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  #21  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2020, 4:14 PM
mleblanc mleblanc is offline
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Yes, I agree and am wondering why this has to be a blank wall. I’m thinking there is some building code which requires this when a building backs onto a lot that could have future development (for fire code, etc.). It seems to me that this was the case with The Dillon (and they chose to put red cladding on the blank wall for some reason).

Perhaps there could be a mural in the plan, as they are showing one on the south facing wall on Barrington in the renderings.

On the topic of murals, this project will cover up the “interesting” one on the side of the Freak Lunchbox for future generations to see when this building is demoed some day. I wonder what people will think when they see it?
I wonder who owns the buildings? It seems like it would make a great "epsace" type reno eventually, with a modern addition above.

Funny enough, the freak lunchbox mural was one of the first things I thought about when I saw this project. No doubt there will be some backlash.
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  #22  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2020, 4:33 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
I think I would call you a realist rather than a pessimist. What you described is usually how it works out.
That happened in the 90's with the old proposal for this site and there was even the never-finished airport hotel. However, there don't seem to be many developments like this now. I think it's remarkable how many developments get built compared to what's proposed, even though it can sometimes take 5-10 years.

The worst example right now is probably Skye. I think they bought that site around 2004. But the TexPark was already demolished and it was no architectural loss.
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  #23  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2020, 4:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mleblanc View Post
I wonder who owns the buildings? It seems like it would make a great "epsace" type reno eventually, with a modern addition above.

Funny enough, the freak lunchbox mural was one of the first things I thought about when I saw this project. No doubt there will be some backlash.
There better not be a backlash. If there is I may finally just have to pack up and move because I'll know the populace has finally flipped.

I mean, the whole point of needing a mural was to gussy up an otherwise ugly, barren vacant lot in one of the city's busiest areas. Wanting to keep it vacant for the sake of the mural would be like a kid not wanting a long festering, painful cut to finally heal because they'd miss their pretty bumble-bee band-aid.
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  #24  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2020, 6:26 PM
mleblanc mleblanc is offline
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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
There better not be a backlash. If there is I may finally just have to pack up and move because I'll know the populace has finally flipped.

I mean, the whole point of needing a mural was to gussy up an otherwise ugly, barren vacant lot in one of the city's busiest areas. Wanting to keep it vacant for the sake of the mural would be like a kid not wanting a long festering, painful cut to finally heal because they'd miss their pretty bumble-bee band-aid.
No doubt. I'm beyond happy with seeing this get built in what should very well be a prominent corner. Couldn't care less about the mural despite thinking it's a beautiful addition to the city. I've even seen it on the front page of Reddit a few times, people seem to love it. And people also love to go up in arms about every development this city has seen, so put the two together, and we should see at least a few failed "save the octopus on acid mural" petitions
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  #25  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2020, 11:45 PM
IanWatson IanWatson is offline
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
I’m thinking there is some building code which requires this when a building backs onto a lot that could have future development (for fire code, etc.).
Yes, it's a code issue. The amount of glazing you can have goes down the closer you get to a property line. Build right up to the property line and you end up with completely blank walls. From a practical perspective, it also wouldn't make much sense to base your floor plan around the assumption of windows, only to have them covered up in the future.

I'm really liking this one. It blends in well. It's understated and classy in a way that suits the government heritage of this area. And the fact that they're keeping the upper levels of the Dennis is wonderful (though what it says about our city that it was a question at all...).

With Cunard and The Governor starting this year, and Skye coming soon, downtown is pretty much there!
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  #26  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2020, 11:45 AM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Thanks for the clarification regarding code!
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  #27  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2020, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Perhaps there could be a mural in the plan, as they are showing one on the south facing wall on Barrington in the renderings.

On the topic of murals, this project will cover up the “interesting” one on the side of the Freak Lunchbox for future generations to see when this building is demoed some day. I wonder what people will think when they see it?
The existing mural may be loved by some but it is in the class of pictures on velvet of dogs playing poker. It replaced one that was even worse. None of these are exactly the Mona Lisa.

We have discussed murals here before but my opinion of the things has not changed. Their large scale and the frequency with which one sees them means they better be damn good, or otherwise they become an eyesore. Use with caution.
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  #28  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2020, 5:02 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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I haven't actually been a fan of the current mural, but others like it. There will always be that variance of tastes, of course, and from what I gather, I suspect that more people would prefer a mural to a blank wall, especially among younger people. Just my speculation, of course, no data.
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  #29  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2020, 1:03 AM
Patrick Matthews Patrick Matthews is offline
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
One thing I do like about it is that from the Barrington Street side it looks like they are trying to roughly mimic the landmark buildings that were torn down from that site years ago, specifically the Cragg building on the corner and the Birks building further in.



Source









https://halifaxbloggers.ca/builthali...ington-street/



Thanks for psoting these. What did I miss to see why these 4(?) buildings were lost in the first place? The one thing I like about the current area is seeing how the old buildings or roof lines impacted the Dennis walls, but now that I see these old buildings that doesnt line up well.

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6482...7i13312!8i6656
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  #30  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2020, 2:54 AM
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This old picture really shows where some of the changes in the area have been made. There has been a lot of new construction in the area..
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  #31  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2020, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
One thing I do like about it is that from the Barrington Street side it looks like they are trying to roughly mimic the landmark buildings that were torn down from that site years ago, specifically the Cragg building on the corner and the Birks building further in.
The Cragg Building seemed quite attractive when new and I think these architects could have done a better job of being inspired by its fenestration - the 3 sets of paired window openings on the north side, and then matching that look better on the Barrington side. The street level commercial space design might also have benefited from another look at these old photos.
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  #32  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2020, 2:03 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
The Cragg Building seemed quite attractive when new and I think these architects could have done a better job of being inspired by its fenestration - the 3 sets of paired window openings on the north side, and then matching that look better on the Barrington side. The street level commercial space design might also have benefited from another look at these old photos.
I agree with your thoughts. At this point I'm happy that there is a nod to their general massing, but would have preferred the new design being closer in concept to the Cragg Building, and thus being more attractive.

However, at least the massing gives hints as to what was there before, and is much better than a featureless glass cube that could have been in the design.

It will be interesting to see what the finished product looks like, whenever that will happen.
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  #33  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2020, 2:24 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Originally Posted by Patrick Matthews View Post
Thanks for psoting these. What did I miss to see why these 4(?) buildings were lost in the first place?
If you read through the linked site from which those old photos were posted, there is an explanation as to why they were torn down (retrospectively, an unfortunate case of poor planning and judgement, in my opinion).

https://halifaxbloggers.ca/builthali...ington-street/

Quote:
These Structures were all demolished in the early 1980’s to make way for a never constructed office tower.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Matthews View Post
The one thing I like about the current area is seeing how the old buildings or roof lines impacted the Dennis walls, but now that I see these old buildings that doesnt line up well.

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6482...7i13312!8i6656
Take a look at this postcard view (from the site linked above) and you will see between the Dennis Building and the Cragg Building (on the corner of George and Barrington), a smallish 3-storey building with 3 windows on each level, that abutted the Dennis Building and would have shared that stone wall imprint that you see today.



Also I want to give props to the blog author and SSP forum member Peter Ziobrowski for creating the excellent blog that I linked to. If you have a few moments (like many of us do in isolation these days), I recommend that you read through it. It is most interesting and informative, if you have a desire to learn about Halifax's built history.
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  #34  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2020, 5:39 PM
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I think it was more like late-80's or maybe even 1990. I am pretty sure I've seen pictures from 1989 with the sturctures still there. The economic crash was around 1990 or so while there was tons of construction the 80's. In early 1989 nobody could have predicted how much worse the economy would be in 1991.

However I think it was a mistake not to preserve all of those as heritage buildings. Had a heritage district been created along Barrington from George to Inglis in 1989, quite a few demolished buildings could have been saved.
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  #35  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2020, 4:15 AM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Here are a few more vintage photographs from the Halifax Municipal Archives.

The first one is labeled "Aquarium site planning photographs" but the year is mislabeled as 1966. I would guess by the cars visible that perhaps it should have been labeled as 1986. Clearly it shows the Cragg Bldg still in place. If anybody knows when the TD building to the left was built, it might happen to nail down the year of this photo a little better.



Context for above photo:
Quote:
File consists of photographs used to plan how the proposed Aquarium would affect the views down George St. and from the Harbour. Images show view from Citadel Hill and the Grand Parade down George St. to Cable Wharf, and views from the water up towards the Town Clock, Citadel Hill, Cunard buildings, the Wave sculpture, the industrial areas, smokestacks, and wharves
Another one from the municipal archives showing the buildings just to the right of the Cragg. Looks like it was taken from the old Moirs factory on Argyle, maybe from the 1930s?



Quote:
Grand Parade
[196-?]
Retrieval code: 102-39-1-390

File consists of two images of Grand Parade taken at different times. The first is an elevated view (taken from the roof of a building on the Argyle?) looking east, with Barrington on the left, Argyle on the right, and George's Island in the distance. The back of this print is stamped with "Photo by Nova Scotia Bureau of Information," and has a number of measurements written on it. The second image was taken in front of City Hall and shows St. Paul's Church as well as some of the buildings on Argyle St.
Here's one that confirms someone123's comment - you can see the Cragg Building on the left and the pic is labeled as being from 1989:



Quote:
Grand Parade
Jue. 1989
Retrieval code: CR40-23-11

Item consists of a photograph of people sitting under the flagpole and cars parked in Grand Parade, facing the Cenotaph and St. Paul's Church. A sign indicates the parking spot for Ward 5 Alderman.
This is a nice shot from 1956:


Quote:
Halifax - Near Waterfront
15 Apr. 1956
Retrieval code: CR25-24

Item consists of a photograph taken up George Street, towards trolley busses on Barrington Street and Grand Parade Square, with a view of the Old Town Clock.
Finally one from 1993, showing the Cragg Building now missing from the background.



Quote:
Raise the Flag Day Ceremonies 9
May 15, 1993
Retrieval code: 102-3-5-003.9

Item consists of a photograph of the 1993 Raise the Flag Day ceremony held at the Grand Parade. Dancer is possibly Priya Elango from the South India Cultural Association of the Maritimes
Case closed.
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  #36  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2020, 2:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Here are a few more vintage photographs from the Halifax Municipal Archives.

The first one is labeled "Aquarium site planning photographs" but the year is mislabeled as 1966. I would guess by the cars visible that perhaps it should have been labeled as 1986. Clearly it shows the Cragg Bldg still in place. If anybody knows when the TD building to the left was built, it might happen to nail down the year of this photo a little better.
Thanks for more great images as always, Mark.

According to the construction data company Emporis, construction of the TD Centre building was completed in 1974. Judging from those vehicles, I'd guess the photo is more likely from the 70s rather than the 80s but someone who is more of a car guy than I might be able to narrow it further. (I'm guessing that's the tail of a mid-to-late 70s Camaro parked in the Grand Parade.)
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  #37  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2020, 4:22 PM
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I'm stumped by 2 vehicles in that late '70s/early '80s pic. The car making a left off of Barrington on to George completely stumps me. The tail end of the car parked next to the Camaro in the Grand Parade also is a bit baffling. My first reaction was an early to mid '80s Honda Civic but I'm unsure. But in any event I found a magazine article from '83 that has this picture, along with another talking about a 1986 lawsuit involving Atlantic Trust.



I had forgotten about Atlantic Trust but seeing these later pics of that building made me remember them being on that corner. The article indicates they were involved in some shenanigans around loans and shares and the like. I believe they eventually got gobbled up by Central Trust before that house of cards all collapsed.

Interesting that the Atlantic Trust CEO was Joe Potter, brother of Dan Potter of KHI infamy. Both were also involved in the 1986 lawsuit. Must run in the family.
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  #38  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2020, 5:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
I'm stumped by 2 vehicles in that late '70s/early '80s pic. The car making a left off of Barrington on to George completely stumps me. The tail end of the car parked next to the Camaro in the Grand Parade also is a bit baffling. My first reaction was an early to mid '80s Honda Civic but I'm unsure.
I was also perplexed by that car, Keith. There's not much to go on. Like you, my first thought was an early-80s Civic -- my girlfriend at the time was the proud owner of a red one -- but I also speculated it could be a late-70s era AMC Pacer wagon.
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  #39  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2020, 9:17 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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Well, I'm somewhat up on my cars, but mostly pre-1970s, but from the pic here's what I see.
- in the parking lot to the right, a 1978-1981 generation Camaro, and possibly a 1984-1987 generation Civic hatch.
- turning left onto George Street appears to be a second generation Ford Tempo, which ranged from 1988 - 1994. I also thought it could be a Taurus, but it looks too stubby for a Taurus.

Not totally confident on the Tempo, but regardless here's what the Tempo would look like (general body shape):





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Tempo

Second gen Taurus (1992 - 1995):


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Taurus

The photo being discussed:


Also of interest, is this photo from the Halifax Municipal Archives, showing a tug of war dated 1974, showing an older building with the TD name on it. It's flipped around on the archives site, so I mirror imaged it and rehosted it on imgur.



https://gencat1.eloquent-systems.com/webcat/request/Action?ClientSession=-781d62fa:17139498f99:-7efa&UniqueID=6000_3355_3&TemplateProcessID=6000_3355&PromptID=&ParamID=&TemplateProcessID=6000_1051_1051&PromptID=&ParamID=&CMD_(DetailRequest)[0]=&ProcessID=6000_3363(0)&KeyValues=KEY_5012039

Quote:
Tug of War
1974
Retrieval code: 102-1-1-12

Item consists of photograph of Joseph Howe Festival Tug-of-War contest on Grand Parade.
So, some answers, and more questions...
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  #40  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2020, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Another one from the municipal archives showing the buildings just to the right of the Cragg. Looks like it was taken from the old Moirs factory on Argyle, maybe from the 1930s?

The Paramount sign is visible so it's after 1935.

Beyond that I can't really narrow it down. Most of the foreground buildings depicted are registered heritage properties so they were built well before 1935 and are still standing today.

Can anyone figure out what the sign is on the waterfront? Or the details on the smokestack on Sackville Street?
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