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  #61  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2020, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
My mom's cousin moved to Sunnyvale in the 50's and must have paid $30-40k for his house. Worth about 2 million now.
My family moved to Sunnyvale in the early '70s from New York and that's what they paid for the house then. Also worth over $2M today. If it was ever 'dirt cheap' to buy a house in the Bay Area, it wasn't by then--the first place they bought was a much smaller house and yard than what we were used to back East. But it was certainly pricier than Clifton Park all around.
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  #62  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2020, 8:51 AM
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As long as people don't start waking up one day saying, "OMG, I want to move to New Jersey!" or "Delaware is where I need to be!" which nobody ever does, let's be honest, the California dream will always have allure and draw for millions. Other places just don't have the it factor.
I agree that California will always have the "it" factor and will always be a trend setting and dynamic state.

That said, it has lost a lot of it's lustre and allure. No one "dreams" about California anymore. It will always thrive and have an enviable quality of life {if you can afford it} but I tend to think that California's best days are behind her. Her status of being the US's hip, cool, counter culture mecca where you dreams come true are over and most importantly, they will never return. The Golden State is not nearly as glittering as it once was.
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  #63  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2020, 3:39 PM
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"Nobody dreams" of California anymore

I already said friends back east who aren't even trying to get into the creative fields are definitely dreaming about it. You can't discount all the people (especially the young) trying to get into their dream fields of tech or entertainment. It's silly and unrealistic to think this. What is the cool state instead of California? Texas? Florida? Cool or hip are the last things people think of when those states are mentioned.

But keep thinking that it's over. It makes alot of sense.

Put it this way, if the rents and real estate prices drop to 25 year lows or something, you will see a massive population boom, even with those conseratives who claim it's a awful place.
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  #64  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2020, 3:43 PM
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the bay area was the funnest trip ive ever been on. from what i here its a little more chill now. that would be a very good thing, then i would feel i fit in. i didnt fit in at all, people knew i lived somewhere els.

i mean its not more chill this second... you know what i mean i think.
i was there right before weed was legal too, people always saying on the street want weed? all the time.

Last edited by dubu; Aug 22, 2020 at 3:54 PM.
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  #65  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2020, 4:21 PM
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Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
"Nobody dreams" of California anymore

I already said friends back east who aren't even trying to get into the creative fields are definitely dreaming about it. You can't discount all the people (especially the young) trying to get into their dream fields of tech or entertainment. It's silly and unrealistic to think this. What is the cool state instead of California? Texas? Florida? Cool or hip are the last things people think of when those states are mentioned.

But keep thinking that it's over. It makes alot of sense.

Put it this way, if the rents and real estate prices drop to 25 year lows or something, you will see a massive population boom, even with those conseratives who claim it's a awful place.
CA is 'cool' due to the reputation it earned 50-60 years ago but today, it's coolness varies depending on who you ask. I love CA, my wife is 'meh' about it. Young people want to live in areas that offer huge opportunities even unrealistic; finance job in NY, entertainment industry in LA or tech in the Bay Area.
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  #66  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2020, 6:07 PM
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Well, sure. But that's true for everywhere.
NYC might be beloved on these kinds of forums, but you see a good mix in real life or social media about it. Not every one cares how urban it is.

The thing is, NYC and California still have enough people who think it's cool and I don't think that's ever gone away. The social media in the last 10 years as put California in the spotlight, if you pay attention. I don't see this going away. The young people today don't care what California's reputation was in the 1970s. They do see all the social media stuff every day, however.
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  #67  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2020, 6:12 PM
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I think Portland is cool

Like, really cool
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  #68  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2020, 8:06 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
CA is 'cool' due to the reputation it earned 50-60 years ago but today, it's coolness varies depending on who you ask. I love CA, my wife is 'meh' about it. Young people want to live in areas that offer huge opportunities even unrealistic; finance job in NY, entertainment industry in LA or tech in the Bay Area.
I've got to admit, I was drawn to California in part because I wanted to get the hell out of Phoenix/Ahwatukee (hated high school, was probably literally the first person to leave the football stadium after graduation). It offered something "different" (exotic, if you will?) to 18-year-old shithead me.

Unfortunately my escape was to Orange County, which is basically suburban Phoenix, with water.
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  #69  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2020, 9:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
The “California Dream” is dead insofar as one has already convinced him/herself that it is. This week didn’t really change anything other than make what are already challenging times even more anathematic. There’s no denying the major livability issues besetting LA and the Bay Area, nor is there anything wrong with seeking a higher quality of life (whatever that means to you) someplace less expensive. But someone (theurbanpolitician?) said it best in one of the other “doom and gloom” threads: “too big to fail.”

Best of luck.
This. LA may flat line or go into slow steady decline but it's not going anywhere. It will remain one of the biggest and most influential cities for a very long time. There are 12-18 million people here, depending on what you count.
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  #70  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2020, 9:59 PM
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The thing about 'dreams' is that they never were real in the first place.

California was essentially populated by real estate hucksters who hyped an exotic and futuristic escape from parts east up until about the 1960s, when a space age, high tech, countercultural dream born of widespread optimism and prosperity became the enticing narrative. People receptive and economically capable of responding to the resulting combination of the exotic, futuristic, and culturally avant-garde narrative kept the state growing and in the public consciousness until relatively recently. But America changed, and so too did its perceptions.

In the poorer, sicklier, more abjectly desperate and angry America of 2020, there's not much to hype and not many who can afford to buy in anyway. The 'exotic' holds no allure in a nation where there is no longer a trustworthy 'normal' upon which to fall back; the countercultural now seems unaffordable, silly, a ticket to addiction and homelessness; a 'future' of burning forests, rising seas, and wildly shifting economic sands isn't much of a draw.

California suffers all the economic and health crises and embittered cultural malaise that the rest of the country does--because those are the defining issues of our age. There's no "____ Dream" going on anywhere anymore, because this is an age of disillusion. Where once you heard people send you off with a chirpy 'Have fun!' you're now more likely to hear a leaden 'Be safe." And that was even before COVID ravaged the cities. There's very little dreaming in a time when reaching for the stars takes a backseat to battening the hatches.
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  #71  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2020, 12:33 AM
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^^^ Sounds like California was presented as a better Western Florida when you mentioned the real estate huskers. I will admit that the natural beauty and the counterculture attracted me as well as being a place in the country I haven't been to yet.

But the counterculture was also alive in the South where I went to college. Chattanooga and Asheville had their unique folks I'm places that, at least on the surface, resembled San Francisco in the 60s. But, so far, California has been great but still not at all different from what I observed in the East. In some ways it's a lot worse because it's still holding on to a dream that doesn't make sense for itself anymore. It's much bigger and more crowded than it was in the mid-20th century.
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  #72  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2020, 1:39 AM
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I'm currently being a tour guide to someone from NOVA in the Venice Beach/MDR area. She hasn't said a word about a decline or anything negative. Again, there's probably too many people out for its own good. People are delusional these kinds of places (SF/Chicago/LA/NYC) are just gonna die off in some way.
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  #73  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2020, 3:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001 View Post
I've got to admit, I was drawn to California in part because I wanted to get the hell out of Phoenix/Ahwatukee (hated high school, was probably literally the first person to leave the football stadium after graduation). It offered something "different" (exotic, if you will?) to 18-year-old shithead me.

Unfortunately my escape was to Orange County, which is basically suburban Phoenix, with water.
Dude what are you talking about ahwatukee could be anywhere in Southern California lol
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  #74  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2020, 3:12 PM
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Originally Posted by craigs View Post
The thing about 'dreams' is that they never were real in the first place.

California was essentially populated by real estate hucksters who hyped an exotic and futuristic escape from parts east up until about the 1960s, when a space age, high tech, countercultural dream born of widespread optimism and prosperity became the enticing narrative. People receptive and economically capable of responding to the resulting combination of the exotic, futuristic, and culturally avant-garde narrative kept the state growing and in the public consciousness until relatively recently. But America changed, and so too did its perceptions.

In the poorer, sicklier, more abjectly desperate and angry America of 2020, there's not much to hype and not many who can afford to buy in anyway. The 'exotic' holds no allure in a nation where there is no longer a trustworthy 'normal' upon which to fall back; the countercultural now seems unaffordable, silly, a ticket to addiction and homelessness; a 'future' of burning forests, rising seas, and wildly shifting economic sands isn't much of a draw.

California suffers all the economic and health crises and embittered cultural malaise that the rest of the country does--because those are the defining issues of our age. There's no "____ Dream" going on anywhere anymore, because this is an age of disillusion. Where once you heard people send you off with a chirpy 'Have fun!' you're now more likely to hear a leaden 'Be safe." And that was even before COVID ravaged the cities. There's very little dreaming in a time when reaching for the stars takes a backseat to battening the hatches.
i think this is pretty good.

when the millennial counter culture fizzled out into the cult of the online personality disorder i just embraced the technocratic and STEM regime that we are under and at least had something to look forward to if i fully bought in. started seeking opportunities in the bay area and elsewhere that i wouldn't have before - with limited success. got some letters behind my name.

now even that appears to be in trouble.

with no actual counter culture - Online has now revealed its truly synthetic parameters - as an alternative we are sort of culturally marooned for the time being. zoomers don’t seem to be embracing anything millennials didnt except they are more comfortable in their pessimism and are fully digital natives...although theres a solid argument that so are millennials.

california has almost always been a magnified lense (since at least the gold rush), or perhaps more aptly a psychedelic drug through which you could view the greater american project - and come away with a different perspective.
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Last edited by Centropolis; Aug 23, 2020 at 3:23 PM.
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  #75  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2020, 3:31 PM
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this has me reminiscing upon that lost millennial counter culture. in my world it was headquartered in wicker park chicago and SE portland (and williamsburg/greenpoint if my memories serve correctly in the east). it was pretty weak-sauce in retrospect but pleasant enough until the tides of time and real estate washed it away...or perhaps more accurately assimilated it.

it came too late and too gently to prevent the overheating of the empire - iraq war, etc. we are in cultural interstellar space approaching our unknown destination.
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  #76  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2020, 3:35 PM
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There's a major fire now every single year, I would not put up with that crap. Don't know how they do it. Those blackouts and extreme heat dont sound nice either.

Upstate NY seems really nice if you can make a good living there.
That’s probably because sprawlburbia has expanded to places it shouldn’t have, not because there are more fires.

Housing developers building on low-lying flood plains doesn’t mean there are more floods, either.
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  #77  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2020, 3:44 PM
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Two of California's wildfires are within the top 10 largest in state history
https://twitter.com/i/events/1296032952766173184

And more than 100,000 people being evacuated from their homes.

I guess it's nothing. Sounds like a typical snow day in the Midwest!
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  #78  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2020, 3:54 PM
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That’s probably because sprawlburbia has expanded to places it shouldn’t have, not because there are more fires.

Housing developers building on low-lying flood plains doesn’t mean there are more floods, either.
the high threat areas in the north bay are always the subdivisions and exurban properties above the valleys. the main transmission lines and highways run in the valley floors and dont have the blackouts and firestorms, generally.

much of the LA basin is also like this, more so than the bay area, so is probably less directly impacted. it was only mostly farms and rural areas being impacted probably before the 60s, really.
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  #79  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2020, 3:54 PM
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Ugh. You don't seem to ever get it. And you don't like talking about how much the people hate the cold in your state, but you want to bring up a couple of weeks of above average temps here. It's a very rational opinion.

Wildfires aren't affecting 20 million people at the moment, and that's doulble your states population. Get real. The cold however, is every SINGLE DAY FOR MONTHS AND EVERY SINGLE PERSON HAS TO PUT UP WITH IT. And your humidity in the summer is no joke either. It's more humid here than usual, and I'm reminded how so many people have to PUT UP WITH this all summer.

You're making a very strange comparison because you think it's in your favor. It's not.
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  #80  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2020, 4:07 PM
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You're making a very strange comparison because you think it's in your favor. It's not.
You doth protest too much.
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