California High Speed Rail Thread

[Busy Bee]

As for rail service south of Gilroy, in lieu of electrification for the foreseeable future, I can see some slick high efficiency Stadler Flirt or Alsthom Coradia DMU's or even battery tech being a good approach for these destinations.

[jmecklenborg]

^Do you have a link to detailed drawings for Alternative 4?

I checked and currently there are only three inbound and three outbound trains per day from Gilroy. There are two stations in between San Jose and Gilroy. Meanwhile, Gilroy will get a HSR station where I have read roughly 25% of HSR trains will stop.

So Gilroy (and by extension, Monterrey County) will get midday/weekend service into San Francisco that it doesn't have currently via HSR. It makes me wonder how much Caltrain service will actually operate on this section...I'm sure that rush hour trains will be necessary because there won't be reliable excess seating capacity on the HSR trains, but it's unclear if there will be a need for any Caltrain service outside of rush hour.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

The UP territory south of Tamien will have a dedicated non-electrified track for UP freight with two Caltrain/HSR tracks fully electrified to Gilroy. It's an okay compromise, it isn't perfect but it will satisfy the notoriously bellyaching UPRR and facilitate the complete retirement of all Caltrain diesel ops...no ridiculous swapping locomotives business for the final mileage into Gilroy. Welcome to the 21st century.

There is also a greenfield diversion around Morgan Hill, no? The new tracks will jog over to the 101 and then back. I think this is intended so that HSR can pass slower Caltrain.

Assuming the combined Caltrain/HSR maintains a lot of schedule discipline, that opens up other possibilites for Salinas and Santa Cruz. They could run it with a timed transfer at Gilroy, for example. if I'm sure everyone will want a one-seat ride, but if the transfer allows you to get on an HSR train and go warp speed I'm sure people would take that deal.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I'm sure everyone will want a one-seat ride, but if the transfer allows you to get on an HSR train and go warp speed I'm sure people would take that deal.

The HSR trains are going to operate at 110mph max between Gilroy and San Francisco. I'd like to see a projected timetable...if the trains average 80mph with the mandatory stops at San Jose and SFO then the total transit time will be exactly one hour.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by ardecila

There is also a greenfield diversion around Morgan Hill, no? The new tracks will jog over to the 101 and then back. I think this is intended so that HSR can pass slower Caltrain.

The Morgan Hill bypass featured in Alt 1-3 was not included in Alt 4. Alt 4 will have 110mph HSR trains running through downtown Morgan Hill. Morgan Hill officials while preferring the diversion route, has been pushing for numerous grade separations as part of the compromise route through downtown. As of yet the authority has not agreed to that but if I was a betting man by the time construction nears they will have come to an agreement to eliminate some if not all of the rail-auto interaction points through this section, likely with shared funding. Just a hunch. As a matter of fact I think this tactic CHSRA is taking on the blended peninsula is designed to get the locals to front the grade sep money BEFORE operations begin as it's obvious no one wants numerous grade sep construction slow zones for several years right after South Bay HSR operations begin.

[Busy Bee]

More fail cheerleading from Vartabedian: https://calmatters.org/politics/2022...rail-standoff/

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

More fail cheerleading from Vartabedian: https://calmatters.org/politics/2022...rail-standoff/

“There is visually nothing happening in the Central Valley,” said Jeff Denham, the former chairman of the House rail subcommittee, a Republican almond farmer who voted for the project when he was in the Legislature but later became a strident critic. “Equipment has been moved out.”

The thing is, you could drive this guy's supporters to the construction sites but they still would believe him. That's how psychology works.

[Busy Bee]

Yeah, in an era where shock has been nearly destroyed, reading that quote is truly shocking. Its the opposite of reality.

[ardecila]

I mean, it's true in a sense. There are various completed structures where work has ceased, because all the concrete is poured and they haven't authorized the laying of track/signals/electrical systems yet. Looking at some of those flyovers on YouTube, seeing the completed structures just standing alone in a farm field is very weird/disconcerting.

There's also no firm plan from CHSRA on how they're gonna use the first segment, right? Is it just gonna be a new route for the San Joaquins?

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

The Morgan Hill bypass featured in Alt 1-3 was not included in Alt 4. Alt 4 will have 110mph HSR trains running through downtown Morgan Hill. Morgan Hill officials while preferring the diversion route, has been pushing for numerous grade separations as part of the compromise route through downtown. As of yet the authority has not agreed to that but if I was a betting man by the time construction nears they will have come to an agreement to eliminate some if not all of the rail-auto interaction points through this section, likely with shared funding. Just a hunch. As a matter of fact I think this tactic CHSRA is taking on the blended peninsula is designed to get the locals to front the grade sep money BEFORE operations begin as it's obvious no one wants numerous grade sep construction slow zones for several years right after South Bay HSR operations begin.

And Alt 4 is the preferred alt? OpenRailwayMap still shows the Morgan Hill bypass, but that could be out of date.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by ardecila

And Alt 4 is the preferred alt? OpenRailwayMap still shows the Morgan Hill bypass, but that could be out of date.

As of right now the Preferred Alternative (Alt 4) abandons the 101 bypass concept, instead opting to keep HSR on the existing UP/Caltrain corridor through Morgan Hill. But honestly who knows, there may be an 11th hour change closer to construction that revives the highway bypass alignment, but as of right now this is what locals and CHSRA seems to be signing off on.

[homebucket]

Some recent shots from KQED.

[TWAK]

^Remember when they said it wouldn't get started or be built? It is.

[homebucket]

^ Yup.

Is California high-speed rail happening? Yes. But there has been so much misleading negation of the value of the project, in the media and elsewhere, that unless you live in the Central Valley you might not even realize it is the biggest ongoing construction project in the state, perhaps the nation.

...

Also, Jon Switalski just hosted California High-Speed Rail Authority (CAHSRA) executive director Brian Kelly on the Rebuild SoCal Zone podcast. They talk about where the project is right now and how it got to this stage. For reference, that’s 119 miles under construction in the Central Valley, and environmental clearance completed on about 300 miles of the total 400-plus miles, with more segments slated to clear this summer and in the next few years.

Of course funding is a large part of the discussion, as it should be for any project of this magnitude. Estimates of the project’s cost have doubled from the first estimate of $45 billion – made before any design or environmental or right of way work had been done, around the time voters approved a $9 billion bond to get the project started.

“Given the costs, we have to do it in pieces,” says Kelly. “This is how you have to do big projects.” The total cost estimate is not out of line with other high-speed rail projects being built around the world, he added, saying that England is building a system that will cost about $110 billion.

Kelly also points out that building an equal amount of travel capacity via freeway and airport expansions would cost twice as much – and bring none of the clean energy or environmental benefits associated with a high-speed, electrified train.

“It’s a bargain in contrast,” he says.

Plans are to finish the first segment from Merced to Bakersfield by 2030. That first operating segment would serve several large cities, and provide connections to other cities on both ends. Meanwhile, the other segments are getting environmental clearance, to be followed by design, community outreach, and construction.

https://cal.streetsblog.org/2022/05/...gh-speed-rail/

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by TWAK

^Remember when they said it wouldn't get started or be built?

The opposition is pathological. They'll be saying that a month before opening. They will be really worn out by then from the constant pushing of the goal post.

[TWAK]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

The opposition is pathological. They'll be saying that a month before opening. They will be really worn out by then from the constant pushing of the goal post.

"It won't be passed"
"It won't get started"
"It won't be finished"

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by TWAK

"It won't be passed"
"It won't get started"
"It won't be finished"

Unfortunately, traditional and professional media like the LA Times has harassed the project for the past 15 years. More recently, Elon Musk, more so than any other individual, has distracted the public from something that is actually under construction toward vaporware of his own making.

This past weekend I flew to Miami for the first time in 20 years. Jesus Christ that airport is appalling. Tons of people, terrible signage, etc.

It looks like LAX is generally following Miami's expansion with an automated train to a remote rental car facility, plus a link to rail transit (Crenshaw line) similar to the new link to Miami's Metrorail. Nice assets to have, but the point of this tangent is to say the experience of using those airports is hellish. Many people prefer flying into Ft. Lauderdale instead of Miami - in LA many people prefer using Burbank, Ontario, etc., instead of LAX.

HSR is going to have much, much better station situations at its termini than even those region's secondary airports. Even at full build-out, LA Union Station is never going to be the center of mayhem that LAX is. Same for the San Jose and San Francisco HSR stations as opposed to the Bay's airports.

[jmecklenborg]

^Also, with stocks down 10-20% so far this year, capital gains tax receipts will be much lower in 2023. That means we're probably at the end of the hilariously gigantic California budget surpluses.

Suddenly, we'll be told that we're right back in a budget crisis and there is no money for CAHSR, right after there was somehow no money for CAHSR during back-to-back-to-back years of $20 billion surpluses.

[plutonicpanda]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

The opposition is pathological. They'll be saying that a month before opening. They will be really worn out by then from the constant pushing of the goal post.

Right because anyone who disagrees with you is either gas lighting, delusional, out of touch, pathological, etc. I could say the same thing for those who opposed the 710 tunnel. Just because it's being built a) doesn't mean it should and b) doesn't mean it will be built. But you'll have at least another decade of free cheerleading.

I will say, at this point I support finishing it. I am not happy about the proposed at grade crossings near San Francisco. I wish they could find a way to speed this up. The state is nearing 100 billion dollar surplus for the second year in a row. Why the hell can they not just fund this damned thing and finish it already? Oh because this state that you're defending and claiming knows so much about what they're doing building this thing is proposed two $400 checks to every registered car owner. Imagine if they spent that money on this project instead? Imagine if they spend that money on widening freeways and relieving traffic for those gas consumers? Spare me the typical induced demand trope you can't even provide a number for.

This project is a joke and those behind are jokesters but after having got this far and given it also upgrades roads and freight rail lines as well the state should do everything in its power to get the entire thing built by 2028u. It's perfectly possible. Look at how much China built their HSR system in the amount of time this one small line has been proposed for.

[MAC123]

Your argument boils down to "No u".

[Pedestrian]

Sign the petition to get CA HSR in next year's budget for a significant chunk of money: https://hsrail.salsalabs.org/cahsr-a...get/index.html

And read more about it: https://hsrail.org/blog/time-beast-m...3-ae421e0f7c9c