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  #21  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2019, 11:27 PM
Querce Querce is offline
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that's a very useful rendering
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  #22  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2020, 6:30 PM
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Can someone change the thread title on this? It is only 16 storeys now.

Council reviewed it last night for the first time. There are new documents available here: https://www.halifax.ca/business/plan...street-halifax

They show the tower to be a lot wider than I had first thought and it looks worse and worse to me. The applicants claim that the tower was informed from the design of Victoria Hall and therefore does not overpower it but I would beg to differ. I hope they are told to go back to the drawing board.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2020, 7:02 PM
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The tower is squat but I wonder if it really will overpower Victoria Hall in person. There is a big setback between Gottingen and the tower.

To me the biggest problem with Victoria Hall is that the building and the grounds are crumbling (maybe in part because they are a development site). If they were restored I think that would outweigh any drawback of having an average looking tower in behind.

I wonder how likely it is that they'd do a good job of restoring the cast iron and granite fence in front. That would do wonders for the look of the area. This proposal also has underground parking while the current lot is plagued with tons of ugly surface parking stuff in front and behind.

Halifax has so many Victorian-era sites that were originally green space surrounded by ornate stone and cast iron fences and have fallen into disrepair or been stripped away. Victoria Hall is one example, St. David another, and the dispensary building on Brunswick is another.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2020, 9:38 PM
ArchAficionado ArchAficionado is offline
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The tower is squat but I wonder if it really will overpower Victoria Hall in person. There is a big setback between Gottingen and the tower.

To me the biggest problem with Victoria Hall is that the building and the grounds are crumbling (maybe in part because they are a development site). If they were restored I think that would outweigh any drawback of having an average looking tower in behind.

I wonder how likely it is that they'd do a good job of restoring the cast iron and granite fence in front. That would do wonders for the look of the area. This proposal also has underground parking while the current lot is plagued with tons of ugly surface parking stuff in front and behind.

Halifax has so many Victorian-era sites that were originally green space surrounded by ornate stone and cast iron fences and have fallen into disrepair or been stripped away. Victoria Hall is one example, St. David another, and the dispensary building on Brunswick is another.
As per the heritage conservation plan, "replace or repair gottingen st. wall; wrought iron added to granite and brick wall to be reparged." (https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default...ion%20Plan.pdf)
Hopefully the development will see Vic hall tastefully restored as part of this development, even if the tower is nothing to write home about.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2020, 2:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ArchAficionado View Post
As per the heritage conservation plan, "replace or repair gottingen st. wall; wrought iron added to granite and brick wall to be reparged." (https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default...ion%20Plan.pdf)
Hopefully the development will see Vic hall tastefully restored as part of this development, even if the tower is nothing to write home about.
That's a good start - I'd like to see the parking reduced significantly in front (given that there's underground parking proposed) and more impactful gardens/plantings. The heritage building is nice, but it's not the best urban form with it's large setback and limited interaction with the street. It would be nice if HRM used the DA process to negotiate in some aspects that use that potential detriment as a positive.
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  #26  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2021, 4:48 PM
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The developers went back and revised this proposal to meet the heritage standards. It's now 13 floors / 40 metres and staff is recommending approval.

Case H00482 Staff Report
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  #27  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2021, 7:10 PM
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The developers went back and revised this proposal to meet the heritage standards. It's now 13 floors / 40 metres and staff is recommending approval.

Case H00482 Staff Report
Another typical Halifax development proposal: proponent comes up with a reasonable design, it gets declared "Too TALL!" and delayed for a long time, comes back as a sawed-off proposal with cheaper exterior materials and a less attractive design, passed.
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  #28  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2021, 7:13 PM
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I like it. I'm impressed with the care taken to build in context with the historic building.
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  #29  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2021, 8:03 PM
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Another typical Halifax development proposal: proponent comes up with a reasonable design, it gets declared "Too TALL!" and delayed for a long time, comes back as a sawed-off proposal with cheaper exterior materials and a less attractive design, passed.
Standard procedure.
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  #30  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2021, 8:34 PM
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Taking a quick glance I actually think the new design works better with Victoria Hall. I found there was a tension between the new and old in the previous proposal while the newer version helps the buildings to work together and complement each other.

That being said I think the smaller massing on the top 3 floors of the new design could have been extended back up to the same height as the original and it would have been just as successful.
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  #31  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2021, 8:36 PM
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That being said I think the smaller massing on the top 3 floors of the new design could have been extended back up to the same height as the original and it would have been just as successful.
There's a lot of focus on height when the problem is often bulkiness. A slender 40 storey tower can be nicer and fit in better with lowrise surroundings than a bulky 20 storey tower. Materials matter too. A glass curtain wall tower won't look as imposing as one clad in brown precast.
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  #32  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2021, 8:48 PM
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The revised rendering appears to show raw concrete precast panels used as exterior cladding. I hope they are not that.
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  #33  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2021, 9:03 PM
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The revised rendering appears to show raw concrete precast panels used as exterior cladding. I hope they are not that.
The majority of the grey façade facing Gottingen is described as cut stone, with the black sections (top 3 floors) being concrete.
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  #34  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2021, 9:32 PM
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
There's a lot of focus on height when the problem is often bulkiness. A slender 40 storey tower can be nicer and fit in better with lowrise surroundings than a bulky 20 storey tower. Materials matter too. A glass curtain wall tower won't look as imposing as one clad in brown precast.
Yes, I think this is a case where a glass facade would work well. A glass tower with a colour palette that fades into the sky as much as possible would actually be appropriate here, and I don't think it would really matter then if it were 15 storeys or 25.

I don't normally think new buildings have to automatically defer to old ones, but Victoria Hall is certainly the most impressive historic building in this vicinity, and should command some respect.
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  #35  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2021, 9:35 PM
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Yes, I think this is a case where a glass facade would work well. A glass tower with a colour palette that fades into the sky as much as possible would actually be appropriate here, and I don't think it would really matter then if it were 15 storeys or 25.

I don't normally think new buildings have to automatically defer to old ones, but Victoria Hall is certainly the most impressive historic building in this vicinity, and should command some respect.
I really noticed this with the Nova Centre and Jade, particularly compared to those terrible drawings produced by whatever group it was at the time that was against those buildings. They drew black and red rectangles, deliberately trying to make the buildings look imposing (plus they used a completely unnatural orthographic projection that does not match what anybody would see in person). It didn't surprise me that those representations were misleading but beyond that the buildings were much less imposing looking than I expected. Because they reflect light I am not even sure it's guaranteed that towers like that always darken the streetscapes around them. It depends on the particulars of the solar angles.

Glass towers go great with smaller masonry heritage buildings assuming reasonable setbacks and design. If you combine them with better preservation of the actual character-defining architecture they're a huge net win.
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  #36  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2021, 9:53 PM
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Epic failure in my view. Gone is the light and airy structure that reflected what is the beautiful Victoria Hall and replaced instead with a squat and obese dark mass threatening to roll over and squash its diminutive neighbour. A 'design' committee thinks that this is an improvement? In this instance the eye is drawn to the ugly, much like a car accident, and Victoria Hall become secondary. On the plus side for the heritage zealots, this modification will assist in their vision of an elite expensive peninsula containing as few homes as possible. If anything three floors should have been added to the structure. Oh!, but that might interfere with the table top appearance of the area. What? You mean there's a bigger picture? What a shame.
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  #37  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2021, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Good Baklava View Post
The majority of the grey façade facing Gottingen is described as cut stone, with the black sections (top 3 floors) being concrete.
"Cut stone, or similar". Could be concrete fake stone, or even concrete block.
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  #38  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2021, 3:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
"Cut stone, or similar". Could be concrete fake stone, or even concrete block.
The text on the document indicates cut stone masonry and doesn't include the "or similar" wording:

Quote:
The mid-rise tower is clad in dark high-density fiber cement and light
grey cut-stone masonry with dark windows. The location of materials is carefully thought out to minimize the presence of the new building
on Gottingen St as well as to break up the scale of the mid-rise building so that it relates well within its context. The interplay of color on the
Gottingen St facade is a quiet inversion derived from Victoria Hall which has a dark mansard roof with white windows. The new design picks
up on this but inverts the colors so as to silence the facade. The interaction between the dark windows and the light grey cut-stone further
helps to break up the facade thus giving the building a befitting scale to its surroundings.
That said, it's been noted that developers in Halifax will often 'cheap out' if the opportunity is there...
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  #39  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2021, 8:43 PM
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"Cut stone, or similar". Could be concrete fake stone, or even concrete block.
I will agree there’s the chance they revert to some cheap junk.
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  #40  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2021, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
The text on the document indicates cut stone masonry and doesn't include the "or similar" wording:

Ah-hmm...

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