[Halifax] Hospitals & Healthcare

[JET]

Originally Posted by Colin May

I would like to see a few 50 storey buildings, 3 would be good and then we can all look forward to planning to increase the number of families on the peninsula.
The new medical centre in Bayers Lake is a smart decision, perhaps a 50 storey building is planned for close by.

I wonder if the Health Authority consulted with the specialists that will be serving both inpatients and outpatients. What a god awful place to put an outpatient department.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by JET

I wonder if the Health Authority consulted with the specialists that will be serving both inpatients and outpatients. What a god awful place to put an outpatient department.

Near major higways, close to a large population. No worry about fog blanketing a helipad.
A relative died at this hospital and it is not in the middle of a city, it is close to major roads and serves a larger area
https://www.southtees.nhs.uk/hospitals/james-cook/
location : https://www.google.ca/maps/place/The...2!4d-1.2164318

[ns_kid]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Regarding the future of the VG - wasn't the plan at one point to add on to the Infirmary site at Robie and Bell (formerly occupied by QE High and now by a sort of urban farm)?

So, wouldn't a good plan be to bolster the Infirmary site to cover the peninsula and add the Bayers Lake site to cover the suburbs? It actually doesn't seem like a bad way (economics aside) to get good health care coverage for all...

That is exactly what the master plan envisions. The "community outpatient facility" was always proposed to be built on the city outskirts, to accessible to people from outside metro. The "specialized outpatient facility" is proposed for the Infirmary site. There's been no announcement yet but, given the likelihood of an election, I'd say there's a good chance we'll hear more soon. There's been much speculation the existing CBC TV building is the most likely site but that would depend on reaching agreement with the feds.

All of the moving parts that are the QE project can be found on the website.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by ns_kid

That is exactly what the master plan envisions. The "community outpatient facility" was always proposed to be built on the city outskirts, to accessible to people from outside metro. The "specialized outpatient facility" is proposed for the Infirmary site. There's been no announcement yet but, given the likelihood of an election, I'd say there's a good chance we'll hear more soon. There's been much speculation the existing CBC TV building is the most likely site but that would depend on reaching agreement with the feds.

All of the moving parts that are the QE project can be found on the website.

Ahhh... I hadn't seen that before. Thanks!!

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Colin May

... The new medical centre in Bayers Lake is a smart decision, perhaps a 50 storey building is planned for close by.

If it's targeted to rural folks coming in for treatment, a pretty good location. Has good connections to the highway system. Not a great location for townies.

It leaves a lot wanting in terms of a "healthy" place to be in between appointments or while waiting. At least, when I am waiting downtown I'm able to get to a park or something other than the in-house Tim Hortons while I spend my day trying to avoid legionella-infested water.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

That's a real shame - I can't imagine how it must be to work in that environment every day. Trying to provide a sterile environment for patients while also maintaining your own health must be a virtually impossible challenge.

The real issue, since there has been apparently no plan to fix the problem or replace the hospital, is that this means we are several years -perhaps decades- from a solution. Very sad situation indeed.

The changes at Cobequid and expansion at Dartmouth General and then the Bayers Lake building will bring great change. John Young is chair of the Health Authority and he knows the problems, just a matter of a change of attitude and chunks of cash. McNeil hasn't been afraid to shake things up and when he quits in 2 years he'll walk away a proud man. (And I have never voted Liberal )

[OldDartmouthMark]

Perhaps a hospital thread should be created and those posts removed from this thread?

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Perhaps a hospital thread should be created and those posts removed from this thread?

Or we could stop second guessing the experts

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Colin May

Or we could stop second guessing the experts

Well you know what they say about experts:

expert definition -> ex - a "has-been"; spurt - "drip under pressure".

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Colin May

Or we could stop second guessing the experts

Experts? Like yourself?

Honestly, I see nothing wrong with discussing the government's philosophy regarding health care and its related facilities, nor to I see it as a positive step to completely accept the opinions of those in positions of authority without question.

However, I do think this exchange is in the wrong thread and has diluted the conversation about the building for which this thread was started.

Enough already. If you wish to discuss it further, then start a thread about hospitals/health care.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Colin May

Near major higways, close to a large population. No worry about fog blanketing a helipad.
A relative died at this hospital and it is not in the middle of a city, it is close to major roads and serves a larger area
https://www.southtees.nhs.uk/hospitals/james-cook/
location : https://www.google.ca/maps/place/The...2!4d-1.2164318

Is fog a concern? Bayer's Lake is at a higher elevation, which I'd think would make it more susceptible to all but very low-lying fog. In any case, this is an outpatient centre, so I doubt a heli-pad is needed.

The current QEII is also near major highways--much nearer than its equivalents in other cities. Compare it to Toronto's hospital district or Montreal's General. Except during rush hour, you can get to the 102 within minutes. I think it's way more more important for the outpatient services to be easily accessible to vulnerable populations via transit and on foot (especially for those without easy vehicle access) than it is to cut off ten minutes of driving time for someone coming from Tantallon, just because that person has a hang-up about driving into the (very easy to drive in) city

As for location, the idea that Bayer's Lake somehow serves more people seems totally wrong. Taking the population on the peninsula and to points east, there are about 250,000 HRM residents who will find this location further away, not closer. if the government wants to build a clinic to more convenient to rural people, fine, but it shouldn't come at the expense of an urban clinic.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Is fog a concern? Bayer's Lake is at a higher elevation, which I'd think would make it more susceptible to all but very low-lying fog. In any case, this is an outpatient centre, so I doubt a heli-pad is needed.

The current QEII is also near major highways--much nearer than its equivalents in other cities. Compare it to Toronto's hospital district or Montreal's General. Except during rush hour, you can get to the 102 within minutes. I think it's way more more important for the outpatient services to be easily accessible to vulnerable populations via transit and on foot (especially for those without easy vehicle access) than it is to cut off ten minutes of driving time for someone coming from Tantallon, just because that person has a hang-up about driving into the (very easy to drive in) city

As for location, the idea that Bayer's Lake somehow serves more people seems totally wrong. Taking the population on the peninsula and to points east, there are about 250,000 HRM residents who will find this location further away, not closer. if the government wants to build a clinic to more convenient to rural people, fine, but it shouldn't come at the expense of an urban clinic.

When it is foggy in Halifax it is clear in Bayers Lake and clear in Bedford. The regional plan envisages significant development close to Bayers Lake.
For us on the east side of the harbour outpatient services are available at Cobequid and Dartmouth General.
The issue is best discussed looking ahead 10-20 years as well as understanding the map in the regional plan which shows how insignificant Halifax peninsula will be in terms of population. Development of the MSVU lands anticipates thousands of housing units.
The Truro hospital is on the edge of town and adjacent to the 102, better placed to serve the surrounding communities.

[JET]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

If it's targeted to rural folks coming in for treatment, a pretty good location. Has good connections to the highway system. Not a great location for townies.

It leaves a lot wanting in terms of a "healthy" place to be in between appointments or while waiting. At least, when I am waiting downtown I'm able to get to a park or something other than the in-house Tim Hortons while I spend my day trying to avoid legionella-infested water.

Unless you are immunocompromised there is no need to avoid 'legionella-infested water'.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Colin May

When it is foggy in Halifax it is clear in Bayers Lake and clear in Bedford. The regional plan envisages significant development close to Bayers Lake.
For us on the east side of the harbour outpatient services are available at Cobequid and Dartmouth General.
The issue is best discussed looking ahead 10-20 years as well as understanding the map in the regional plan which shows how insignificant Halifax peninsula will be in terms of population. Development of the MSVU lands anticipates thousands of housing units.
The Truro hospital is on the edge of town and adjacent to the 102, better placed to serve the surrounding communities.

Looked at that way, downtown Toronto is also insignificant in terms of population. Moreso, even. But it's still where the primary regional medical services are located. It's nice to serve the surrounding communities, but what about serving THIS community?

If there was any vision at all regarding this stuff, the province would be considering the future transit corridors we're increasingly likely to see along west side of Bedford Basin, leading onto the peninsula and down a future Robie Street ROW of some kind. Sticking a clinic out in the middle of a business park at the edge of the woods ensures it will never be as well served by transit. And since most people who don't or can't drive likely live centrally, we're looking at forcing carless residents to take long, frustrating transit trips, so that suburbanites can shave ten minutes off an easy drive.

If I can be a little less charitable, if someone choose to live in St. Margaret's Bay or Tantallon, they can deal with coming into the city once in a while for services.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Looked at that way, downtown Toronto is also insignificant in terms of population. Moreso, even. But it's still where the primary regional medical services are located. It's nice to serve the surrounding communities, but what about serving THIS community?

I don't think the peninsula is losing population, and one major (the biggest?) regional planning goal is to increase the amount of development there in the future to reduce servicing costs and generally make the city work a lot better. It wouldn't be hard to get the peninsula up to 90,000 people or more just by developing underused land. Because of the bridges and population densities the peninsula is quite central.

I think we may need to wait for undercount-corrected 2016 census numbers to accurately compare but the 0009.00 downtown census tract (below the Citadel from around Cornwallis to Sackville) for example went from 1,984 people in 2011 to 2,357 in the 2016 census. This is comparable to the growth happening in the fastest growing suburban parts of Halifax. I am guessing this growth is going to increase from 2016-2021 rather than slow down.

There seem to be a lot of people, mostly older, who have made up their minds that suburbia is "the future". But for the most part it's not really what younger people want or can afford, and it has been tried out and hasn't worked well. It's not 1974.

[OldDartmouthMark]

This conversation would be better placed in a hospital thread, but what the heck - I'll pile on.

Regarding the future of the VG - wasn't the plan at one point to add on to the Infirmary site at Robie and Bell (formerly occupied by QE High and now by a sort of urban farm)?

So, wouldn't a good plan be to bolster the Infirmary site to cover the peninsula and add the Bayers Lake site to cover the suburbs? It actually doesn't seem like a bad way (economics aside) to get good health care coverage for all...

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

This conversation would be better placed in a hospital thread, but what the heck - I'll pile on.

Regarding the future of the VG - wasn't the plan at one point to add on to the Infirmary site at Robie and Bell (formerly occupied by QE High and now by a sort of urban farm)?

So, wouldn't a good plan be to bolster the Infirmary site to cover the peninsula and add the Bayers Lake site to cover the suburbs? It actually doesn't seem like a bad way (economics aside) to get good health care coverage for all...

That is exactly what the Premier announced. The QE2 stays and will be expanded.
I understand Kentville is now the place for knee surgery. Obviously the province doesn't want to spend a pile of money when rational use of existing facilities is a cheaper and more effective answer to our problem. Peninsula hotels have made a pile of money from selling rooms to patients who have to travel in for early morning minor procedures and expecting older people to just accept the risk and burden of travelling to Halifax is mean spirited. Day surgery/examination starts at 8 a.m. The couple killed on the 103 were travelling in for the dialysis of the retired man - 3 trips a week.
The only way to properly understand the issue is to view Google earth and see where the population is now and where it will be over the next 2 decades. If you live in Clayton Park you will arrive at Bayers Lake well before the VG or the QE2. And read the Regional Plan - Bedford, Bedford west and MSVU are the long term drivers of population growth.
I had a colonoscopy in January - at Cobequid. Previous procedures were at the VG. I get to Cobequid just as quick as the VG and without crossing the bridge.
They told me they would see me in 5 years. I needed a heart monitor, so off to the VG and try to find parking and then back to the VG next day. I then had an ultrasound at Dartmouth General - no trip over the bridge. Many procedures/examinations that once were the sole domain of the VG and QE2 are now carried out elsewhere at locations closer to the population. Bayers Lake is just the continuation of sensible policies that should have been implemented long ago. The good news is that the days of blood and urine samples being collected solely at the VG are well behind us, amazing how continuous deficits and an ageing population can force us to improve and rationalise the delivery of healthcare.

[JET]

Originally Posted by Colin May

That is exactly what the Premier announced. The QE2 stays and will be expanded.
I understand Kentville is now the place for knee surgery. Obviously the province doesn't want to spend a pile of money when rational use of existing facilities is a cheaper and more effective answer to our problem. Peninsula hotels have made a pile of money from selling rooms to patients who have to travel in for early morning minor procedures and expecting older people to just accept the risk and burden of travelling to Halifax is mean spirited. Day surgery/examination starts at 8 a.m. The couple killed on the 103 were travelling in for the dialysis of the retired man - 3 trips a week.
The only way to properly understand the issue is to view Google earth and see where the population is now and where it will be over the next 2 decades. If you live in Clayton Park you will arrive at Bayers Lake well before the VG or the QE2. And read the Regional Plan - Bedford, Bedford west and MSVU are the long term drivers of population growth.
I had a colonoscopy in January - at Cobequid. Previous procedures were at the VG. I get to Cobequid just as quick as the VG and without crossing the bridge.
They told me they would see me in 5 years. I needed a heart monitor, so off to the VG and try to find parking and then back to the VG next day. I then had an ultrasound at Dartmouth General - no trip over the bridge. Many procedures/examinations that once were the sole domain of the VG and QE2 are now carried out elsewhere at locations closer to the population. Bayers Lake is just the continuation of sensible policies that should have been implemented long ago. The good news is that the days of blood and urine samples being collected solely at the VG are well behind us, amazing how continuous deficits and an ageing population can force us to improve and rationalise the delivery of healthcare.

For the sake of clarity, the QE2 is made up of 10 buildings located on two sites; the VG site, and the Halifax Infirmary site

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by someone123

I don't think the peninsula is losing population, and one major (the biggest?) regional planning goal is to increase the amount of development there in the future to reduce servicing costs and generally make the city work a lot better. It wouldn't be hard to get the peninsula up to 90,000 people or more just by developing underused land. Because of the bridges and population densities the peninsula is quite central.

I think we may need to wait for undercount-corrected 2016 census numbers to accurately compare but the 0009.00 downtown census tract (below the Citadel from around Cornwallis to Sackville) for example went from 1,984 people in 2011 to 2,357 in the 2016 census. This is comparable to the growth happening in the fastest growing suburban parts of Halifax. I am guessing this growth is going to increase from 2016-2021 rather than slow down.

I just added up all the peninsula census tracts, and the growth indicated by the 2016 census was small, but it did grow, by about 300 and some people. I feel as if the peninsula may be overrepresented among areas that were undercounted as well.

More importantly, five years ago, single-family home starts were around 1,000 annually. The last two years they've barely been 400, while peninsula multi-units have spiked, even as the residential vacancy rate has remained low, and in fact is lower on the peninsula than elsewhere. So that indicates accelerating population growth.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

I just added up all the peninsula census tracts, and the growth indicated by the 2016 census was small, but it did grow, by about 300 and some people. I feel as if the peninsula may be overrepresented among areas that were undercounted as well.

I'm not sure how the census tract level data works; it if ever will be corrected or if the data from the last census will be corrected.

Development-wise the peninsula is really two different areas. There's the urban core which is open to development and is attracting lots of development and then there are the stable neighbourhoods which don't see much construction and generally slowly decline in population as household sizes shrink. It doesn't make much sense to add them together.

More importantly, five years ago, single-family home starts were around 1,000 annually. The last two years they've barely been 400, while peninsula multi-units have spiked, even as the residential vacancy rate has remained low, and in fact is lower on the peninsula than elsewhere. So that indicates accelerating population growth.

Major buildings like the Maple are going to have an impact on the numbers downtown. While there was a lot of construction happening during the time when information was being collected for the 2016 census, I'm not sure many of those buildings were occupied yet. I guess the big bump in population will happen in 2017 and 2018, and will show up in the 2021 census. I would not be surprised to see 3,000 or more people living in that downtown tract by 2021 (that is not much more than the rate of growth from 2011-2016). That tract had 1,738 people in 2001, so that is a substantial change.