Should the CoV bury its downtown utilities underground?

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

They're all being removed except for a few in Gastown/Chinatown.

Just downtown or the entire city?

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by christmas

It deceives you into thinking that you are walking in a 3rd world ghetto.

Not quite the same effect...

IMG_2253 by dreambrother808, on Flickr

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

On that basis, keeping them in a few select alleys in the DTES and such is OK, but downtown, the alleys should be crispened up to look smart, IMO, even if they are still just functional alleys.

This has come up multiple times over the years and discussed.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

Just downtown or the entire city?

Downtown.

The H-Frame removal project will see BC Hydro remove over 350 H-Frame wooden poles, overhead wires and electrical equipment from Downtown Vancouver. The H-Frames will be replaced with underground services in easy-access vaults, improving visual aesthetics, accessibility and traffic flow in alleyways. The project also aims to modernize building connections to the grid, standardize distribution voltage and improve the reliability of BC Hydro’s distribution system.

http://ramengineering.ca/portfolio/d...rame-removals/

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

They are burying them and they are keeping them in certain alleys because the film crews like them.

Right, because then the Hollywood film crews get to utilize a "dirty back alley" setting while staying in the West Coast, instead of wasting a flight ticket to shoot on-location in New York, etc.

Same reason why they shot that crap Megan Fox horror movie at the old U-Hill Secondary building (RIP) - the school looks sufficiently redneck.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by christmas

ugh.. if we want beautiful, lively alleys with cafe's lining them up, like those we aspire to have as our own, in Melbourne and Victoria, we need to bury our utilities underground.

I'm guessing you've never been to Melbourne? Fairly clear since Melbourne has just as many un-lively back alleys filled with garbage and recycling cans, solid cement walls, and not a cafe in sight. There are also quite a few "back alleys" that have walled gates across so you don't really see them like you do in Vancouver but they are then (1) not passable and (2) again not filled with lively cafes.

As for Victoria... last I checked it was 87% smaller than Vancouver so a tad easier to accomplish things when you have 13% of the streets in your downtown... and your buildings are 10% the height and require 10% the garbage/loading facilities. I mean downtown Cache Creek doesn't have back alleys like downtown Vancouver so they must be doing something right.

I don't disagree with getting utilities underground for the simple fact that other than Earthquakes, you reduce greatly the affect of things like wind storms or people with chainsaws taking out your utilities like they do out here in Surrey. It does also look nicer, but how nice again is a back alley with garbage cans, 42 types of recycling bins since Vancouver is too cheap to sort your recycling for you, and maggot/rat infested compost bins?

And the movie industry has already been mentioned above so I won't mention them though I just did. *shrug*

[christmas]

Originally Posted by jhausner

I'm guessing you've never been to Melbourne? Fairly clear since Melbourne has just as many un-lively back alleys filled with garbage and recycling cans, solid cement walls, and not a cafe in sight. There are also quite a few "back alleys" that have walled gates across so you don't really see them like you do in Vancouver but they are then (1) not passable and (2) again not filled with lively cafes.

As for Victoria... last I checked it was 87% smaller than Vancouver so a tad easier to accomplish things when you have 13% of the streets in your downtown... and your buildings are 10% the height and require 10% the garbage/loading facilities. I mean downtown Cache Creek doesn't have back alleys like downtown Vancouver so they must be doing something right.

I don't disagree with getting utilities underground for the simple fact that other than Earthquakes, you reduce greatly the affect of things like wind storms or people with chainsaws taking out your utilities like they do out here in Surrey. It does also look nicer, but how nice again is a back alley with garbage cans, 42 types of recycling bins since Vancouver is too cheap to sort your recycling for you, and maggot/rat infested compost bins?

And the movie industry has already been mentioned above so I won't mention them though I just did. *shrug*

I get your point and agree with most of them. But I think it's clear that Melbourne is way ahead of us in terms of lively alleys, of which are much apparent in the Google search results without getting into detail of tourist attractions. I think you get my point

I've been to both Vic and Melbourne btw but I may be biased cause I only visited the ones that my tour company took me to.

Google search results :

Vancouver alleys :

https://www.google.ca/search?q=vanco...SlD2QQ_AUIBigB


VS

Melbourne Alleys :

https://www.google.ca/search?q=vanco...lbourne+alleys

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by christmas

Vancouver alleys :

https://www.google.ca/search?q=vanco...SlD2QQ_AUIBigB


VS

Melbourne Alleys :

https://www.google.ca/search?q=vanco...lbourne+alleys

I'm guessing that's an alley cat?

[trofirhen]

Looking at the above alleys in Melbourne, I realize that a similar treatment of Vancouver's laneways may not be possible.
However, are there any alleys in downtown that could be be redone similarly?

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Same reason why they shot that crap Megan Fox horror movie at the old U-Hill Secondary building (RIP) - the school looks sufficiently redneck.

Hey! I went there. It was an awesome school (small, surrounded by forest, teachers gave a damn, etc.) and it is (or at least was) routinely the top public school in the province for academic performance and right up there with the top private schools.

Back on topic, how on Earth has nobody mentioned yet that the electrical distribution system - from the hated downtown H-frames to the residential utility poles - is BC Hydro's property and responsibility, and not the City of Vancouver?!

[christmas]

Anyone know where this is?

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by christmas

Anyone know where this is?

That's victory square at the end.

[christmas]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

That's victory square at the end.

Thanks!

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by christmas

Thanks!

All good. I gotta ask as i have never been to Australia, whats their homeless situation like in Melbourne etc? Do they have as many people using the alley as a toilet like Vancouver?

An alley in Vancouver i would love to see revitalized is the one between Main and Quebec, in the Broadway area. I am always disgusted at how rich the stench from the alley behind the Lee building is. If i lived in that building i would be standing on that fire escape; dumping buckets of water on the people who use my building as a toilet. They should at least put bright sensor activated lights whenever someone goes down there as a deterrent.

[christmas]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

All good. I gotta ask as I have never been to Australia, what's their homeless situation like in Melbourne etc? Do they have as many people using the alley as a toilet like Vancouver?

An alley in Vancouver I would love to see revitalised is the one between Main and Quebec, in the Broadway area. I am always disgusted at how rich the stench from the alley behind the Lee building is. If i lived in that building i would be standing on that fire escape; dumping buckets of water on the people who use my building as a toilet. They should at least put bright sensor activated lights whenever someone goes down there as a deterrent.

Sorry for the extremely late reply. I did not see your post.
My viewpoint is biased because I was part of a larger tour group that spent ~3days in Melbourne. We only toured the good/famous ones, and if that's representative of all of Melbourne's alleys then they are doing a much better job than what we're doing. There was nothing dingy about the alleys. They were all animated with restaurants/gift shops/cafes etc. Think of Japan/South Korea's small alleys with flashy restaurants + Victoria's European corridors alleys and you get Melbourne ones.
The first step we should take is to bury the utility poles. And honestly, I don't get why there are trolley buses in Vancouver... Like I get why Toronto would have them - because they actually resemble their historical ones but what we have are modern buses. I find it quite random.

On that note, here are some recent articles that are suited for this thread.

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-n...walk-expansion
http://www.nsnews.com/opinion/letter...urse-1.4783318

[jollyburger]

All those alleys in Japan and Korea are filled with utility poles and wires.

[Spr0ckets]

It's worth noting that most cities around the world that bury their utility poles tend to do so out of necessity rather than for the purpose of beautification or getting rid of ugly poles, cables and alleyways.

And this is because of the considerable cost involved in doing so.

The necessity in most cases is mitigating the costs involved from felled power lines during snow and ice storms, primarily, as well as wind and rain storms along with earthquakes (to a lesser extent, particularly if you're not in an earthquake-prone zone, and sometimes not even then - See : Japan).

Most of Western Europe buried theirs after World War 2 as they were rebuilding from the war and as such, the cost was built into the overall costs of reconstruction.
Large cities in the US (especially the North East corridor) usually have this debate every couple of years or so - especially when they have severe snow or winter storms that knock out power - and then immediately forget about it or shelve it once someone mentions the cost involved and the taxes (and tax increase) it would take to do so.
It's much harder (and costlier) to do in older cities or cities with deeper roots and bones than it is in emergent newer cities (you can decide for yourself where Vancouver falls in that spectrum) and while Earthquakes are a reasonable justification for doing so, they are obviously far more infrequent (even in an Earthquake prone zone like Vancouver) than snow storms and ice storms. And as such the cost might not be as easily justifiable as in those other cases where you're typically bleeding money every other year digging out people and property buried in snow without heat or power and putting back up power lines.

As with everything it all comes down to money and how much of it people are willing to fork out or sacrifice (or how much you're losing by not doing anything).

It goes without saying that it's easier to justify the cost to do so (and pay for it) for the Downtown area and the CBD, than it is for the Greater Van area and the surburbs.

It's not easy convincing people to fork out more in property rates or higher utility bills - depending on who actually pays for it - just to (primarily) beautify their city, IMO.
Part of it, of course, may also come down to how much it costs BC Hydro to maintain them as is, versus how much they would save (relative to the cost of actually burying them)