The Unmasking Thread

[O-tacular]

I’m not sure if this title is descriptive enough but can’t think of a better term. Has anyone else seen a side to people that they know who normally seemed reasonable that is batshit crazy or evil since the start of the pandemic? Off the top of my head I can think of at least half a dozen people that I know irl, some friends some family, who have revealed themselves to be the polar opposite of who I thought they were. I’m talking full blown narcissist/ sociopaths.

The election of Donald Trump began revealing this side of people but this pandemic has fully ripped off the mask. Pun fully intended. It’s not even political, as some of these people are left wing or used to be more centrist / liberal.

Just wondering if others are having similar experiences? Obviously there is a line right now between those who hate being told what to do and distrust science, the government and common sense vs. Everyone else who just wants to make it through this pandemic and is willing to pull together to get it done.

[Architype]

My first instinct is to blame this on the extreme polarization the pandemic has caused, especially in the US, but in Canada it seems we have had reasonable voices on every side of the political spectrum in regard to Covid and it's consequences. I've known some people, but no close friends or relatives, who fit this description.

[dreambrother808]

Yes, I’ve unfriended a few people online and had to deal with one uncomfortable conversation at work with someone I previously considered to be quite lovely. Each situation dealt with either espousing that the pandemic is a hoax or that vaccines are a conspiracy. It’s sad and shocking but what can you do.

Funnily, no one posts or brings up the anti-woke, anti-BLM stuff you find here. At work at least, the company culture clearly indicates that that wouldn’t be welcome though.

[vid]

My 79 year old grandmother refuses to get vaccinated because my neo-nazi uncle has convinced her it's a mind-control conspiracy.

Last week a store I went to showed customers a photo of a man who was using swimming goggles as a face mask.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by vid

My 79 year old grandmother refuses to get vaccinated because my neo-nazi uncle has convinced her it's a mind-control conspiracy.

Last week a store I went to showed customers a photo of a man who was using swimming goggles as a face mask.

Based on what I know of your uncle I’m not surprised. Sorry to hear that.

Anyone else who surprised you? I didn’t count people like my cousin or uncles whom you’ve had the pleasure of arguing with on social media because they were a given.

[vid]

Honestly, no. Of the customers at my work, the ones who decided it was bullshit were the same ones that were annoying entitled assholes anyway and I'm glad they're gone. A few of the asshole customers are actually much better to deal with now because they do take things seriously. Being 100% curbside service helps. Karen isn't as eager to stand around waiting for a manager to yell at when she's standing outside in -20° weather talking through an intercom. (We actually have a customer named Karen and she's always been very polite and patient.)

One person who served on a board with me until last April insisted up until March 9th 2020 (when we had our last in-person meeting before the pandemic) that the pandemic would be "nothing". Haven't heard from her since. She was 72 or 73? I was a bit surprised at how casually she dismissed it considering her poor health. That's over a year ago now.

Again in the opposite direction, I've found that homeless people and drug users on the streets in my neighbourhood are more likely to wear masks than people in the suburbs. Probably because they're given masks for free. (They all caught covid in February and are being systematically vaccinated so they're not wearing them as much now.) I was joking that the further you got from my neighbourhood, the less seriously people were taking the pandemic.

Actually, the biggest surprise would be my mom's estranged 94 year old dad. He had himself euthanized in January. He was very social before the pandemic but with his girlfriends long since passed away and all social functions cancelled, he gave up on life. I barely knew him. He was posting alt-right memes on Facebook up until the week he died. The last time I met him early in the last decade, he was angrily disowning a couple of my aunts. My family is great. Most people I know have even worse ones though, which is pretty day. I blame the lead tap water.

[MonkeyRonin]

Everyone's reacted pretty much as I'd have expected them to. Anti-vaxxers have become anti-maskers, loony conspiracy theorists are now just COVID conspiracy theorists, sanctimonious busybodies are still sanctimonious busybodies, skeptics are still skeptics, the laissez-faire are still laissez-faire, policy wonks are still policy wonks, and so on.

No one's really done a 180 here. The only thing that's changed is that some of the personality types that previously would have held views that you deemed to be acceptable are no longer so accepted (eg. questioning the wisdom of governmental policy is a lot more socially taboo now than it was in February 2020). That, and some of the assholes are generally just a little more visible now.

[Peggerino]

I feel really lucky that all of my family and friends have been relatively level-headed through this. There's people I know who are anti-vaxxers, but I already knew pre-pandemic they were wackos and I was never too close with any of them. If anything, a few people are maybe a little too paranoid in my opinion, e.g. barely leaving the house/apartment and getting everything delivered.

[Migs]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

I’m not sure if this title is descriptive enough but can’t think of a better term. Has anyone else seen a side to people that they know who normally seemed reasonable that is batshit crazy or evil since the start of the pandemic? Off the top of my head I can think of at least half a dozen people that I know irl, some friends some family, who have revealed themselves to be the polar opposite of who I thought they were. I’m talking full blown narcissist/ sociopaths.

The election of Donald Trump began revealing this side of people but this pandemic has fully ripped off the mask. Pun fully intended. It’s not even political, as some of these people are left wing or used to be more centrist / liberal.

Just wondering if others are having similar experiences? Obviously there is a line right now between those who hate being told what to do and distrust science, the government and common sense vs. Everyone else who just wants to make it through this pandemic and is willing to pull together to get it done.

I think this is referred to as intolerance.

[Nashe]

No surprises in my circle, really. Everyone is pretty dutifully following official recommendations. I still don't actually KNOW anyone who's contacted COVID, but it's incidence level is pretty low where I live and people are quarantined rather quickly. I've run into a few people in stores (once in an elevator) that purposefully weren't wearing masks (the latter told me so, before being prompted, strangely enough) but I just replied with my usual* and kept my distance (it was a big elevator and I didn't notice before I got in with them). I suspect some with those opinions are used to being confronted on a regular basis so sometimes get needlessly pre-emptive.

* I respect their right to feel the way they do as long as they respect mine. In these cases, when presented with people who seem to feel the need to justify their position without me really feeling the desire to engage them, I usually just respond with "That's interesting." and let it go.

[Innsertnamehere]

It’s probably been a bit different in the Maritimes as the spread has been so low.

The one thing I have seen is a surprisingly higher vaccine hesitancy. Most people I know still want a vaccine, but are concerned about unknown effects or want to wait to get the “best one”. And the percentage of people who have expressed this to me vs just going and getting one as soon as they are eligible has been surprisingly high.

Otherwise people have behaved more or less how I expected them too. Certain types have been stricter with lockdown than others, but that follows their personalities pretty closely so I’m not surprised by the ones that follow it to the letter and the ones that essentially ignore it. Luckily I haven’t met any true “anti maskers” - just some people that continue to socialize in significant numbers.

[SignalHillHiker]

I haven’t had any loved ones prove to be assholes but there has been some discomfort. My mother initially wanted to wait to get the vaccine to see if it turns out to be safe. She’s fine now getting whatever is offered as soon as she can. She’s sick of the restrictions, not so much as a result of any hardship here because we’ve only had a couple brief lockdowns, but because she can’t travel, which is her main joy in life. So she’s getting very impatient and judgmental about things such as vaccine rollout, COVID deniers, governments elsewhere dragging it out. Timely post in my FB memories for today...

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The one thing I have seen is a surprisingly higher vaccine hesitancy. Most people I know still want a vaccine, but are concerned about unknown effects or want to wait to get the “best one”.

A lot of people just don't understand risk. You are much better off 99.99% of the time getting the vaccine (even AstroZenica) than not.

A good example in my field is paranoia over medical radiation exposure. I don't mean to minimize radiation exposure in any manner or form because you have to give ionizing radiation a healthy modicum of respect, but, properly employed, the only real risk with medical radiation is to those who are exposed on a daily basis in the workplace, and we wear protective gear, and only stomp on the fluoro peddle when we really need to.

It is a truism that every time you have a CT scan, that you increase your lifetime risk of getting a radiation induced malignancy, probably on the order of 1/1000. This sounds frightening when you explain it to the patient, but there is usually a 20 year latency between exposure and development of malignancy, and if you are already 65 years old when you have your CT scan, there is a 50/50 chance you will die of something else before the latent period kicks in, and even then the increased risk is only 1/1,000.

Also, I like to tell patients that their cumulative lifetime risk of getting cancer, just by virtue of being alive, is about 33%. If you get the CT scan, then that risk increases to 33.1%. Even if you get 10 CT scans, your cumulative cancer risk just increases to 34% from 33%. This usually puts things into perspective for the patient.

Risk is risk. You take a risk just by crossing the road.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

A lot of people just don't understand risk. You are much better off 99.99% of the time getting the vaccine (even AstroZenica) than not.

A good example in my field is paranoia over medical radiation exposure. I don't mean to minimize radiation exposure in any manner or form because you have to give ionizing radiation a healthy modicum of respect, but, properly employed, the only real risk with medical radiation is to those who are exposed on a daily basis in the workplace, and we wear protective gear, and only stomp on the fluoro peddle when we really need to.

It is a truism that every time you have a CT scan, that you increase your lifetime risk of getting a radiation induced malignancy, probably on the order of 1/1000. This sounds frightening when you explain it to the patient, but there is usually a 20 year latency between exposure and development of malignancy, and if you are already 65 years old when you have your CT scan, there is a 50/50 chance you will die of something else before the latent period kicks in, and even then the increased risk is only 1/1,000.

Also, I like to tell patients that their cumulative lifetime risk of getting cancer, just by virtue of being alive, is about 33%. If you get the CT scan, then that risk increases to 33.1%. Even if you get 10 CT scans, your cumulative cancer risk just increases to 34% from 33%. This usually puts things into perspective for the patient.

Risk is risk. You take a risk just by crossing the road.

Heck, you take a risk by getting out of bed in the morning.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Heck, you take a risk by getting out of bed in the morning.

There's a risk to staying in bed too (DVT, pulmonary embolism, pressure sores etc.)

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Heck, you take a risk by getting out of bed in the morning.

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

There's a risk to staying in bed too (DVT, pulmonary embolism, pressure sores etc.)

And that's the crux of it all. Measuring risks against each other is what we do all day, every day, whether we think about it or not. Some of us are good at making the conscious comparisons, some not so much. Some of us consider others in the equation to a greater or lesser degree, some not so much.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

There's a risk to staying in bed too (DVT, pulmonary embolism, pressure sores etc.)

Geez, something else to worry about ....

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Funnily, no one posts or brings up the anti-woke, anti-BLM stuff you find here. At work at least, the company culture clearly indicates that that wouldn’t be welcome though.

It's likely there and discussed among people who are of a similar frame of mind, but they're understandably extremely careful about who they bring it up with and obviously would never write anything about it in an email.

You're probably just not part of their (assumed) in-group.

[Acajack]

Regarding the anti-masker and conspirationniste crowd, social and traditional media give the impression that they're all over the place (and I know they're there - they've held large protests) but I can't say that I see them around me.

I don't have anyone at all in my widest possible entourage who is expressing those views. Though yes there is a considerable amount of fatigue and people are clearly running out of patience though it seems they're still willing to comply until it's over.

I also haven't really seen strangers acting up in public in a very long time. Since last summer in fact and in that single case it was just a guy trying to get out of wearing a mask due to asthma. The guard didn't back down and the dude didn't really insist much.

I do see people wearing a mask below their nose but I think that's more negligence or laziness than resistance or activism. Inevitably someone says "hey! your mask!" and they react with a "oh yeah, right!" and pull it back up.

[kool maudit]

From afar, it seems as though every major Canadian publication, television network, government official, public body, corporation and association of any standing is unanimous on the need to wear masks, maintain social distancing, vaccinate as soon as possible and the whole bit.

And yet I still hear this concern about the deniers, the anti-maskers, the assholes.

You all know that operations of this scale will not enjoy 100% compliance, right? I mean... relax. The institutions are fully on-side. This is what winning looks like!