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  #2161  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2021, 12:16 AM
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^Apple and Toyota could make it happen.
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  #2162  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2021, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by urbandreamer View Post
Are Toyota and Apple building a car platform together? The rumoured massive improvement in battery tech on the Apple car has me wondering if they're actually going to use Toyota's hydrogen fuel cell to leapfrog Tesla etc.
Why would they need a a massive improvement in battery tech if they’re using fuel cell tech?
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  #2163  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2021, 12:25 AM
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^Exactly. The rumour could be bs just to keep the competition on edge; meanwhile the real tech is hydrogen.
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  #2164  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2021, 2:37 PM
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Cars will soon be on the decline because we are heading into the future and when that happens...flying cars and flying motorcycles with futuristic highways and futuristic roadways I mean it is inevitable
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  #2165  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2021, 3:25 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by thewave46 View Post
Toyota squandered nothing, because being 'first mover' has never been Toyota's strategy writ large. Ever.

When electric cars are reasonably mature, Toyota will be there. They'll probably have some sort of scaled up Prius battery, too. It's not as if Toyota's just pumping out RAMs and hoping for the best. They're just cautious which will pay dividends for their cautious, yet reliable customers.
But they were the first with a real hybrid...

EVs are "reasonably mature" now.

Toyota will lose their international dominance at this rate.
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  #2166  
Old Posted Sep 23, 2021, 3:55 PM
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But they were the first with a real hybrid...

EVs are "reasonably mature" now.

Toyota will lose their international dominance at this rate.
There's a reason they only did one model of hybrid off the bat. It was an experiment. It was a long-term thinking plan to introduce the Prius in 1997 in a world of $12/bbl oil. Toyota thinks long.

To those who say they're doomed: It's not as if Toyota's not into battery tech. Hybrids allow them to keep in the know on the leading edge of battery tech without the whole-hog commitment of using all their battery resources on one vehicle. The more experience Toyota has with ordinary folks buying and using hybrids and producing them at lower costs (see: Corolla hybrid), the more data Toyota gets on long-term battery performance under real-world conditions. When they do commit to an exclusive EV, they'll have tons of data with respect to battery performance. They'll also have the knowledge to scale battery production as they've been building them for decades.

EVs are still very new to the mainstream. We've maybe a half-a-dozen models whose long-term profitability and reliability is unknown at this juncture. Let others be first to make the mistakes.

To use another example, Toyota was late to transverse-engine front-wheel drive layout. VW pioneered the Golf in 1974 and GM/Chevrolet went whole-hog following with the Citation in 1979. The front-drive Corolla didn't happen until the mid-1980s. The Citation was a disaster for Chevrolet; it generated a record number of recalls and was shoddily designed and built. The fully-baked Corolla lured those burned Chevy customers away. Chevrolet seems to be re-enacting their history with the Bolt.

Like I said: Toyota is cautious. Which makes sense given their customer base.
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  #2167  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2021, 12:50 AM
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Would you buy a Toyota Mirai? James May did.
https://youtu.be/lgIj2XTSBuQ
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  #2168  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2021, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by urbandreamer View Post
^Apple and Toyota could make it happen.
Hardly. Infrastructure is expensive. And there's zero profit for either of those two companies to invest in infrastructure.

It's one thing for Tesla to build charging stations, because electricity is everywhere. It's entirely another to build a whole network of hydrogen filling stations. That requires either an entirely new hydrogen distribution system, or an on-site reformer at each starting to turn natural gas into hydrogen, which is both expensive as infrastructure and subject to carbon taxes for its emissions.

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Would you buy a Toyota Mirai? James May did.
https://youtu.be/lgIj2XTSBuQ
Maybe if Toyota wants to give out the thousands they are handing out on incentives in California and Vancouver. Especially since I'd need to rent another car anytime i go outside a 250 km radius.
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  #2169  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2021, 2:35 PM
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https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...-up/5812458001



GM's new business model turns carmaker into software company: 'A potential game-changer'

General Motors' transition to all-electric vehicles will transform the century-old automaker into a software company that just happens to make hardware: cars.

In the new business model, the cars will be a platform to deliver GM-developed software to offer consumers services beyond their vehicle. Services that can be used in their homes and other areas of their lives, GM leaders say.

It is "a potential game-changer for delivering subscription services that create recurring revenue," said Alan Wexler, GM's senior vice president of innovation and growth.

Wexler said over the coming weeks GM will share more details on how its software strategy is turning cars into devices.

“(It's) similar to how you might think about your iPhone or Android phone," Wexler said Wednesday at the Benzinga Electric Vehicle Investor Conference held virtually. "We’re working to create experiences and services, leveraging data in the vehicles and beyond the vehicles."

The new business model is helping GM recruit and hire the top technology talent too, GM President Mark Reuss said Tuesday at the 2021 Mackinac Policy Conference on Mackinac Island.

"We’ve hired more people in the first half of 2021 than we did all in 2020 put together," Reuss said. "Younger people and experienced people who want to be part of the revolution of what this transformation looks like are coming to our company to do it."

Delivering desirability
Reuss said that in the past Silicon Valley and other tech types would have shunned the auto business, but now people understand that the car is a platform that delivers the software. "That’s very exciting to a lot of people who probably wouldn’t have thought about automotive in the past.”

In November, GM said it would hire 3,000 engineers, designers and technology specialists through the end of the first quarter, and most of those people can work remotely, opening up the talent pool across the nation.

GM did not immediately have its most current hiring numbers available.
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  #2170  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2021, 8:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
Hydrogen fuel cells in passenger cars are beyond useless. Look up how many charging stations are near you. Then look up where the nearest hydrogen fueling station is. Chances are you might have to drive hours for an H2 station. And they cost millions to build.

Meanwhile any electrical outlet can charge an EV (the only difference is charging speed). But there's no such choice with hydrogen.
That is very true, for now.

Batteries are fine for cars and even small trucks but are completely useless for freight, agriculture, cargo, heavy manufacturing, long-distance trucking/buses/passenger rail, and air travel. As these huge sectors decarbonize the ONLY viable energy solution is hydrogen and they know it which is why nearly all technology investments of companies in these sectors are hydrogen.

This will result in a huge increase in supply and hence infrastructure and of course plunging prices.
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  #2171  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2021, 12:23 AM
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Does Molson Ex like the 2022 Toyota Tundra's grille?
https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/regi...tundra-updates
Or maybe you'd prefer the 2022 Nissan Frontier?
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  #2172  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2021, 12:34 AM
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As someone who basically lives inside my car, I would definitely prefer a fuel cell future where hydrogen fuelling stations replaces petrol stations.
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  #2173  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2021, 11:13 AM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is online now
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Originally Posted by theman23 View Post
As someone who basically lives inside my car, I would definitely prefer a fuel cell future where hydrogen fuelling stations replaces petrol stations.
Why? What difference does it make whether you're pumping electrons or atoms?

That says, this has mostly been settled for light duty vehicles. If hydrogen takes off, the infrastructure is mostly going to be designed and built for semis, trains, etc.
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  #2174  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2021, 3:59 PM
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Yeah massive Hydrogen refueling terminals at Ports and other centralized points are a possible vision of the future. We'll never see them distributed like today's gas stations.
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  #2175  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2021, 6:41 PM
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Originally Posted by urbandreamer View Post
Does Molson Ex like the 2022 Toyota Tundra's grille?
https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/regi...tundra-updates
Or maybe you'd prefer the 2022 Nissan Frontier?
Nope. They can be Japanese marques but it doesn't lessen their fugliness. Designed to look menacing to appeal to boys who have some strange need to appear menacing, but cannot do it on their own (too little exercise, too much Rim Whoreton's and too much Nickelback).

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  #2176  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2021, 7:52 PM
thewave46 thewave46 is offline
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Originally Posted by urbandreamer View Post
Or maybe you'd prefer the 2022 Nissan Frontier?
At least Nissan refreshed the Frontier recently as before it had been the same truck since 2005.

I had one as a rental (the rental place's choice to me: this thing or walk) and was somewhat astounded that something relatively compact could consume so much gasoline and produce so little acceleration. Thankfully I was in the land of cheap gasoline, but man.
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  #2177  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2021, 6:35 PM
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This is why Toyota will be just fine regardless of what happens in the ICE/EV wars;

Longest-Lasting Vehicles to Reach 200,000 Miles - iSeeCars Study
Rank Vehicle % of Cars Over 200k Miles
1 Toyota Land Cruiser 16.3%
2 Toyota Sequoia 11.2%

3 Chevrolet Suburban 5.1%
4 Ford Expedition 4.9%
5 Toyota 4Runner 4.1%
6 Toyota Avalon 3.9%

7 Chevrolet Tahoe 3.9%
8 Toyota Highlander Hybrid 3.8%
9 Toyota Tundra 3.7%

10 GMC Yukon XL 3.6%
11 Honda Ridgeline 3.4%
12 GMC Yukon 3.3%
13 Honda Odyssey 2.9%
14 Toyota Tacoma 2.8%
15 Lincoln Navigator 2.6%
16 Toyota Prius 2.6%

https://www.iseecars.com/longest-lasting-cars-study

That's as impressive of an endorsement as any auto manufacturer could ever hope for; actual reality that 50% of most travelled vehicles on the road are Toyota.

To say that's impressive engineering would be an understatement.
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  #2178  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2021, 6:52 PM
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^ this is also (seemingly) an endorsement for the longevity of large body-on-frame truck platforms.
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  #2179  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2021, 7:01 PM
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^ this is also (seemingly) an endorsement for the longevity of large body-on-frame truck platforms.
Unshockingly, vehicles engineered for hard use under demanding conditions last longer.

People brag that their pickup truck went 400,000km doing commuter duty. Uh, yeah, something that was engineered to haul/tow thousands of pounds will fare somewhat better under light-duty highway commuting conditions.

A compact car will go most of that distance with half the fuel required under the same demands, so I'm not sure one's really ahead.
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  #2180  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2021, 7:08 PM
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I know someone who manages a small fleet of F-150 pickups for work (5-6 trucks), and he says that they typically last around 300-350k before kicking the bucket, provided they don't get totalled first (which is probably the result for almost half of them across their lifetime).

My 12 year old Volvo is at just under 260k right now - I wonder If I'll get 300k out of it. I minimize my use as much as possible with it though, generally using my wifes newer car whenever I can, so I only put about 10k a year on it now. We'll see.
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