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  #21  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 3:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
Right, I knew we were comparing CSAs
cool. i was just mentioning it because many people think of chicagoland as being considerably larger than metro boston, which it is at the UA and MSA levels (approx. twice as large in both cases), but when you stretch things out to the CSA level, "boston" closes the gap considerably because it's surrounded by an entire galaxy of new england cities, towns, and villages, whereas in NE illinois, as soon as you leave chicagoland, you are literally in one of the biggest cornfields on our planet. the hinterlands of the two are quite strikingly different.

some 80% of chicago's CSA literally looks like this: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5595...7i13312!8i6656

there ain't much out there.




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Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
the entire state of Rhode Island is part of that Boston number, and RI has the (wealth) demographics of a much poorer, blue-collar state than Mass.
Even with rhode island, i would still imagine that boston's CSA is less poor/working class than chicago's, a reality reflected in the median income differences between the two that crawford pointed out.
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  #22  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 3:21 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
I'm not really sure what this means. The D.C. area has one of the largest black populations in the entire country.
It's generally reasonably affluent, though. DC has a huge AA population but doesn't have a high poverty rate. Most AAs in Metro DC are in those super-sprawly counties east of the District, like PG and Charles.
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  #23  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 3:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
It's generally reasonably affluent, though. DC has a huge AA population but doesn't have a high poverty rate. Most AAs in Metro DC are in those super-sprawly counties east of the District, like PG and Charles.
Yes, D.C.'s AA community is the most affluent in the country, but Chicago's is second or third, if I recall correctly.
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  #24  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 3:34 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Yes, D.C.'s AA community is the most affluent in the country, but Chicago's is second or third, if I recall correctly. There's not a massive disparity between the two that would overly penalize Chicago.
And the chicago and DC/Baltimore CSAs have nealy the same exact population, and chicago's federal tax amount is not too far below DC/Baltimore's, so that checks out

What was being discussed is the relatively small disparity between boston and chicago, though with DC/Baltimore being the exact same size as chicagoland, and with a fairly similar federal tax amount, I guess we could make it a boston vs. chicago & DC/Baltimore thing.
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  #25  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 3:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
And the chicago and DC/Baltimore CSAs have nealy the same exact population, and chicago's federal tax amount is not too far below DC/Baltimore's, so that checks out

What was being discussed is the relatively small disparity between boston and chicago, though with DC/Baltimore being the exact same size as chicagoland, and with a fairly similar federal tax amount, I guess we could make it a boston vs. chicago & DC/Baltimore thing.
Boston is the most educated region of the country, so it makes sense that they have higher income (and tax liability) per capita . It's not because there are no black people there. It's because they have a university on every corner, lol.
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  #26  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 3:42 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Boston is the most educated region of the country, so it makes sense that they have higher income (and tax liability) per capita . It's not because there are no black people there. It's because they have a university on every corner, lol.
i think boston having a lower % of AA population than chicago or DC/Baltimore is a part of this equation, but the education thing is probably an even bigger piece of the puzzle.
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  #27  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 3:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
i think boston having a lower % of AA population than chicago or DC/Baltimore is a part of this equation, but the education thing is probably an even bigger piece of the puzzle.
I don't really see any correlation between higher numbers of AA and lower per capita income.

Phoenix and Detroit have similar populations. Phoenix has far fewer AAs than Detroit. Phoenix has lower per capita income than Detroit.

NYC and LA are fairly close in CSA population. NYC has far more AAs than LA. NYC's liability is almost twice LA's.
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  #28  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
I don't really see any correlation between higher numbers of AA and lower per capita income.
US median incomes by race/ethincity:

asian: $85,897
white: $65,777
native hawiian: $64,865
hispanic: $51,404
native american: $48,370
black: $41,911

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...usehold_income



it stands to reason that places that are whiter (like boston) would tend to have higher median incomes (and it does).
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  #29  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 4:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
US median incomes by race/ethincity:

asian: $85,897
white: $65,777
native hawiian: $64,865
hispanic: $51,404
native american: $48,370
black: $41,911

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...usehold_income



it stands to reason that places that are whiter (like boston) would tend to have higher median incomes (and it does).
Portland is one of the whitest cities in the country, and has a lower median income than Chicago, which has one of the largest black populations in the country.
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  #30  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 4:25 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Portland is one of the whitest cities in the country, and has a lower median income than Chicago, which has one of the largest black populations in the country.
neat. you found an exception to the general national income trends by race/ethnicity.
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  #31  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 4:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
neat. you found an outlier that goes against general national income trends.
Pittsburgh: 66% white, 26% black, median income for family $38,795
Chicago: 45% white, 33% black, median income for family $54,188
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  #32  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 4:37 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Chicago: 45% white, 33% black, median income for family $54,188
where are you getting your stats from?


Chicago MSA by race/ethnicity:

white: 52%
latino: 23%
black: 16%
asian: 7%
other: 2%

source: https://censusreporter.org/profiles/...wi-metro-area/
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  #33  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 4:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
where are you getting your stats from?


Chicago MSA by race/ethnicity:

white: 52%
latino: 23%
black: 16%
asian: 7%
other: 2%

source: https://censusreporter.org/profiles/...wi-metro-area/
That was city vs city.
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  #34  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 5:31 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
That was city vs city.
oh.

using city-propers (and all of their inherent arbitrariness) to compare places is generally a bad idea.

also, you stats still seem off for chicago city proper:

white: 32.3%
black: 30.9%
latino: 28.7%
asian: 6.1%
other: 1.9%

source: https://statisticalatlas.com/place/I...-and-Ethnicity
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  #35  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 6:26 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
I'm not really sure what this means. The D.C. area has one of the largest black populations in the entire country.
What don't you understand? DC has a relatively wealthy AA population, especially compared to Chicago, which has dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of bombed out poor AA neighborhoods.
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  #36  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 6:31 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
I don't really see any correlation between higher numbers of AA and lower per capita income.
.
Stevie Wonder would be able to see the correlation. AA's are, on average, the race with the lowest income levels. Chicago has the 2nd largest (or 3rd) AA population in the Country, where very very large % of them live at or below the poverty level.
Boston (and Bay Area) has, by comparison, very small AA population, with similar CSA populations, it shouldn't be a surprise those metros pay more towards federal taxes.
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  #37  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 6:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago View Post
What don't you understand? DC has a relatively wealthy AA population, especially compared to Chicago, which has dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens of bombed out poor AA neighborhoods.
aren't all demographics in DC relatively wealthier than most other cities? wealthier whites, blacks, asians, hispanics.
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  #38  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 7:12 PM
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Originally Posted by dimondpark View Post
Yeah Philadelphia is in the top 10, I just finished the 3 million+ areas and some of the other large areas in states I already covered and I added NYC

2018 CSAs by Total Federal Income Tax Liability, 2018
$199.5 Billion New York-Newark CSA
$108.4 Billion San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland CSA
$101.5 Billion Los Angeles-Long Beach CSA
$74.0 Billion New York City
$66.4 Billion Washington-Baltimore-Arlington CSA
$63.8 Billion Boston-Worcester-Providence CSA
$62.2 Billion Chicago-Naperville CSA
$47.3 Billion Miami-Port St Lucie-Fort Lauderdale CSA
$40.9 Billion Dallas-Fort Worth CSA
$40.7 Billion Philadelphia-Reading-Camden CSA
$37.7 Billion Houston-The Woodlands CSA
$36.9 Billion Seattle-Tacoma CSA
$31.2 Billion Atlanta-Athens--Clark County-Sandy Springs CSA
$24.7 Billion Detroit-Warren-Ann Arbor CSA
$23.6 Billion Minneapolis-St Paul CSA
$23.1 Billion Denver-Aurora CSA
$20.4 Billion Phoenix-Mesa CSA
$18.8 Billion San Diego-Chula Vista-Carlsbad MSA
$15.6 Billion Portland-Vancouver-Salem CSA
$15.3 Billion Austin-Round Rock-Georgetown MSA
$14.7 Billion Orlando-Lakeland-Deltona CSA
$14.3 Billion Cleveland-Akron-Canton CSA
$13.8 Billion Tampa-St Petersburg-Clearwater MSA
$11.3 Billion Sacramento-Roseville CSA
$9.6 San Antonio-New Braunfels-Pearsall CSA
Whoa... I knew Austin was wealthy but damn it punches well above its population weight. Same with GDP.
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  #39  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 7:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
I wouldn't have expected to see Boston above Chicago and so close to DC. Are salaries that much lower in Chicago? I didn't think so. Miami punching above its weight here too.

Also, you're not joking about the Inland Empire:

$11.6 Billion Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario MSA (4.6 million population)
I'm not suprised to see LA's economy punch so far below its weight class. 5 million people earning very low wages in the IE dilutes LA's numbers enormously. Sad to say but economically and culturally, the IE doesn't amount to much of importance. It could disappear from LA's CSA and not really be missed by the remainder of the metro.

Even more amazing is the implication that earnings-wise, SF Bay Area rivals LA with half as many people. There is plenty of extreme poverty in the Bay, but it is overall still an issue of quality over quantity. Id much rather live in a metro with higher per-capita earnings. It tends to mean that the average person you rub shoulders against is more likely to be skilled or do important, far-reaching work for a living. Its unfortunate, but "working class" in america is just a nice way to call someone poor.

Another interesting thing is that DC is much lower than the Bay Area on tax liability, despite DC being roughly on-par with it in measures of household and per-capita income (and education level). I wonder what accounts for this discrepancy. Do income measures not take into account stock earnings?

Another CSA-pair I always notice is Denver-San Diego. Similar populations, similar per-capita and household earnings, but for some reason Denver scores much higher here.

Last edited by Bikemike; Oct 30, 2020 at 8:01 PM.
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  #40  
Old Posted Oct 30, 2020, 8:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Shawn View Post

(On the flip side, the NH portion of the CSA are all paying 2.5%+, even if they aren't paying state income taxes)
Cost of living in NH is deceiving. They lure you in with the no sales or income tax schtick and then nail you from every other direction. Need to register a car? lol The insane property taxes push up rents too.

Rhode Island is terrible too. I would have had to pay excise tax on my car but at least they don't pretend to be cheap.
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