illinois state constitutional amendment from 1974 is a total scam baked into law, and I'm STILL shocked that it has not been aggressively challenged.
__________________
Don't be shy. Step into the light.

Last edited by sentinel; Feb 3, 2022 at 3:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3217  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2022, 3:09 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
SUSPENDED
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 21,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by sentinel View Post
All Chicago, municipal and state pensions need to be privatized. periodt. The Illinois state constitutional amendment from 1974 is a total scam baked into law, and I'm STILL shocked that it has not been aggressively challenged.


Hear hear.
__________________
Stop being scared of catching a cold
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3218  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2022, 3:25 PM
sentinel's Avatar
sentinel sentinel is offline
Plenary pleasures.
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,764
Does anyonemarothisu () know of any sort of chart that shows historic performance of private pensions vs public pensions, even as an aggregate/average? I may be wrong, but I would assume that private pension performance over a 20-30 year period is much higher than public pensions, but I honestly don't know.

Edit: I think I answered my own question..?



https://www.icapitalnetwork.com/insi...in-a-downturn/

Thanks, interwebs!
__________________
Don't be shy. Step into the light.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3219  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2022, 3:36 PM
OrdoSeclorum OrdoSeclorum is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
Why does Illinois have one of the highest property taxes in the country, one of the highest sales tax in the country (Chicago), and a mid-level income tax?

Are residents of Illinois *THAT* much better off than say Floridians?


I highly doubt it.


Interesting you should bring this up. This data from the Hamilton Project shows that Florida cities--a couple are highlighted in this chart--have the worst cost-of-living/income ratios in the country. Boston, D.C., San Francisco and MSP stand out as being the good, even though they are all very expensive. Not all of Illinois' tax dollars are spent well. But in the long run, taxes pay for the long-term investments that result in quality of life and prosperity. Kansas and Indiana have both done natural experiments in the last 16 years about cutting investments and taxes to a bare minimum and both of those states have lagged their neighbor's economic performance. You can't compete with Iowa and Ohio if your economic plan is just to put everyone to work in privatized prisons and crooked retirement homes.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3220  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2022, 5:43 PM
SIGSEGV's Avatar
SIGSEGV SIGSEGV is offline
He/his/him. >~<, QED!
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Loop, Chicago
Posts: 5,191
Florida is essentially subsidized by retirees who don't require schools and has quite low GDP per capita Looking at total tax burden by state, Illinois is #9 (https://wallethub.com/edu/states-wit...x-burden/20494) which is high but about commensurate with GDP per Capita (and really not very different from Iowa or Wisconsin).

That's not to say the tax burden can't be a bit lower. A well-run state like Massachusetts should probably be more.of a benchmark.
__________________
And here the air that I breathe isn't dead.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Midwest
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:22 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.