HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces > Halifax > Halifax Peninsula & Downtown Dartmouth


    King's Wharf Lot I in the SkyscraperPage Database

Building Data Page   • Comparison Diagram   • Halifax Skyscraper Diagram

Map Location

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1661  
Old Posted May 10, 2020, 4:37 PM
Colin May Colin May is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by alps View Post
King's Landing was finished in 1984, while Admiralty Place was completed in 1987. Both buildings were designed around 1982 with the involvement of another firm, called "Cowle and Martin Associates", but I haven't been able to find more information on this company except that they were based in Toronto. Seems like both buildings were developed by Rampart Enterprises Ltd. I wonder what brought them to Dartmouth?
Admiralty Place was finished in 1986. The developer bought into the hype of the great wealth we were going to have from offshore oil and gas exploration and development induced by the federal/provincial governments; it really kicked off in 1979/80. And then high interest rates and inflation effectively wiped out the developer. I can remember the large misleading ads in the Herald with a drawing of a ferry gliding by the new building. We bought our house in May 1983 and the interest rate was 13.75%, a rate you will never see again in your lifetime.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1662  
Old Posted May 10, 2020, 5:04 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 8,405
Quote:
Originally Posted by alps View Post
King's Landing was finished in 1984, while Admiralty Place was completed in 1987. Both buildings were designed around 1982 with the involvement of another firm, called "Cowle and Martin Associates", but I haven't been able to find more information on this company except that they were based in Toronto. Seems like both buildings were developed by Rampart Enterprises Ltd. I wonder what brought them to Dartmouth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin May View Post
Admiralty Place was finished in 1986. The developer bought into the hype of the great wealth we were going to have from offshore oil and gas exploration and development induced by the federal/provincial governments; it really kicked off in 1979/80. And then high interest rates and inflation effectively wiped out the developer. I can remember the large misleading ads in the Herald with a drawing of a ferry gliding by the new building. We bought our house in May 1983 and the interest rate was 13.75%, a rate you will never see again in your lifetime.
Thanks both for the info. Puts it all in perspective.

I recall those interest rates, Colin, although it was from my parents paying them - I seem to recall they did go much higher - maybe 18%? - at some point. By the time I became a homeowner, thankfully they were much lower, in the 6% range, which would be considered quite high nowadays.

I am wondering to what extent these rates had to do with the stalling of development that happened in Halifax in the 1990s. We can all recall that until a few years ago, almost no development had happened in Halifax for a long time...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1663  
Old Posted May 10, 2020, 5:56 PM
Colin May Colin May is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,480
If mortgages were 6% today we would all be in trouble. Prior to 1983 the rate hit 22.5%.
About 1982/3 I began reading everything I could find about bonds and interest rates. Lee Iaccoca bailed out the Chrysler pension plan when it was underfunded and bought a pile of US treasuries paying 12% for 20 or 30 years. The purchase wiped out the unfunded liabilities in one fell swoop. Securities dealers started selling what were known as 'strip coupons' to companies and individuals. They would strip off the coupons attached to a bond. The coupons would indicate the amount to be paid to the holder every six months and you could buy a coupon or several coupons and stick them in your pension plan or RRSP or knowing that in some future date you would get a fixed amount of cash. The coupons would be cashed every 6 months and after the coupons were stripped from the bonds what remained was the face value of the bond, say $50,000,000 and due in 20 years. You could buy the coupons or if you had enough cash buy the 'stripped' bond.
Example : You need $50,000 in 20 years and the annual interest rate on the bond is 10% You can buy the bond or buy a coupon.
Here is the math : The bond is worth $50,000 in 20 years and you must pay $7,432 today. If the interest rate is 15% you pay $3,055 today
And if you buy when the rate is 15% and the rate declines to 10% some time in the future your investment is now worth a lot more than what you paid; you can sell it and pat yourself on the back or keep it until maturity.
Many investors bought them to secure a guaranteed amount of cash one or two decades in the future. Pension funds bought the bonds for the same reason as Iacocca : a government guaranteed return well into the future and an investment which erased unfunded liabilities and increased the stock price of the company
Simple math.
Doesn't work today, the rates are too low.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1664  
Old Posted May 11, 2020, 2:08 AM
alps's Avatar
alps alps is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin May View Post
Admiralty Place was finished in 1986. The developer bought into the hype of the great wealth we were going to have from offshore oil and gas exploration and development induced by the federal/provincial governments; it really kicked off in 1979/80. And then high interest rates and inflation effectively wiped out the developer. I can remember the large misleading ads in the Herald with a drawing of a ferry gliding by the new building. We bought our house in May 1983 and the interest rate was 13.75%, a rate you will never see again in your lifetime.
Thanks... very interesting!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1665  
Old Posted May 11, 2020, 8:52 PM
Franco401 Franco401 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Fredericton
Posts: 1,203
Was Admiralty Place really designed by Arthur Erickson? I see some similarity to his Vancouver work but I feel like I would have definitely heard about this by now. It's extremely postmodern (or at least not particularly Late Modern) for him as well.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1666  
Old Posted May 11, 2020, 10:54 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 8,405
According to Wikipedia, yes.

Quote:
1987: Admiralty Place housing, Dartmouth, Nova Scotia (with Cowle and Martin)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1667  
Old Posted Dec 26, 2020, 11:05 PM
michael_d40 michael_d40 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Brunswick
Posts: 801
Excavation for building 5 called “Brightwork” has officially begun at Kings Wharf.
__________________
:
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1668  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2020, 7:25 PM
Jonovision's Avatar
Jonovision Jonovision is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,003
That's odd since the stage 2 development agreements have not yet been approved for any new buildings on the site.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1669  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2020, 8:52 PM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is offline
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 33,673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonovision View Post
That's odd since the stage 2 development agreements have not yet been approved for any new buildings on the site.
I think I read that developers can do excavation before the building permits are issued. Is this how it works?

Hopefully they will start more than just 1 more 12 storey building within the next couple years. I think it they built a larger podium building and maybe some townhouses it would give the area a lot more of a neighbourhood feel.

The canal area of Dartmouth has a lot of potential as a character-filled pedestrian-friendly area with a sense of place and history that for now is largely unrealized. Canal St could be developed into an industrial style mixed use neighbourhood (like Grainery Lofts, but maybe tied in more with what used to be there), King's Wharf and a marine type area, and the old downtown. It would be pretty unique. Right now it does not feel like more than the sum of its parts because nothing connects well. The canal is a mix of good and bad (interesting marine railway and daylighting efforts, not so great 2000 era development), nothing much has happened on the old industrial land, Alderney feels like it's optimized for a bunch of car traffic it never gets, and King's Wharf and the canal are on the "backside" of Portland Street.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1670  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2020, 9:07 PM
Takeo Takeo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Halifax
Posts: 595
I thought about buying in Brightwork but the unit I was looking at would have been right beside the train tracks. And according to CN rail traffic is expected to increase if anything. And there are already maybe half a dozen trains a day I think. And there is no set schedule. They can come and go at all hours. They did finally get them to stop blowing the whistle in the middle of the night though when Fares paid to put a fence along the tracks a few years ago. But still.

Also Fares has promised all along that there would be a second rail crossing at some point. Preferably above grade but at lease a second at grade crossing. The city rejected the above grade plan due to (I believe) design, cost and maintenance. CN rejected the at grade plan because it would have been too close to the other crossing. So it looks like it’s never going to happen. But they needed emergency access before they could do anymore building. So part of the Brightwork plan is a mini ramp over the tracks that’s 100% on Fare’s land (not on city land) and will be accessible only by pedestrians and first responder vehicles.

Anyway needless to say I decided against it. One of those things where it looks wonderful and “romantic” in the marketing materials but… I’m not so sure how much I’d like the day to day reality. Also I still hear mutterings about Fare’s build quality. Not convinced there’s anything to that. But anyway. I think I’d rather forego the waterfront thing and see what happens eventually in the canal area that’s not behind the rail line.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1671  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2020, 2:04 AM
Good Baklava's Avatar
Good Baklava Good Baklava is offline
Somewhat Pretentious
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Someplace somewhere
Posts: 501
A Facebook photo page suggests this will be a 26 & 4 storey site.
__________________
Haligonian in exile.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1672  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2020, 4:56 AM
michael_d40 michael_d40 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Brunswick
Posts: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
I thought about buying in Brightwork but the unit I was looking at would have been right beside the train tracks. And according to CN rail traffic is expected to increase if anything. And there are already maybe half a dozen trains a day I think. And there is no set schedule. They can come and go at all hours. They did finally get them to stop blowing the whistle in the middle of the night though when Fares paid to put a fence along the tracks a few years ago. But still.

Also Fares has promised all along that there would be a second rail crossing at some point. Preferably above grade but at lease a second at grade crossing. The city rejected the above grade plan due to (I believe) design, cost and maintenance. CN rejected the at grade plan because it would have been too close to the other crossing. So it looks like it’s never going to happen. But they needed emergency access before they could do anymore building. So part of the Brightwork plan is a mini ramp over the tracks that’s 100% on Fare’s land (not on city land) and will be accessible only by pedestrians and first responder vehicles.

Anyway needless to say I decided against it. One of those things where it looks wonderful and “romantic” in the marketing materials but… I’m not so sure how much I’d like the day to day reality. Also I still hear mutterings about Fare’s build quality. Not convinced there’s anything to that. But anyway. I think I’d rather forego the waterfront thing and see what happens eventually in the canal area that’s not behind the rail line.
I decided on the Keelson earlier this year and couldn’t be happier. The train really is a non issue. I can’t hear a thing here on one of the upper floors. The community is amazing. Also - regarding the build quality another person mentioned. I don’t know what they mean. The Keelson is built like an army bunker. You can’t hear a thing.

Regarding the secondary access, that will happen shortly. It will be above grade for pedestrians and emergency vehicles only. It only needs to be complete before occupancy of the 5th building. So they are free to commence construction now (just can’t be occupied until the secondary ramp is complete)
__________________
:
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1673  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2020, 5:46 PM
Jonovision's Avatar
Jonovision Jonovision is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,003
The applications that are in for the city are for a 26 storey rental tower with podium and a 4 storey hotel right next to it. There is no applications in yet for the Brightwood building or the building on the Alderney side of the tracks that would be required for the ramp.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1674  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2020, 12:17 PM
IanWatson IanWatson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,220
The secondary ramp is part of this build. IIRC it will be a pedestrian bridge that can be used by vehicles during an emergency.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1675  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2020, 2:39 PM
Takeo Takeo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Halifax
Posts: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by michael_d40 View Post
I decided on the Keelson earlier this year and couldn’t be happier. The train really is a non issue. I can’t hear a thing here on one of the upper floors. The community is amazing. Also - regarding the build quality another person mentioned. I don’t know what they mean. The Keelson is built like an army bunker. You can’t hear a thing.

Regarding the secondary access, that will happen shortly. It will be above grade for pedestrians and emergency vehicles only. It only needs to be complete before occupancy of the 5th building. So they are free to commence construction now (just can’t be occupied until the secondary ramp is complete)
I tend to agree regarding quality. Maybe there were deficiencies with an earlier building or some other Fares building in the past and so this view persists. But anecdotally speaking, I’ve been in to see a few units in Aqua Vista and the construction looks very high quality to me. Still… it’s something people (including some agents) say.

And yes I would have ZERO concern regarding train noise in Keelson or even on the first building (Anchorage) if the unit was on the side opposite the tracks. But the unit I was thinking about in Brightwork would be directly facing and very close to the tracks. I’ve talked to people who face the tracks in the first building and they’ve said that it is an issue. Although when your windows are closed it’s fine.

I’m aware of the ramp solution. My point is that this solution is a compromise that falls far short of what Fares had been promising all along, until he hit a brick wall with CN and the city. It’s probably not a big issue or a deal breaker though. But an above grade crossing would have been nice.

Last edited by Takeo; Dec 30, 2020 at 6:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1676  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2020, 3:43 PM
DigitalNinja DigitalNinja is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 964
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
But the unit I was thinking about in Brightwork would be directly facing and basically right on top of the tracks. I’ve talked to people who face the tracks in the first building and they’ve said that it is an issue. Although when your windows are closed it’s fine.
I thought that The Brightwork was going to be behind the 26 story "Building E and the 4 story hotel? I thought it might be "Lot G" But looking at it again I think I was mistaken and it's Lot J?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1677  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2020, 5:54 PM
mleblanc mleblanc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 527
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalNinja View Post
I thought that The Brightwork was going to be behind the 26 story "Building E and the 4 story hotel? I thought it might be "Lot G" But looking at it again I think I was mistaken and it's Lot J?
The image below is what is going on currently. Lot "E" is the 26-floor apartment building, and lot "J" is Brightwork, in the picture of it you can see the flyover ramp.
Edit: the map is a little outdated with regard to Lot E building as it's now two separate buildings with an inner courtyard see https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default...S_Redacted.pdf

Source: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...455985?cmp=rss
https://www.halifax.ca/sites/default...011presapp.pdf




Last edited by mleblanc; Dec 30, 2020 at 6:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1678  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2020, 6:17 PM
Takeo Takeo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Halifax
Posts: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalNinja View Post
I thought that The Brightwork was going to be behind the 26 story "Building E and the 4 story hotel? I thought it might be "Lot G" But looking at it again I think I was mistaken and it's Lot J?
Lot J. 12 stories.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1679  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2020, 6:31 PM
Takeo Takeo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Halifax
Posts: 595
I wonder if the fact that they’ve aligned their street grid with Prince indicates that they may still hold out hope for a vehicle crossing at some point. I wouldn’t count on it and the original design was ridiculous anyway (a huge ugly spiral thing to account for grade differences within a tight space). But maybe if Kings Wharf does eventually fulfill it’s vision and there are a lot more people living there, they could go back to the city and reevaluate. Even if that were to happen we’re probably talking a decade from now though. I don’t think it will ever happen.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1680  
Old Posted Dec 30, 2020, 7:47 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 8,405
I think this is shaping into a very nice development, that will hopefully spur on more such developments in DTD in the near future.

IMHO this area has always had a certain charm that tends to be ignored by those focused on the DT Halifax side of the harbour, but perhaps it won't be for much longer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces > Halifax > Halifax Peninsula & Downtown Dartmouth
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 8:13 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.