AB Highway Construction

[milomilo]

If they were to fix anything up there I would have hoped it would be that stupid narrow, sharp turn overpass at 50th ave.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by milomilo

If they were to fix anything up there I would have hoped it would be that stupid narrow, sharp turn overpass at 50th ave.

I originally thought that was what the announcement was for, and then was quite disappointed to find out it was somewhere else. I don't really know what traffic in Leduc is like, but is another airport access that badly needed?

This kind of reminds me of the Deerfoot widening announcement. It's something that seems conjured out of thin air without fixing the real problems in the area.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

I originally thought that was what the announcement was for, and then was quite disappointed to find out it was somewhere else. I don't really know what traffic in Leduc is like, but is another airport access that badly needed?

This kind of reminds me of the Deerfoot widening announcement. It's something that seems conjured out of thin air without fixing the real problems in the area.

Yeah I don't get it. The roads it is hooking up to look like piddly little farm/service roads.

[dmuzika]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Personally, I think that only completely new alignment should be tollable. I will give some examples.

Completely new alignment:
TCH Medicine Hat Bypass

Current alignment:
Twinning of Crowsnest Highway outside of towns

Anything that falls under the second category should never be tolled, IMO.

My concern is that this opens the window for the West Ring Road (unconstructed Stoney Trail between Glenmore Trail & 16 Avenue) to be tolled. The toll-free alternate route is Sarcee Trail.

[the.tru.albertan]

Originally Posted by milomilo

None of these would be able to charge a toll high enough to justify their cost - people would just take the extra 5 minutes to avoid the toll since there is no traffic on the existing routes. Thus your hundred million - billion dollar highway is a a waste and doesn't reduce the negative externalities of roads enough to justify its cost. I'd support building bypasses, just it makes no sense to toll them - you want to encourage people to use them, not discourage people.

If you need more money for roads, just fucking tax us more. It's pretty simple. If you want to charge the users of road, it's still simple - increase the road user tax (gas tax). No need for legislation and arbitrary charges on those who happen to have roads built for them last.

No. Because then I fill up with fuel in rural AB, pay the extra tax and then watch the money get spent in Edmonton and Calgary while our central AB infrastructure gets cut and cut again. I'm done watching my taxes go to the big cities while they simultaneously preach for the death of rural Alberta. Sorry to those of you who live there but it's time that rural really starts pushing back.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by the.tru.albertan

No. Because then I fill up with fuel in rural AB, pay the extra tax and then watch the money get spent in Edmonton and Calgary while our central AB infrastructure gets cut and cut again. I'm done watching my taxes go to the big cities while they simultaneously preach for the death of rural Alberta. Sorry to those of you who live there but it's time that rural really starts pushing back.

Fine then, so any new infrastructure you get you want to pay a toll for?

[the.tru.albertan]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Fine then, so any new infrastructure you get you want to pay a toll for?

I don't mind user fees so tolls are fine by me. I have no idea how it would be executed in Alberta tho. But I'm sure it could be done. Whatever it takes to keep my tax dollars out of Edmonton and Calgary.

Build the Howse Pass and toll it. I'd cruise that to BC every time.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by the.tru.albertan

I don't mind user fees so tolls are fine by me. I have no idea how it would be executed in Alberta tho. But I'm sure it could be done. Whatever it takes to keep my tax dollars out of Edmonton and Calgary.

Build the Howse Pass and toll it. I'd cruise that to BC every time.

It's a pretty arbitrary way of charging users. So all the roads that are already built are "free", paid by general taxes, but if you happen to live somewhere a new road is required, you get to pay twice with taxes and a toll for the new road.

What rural road infrastructure is lacking? There's paved roads blanketing the province that are barely used. Calgary and Edmonton get road upgrades because they have tens or hundreds of thousands of vehicles on them.

[Dengler Avenue]

Maybe Alberta can twin 37 between 43 and 15 as an urban-rural compromise. Have fun building those system (complete freeflowing) interchanges with 43, future 2, 28A and 15 though.

[Airboy]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Maybe Alberta can twin 37 between 43 and 15 as an urban-rural compromise. Have fun building those system (complete freeflowing) interchanges with 43, future 2, 28A and 15 though.

I'm all for this.

As someone that drives much of the province, we have a great road system. yes quite a few paved highways. The main highways are lacking, QE2 being the worst.

25 years ago, driving to Cold Lake or St Paul. Or Wainwright I would have only a couple of highways to use. Now, most 600 or 800 series highways are paved.

[milomilo]

I drive a lot too, and used to get wound up about what I feel is lacking. Now though - meh. It's a few extra minutes on top of a drive that is hours long and almost entirely uncongested. If I had to choose, I'd make highway 43 and 1 entirely freeflow with bypasses where needed (Whitecourt, Medicine Hat), but that's only because I use those roads frequently, not because they would necessarily be the best use of funds.

[lubicon]

Originally Posted by dmuzika

My concern is that this opens the window for the West Ring Road (unconstructed Stoney Trail between Glenmore Trail & 16 Avenue) to be tolled. The toll-free alternate route is Sarcee Trail.

Given the road is already under construction this would be highly unlikely.

[the.tru.albertan]

Originally Posted by milomilo

It's a pretty arbitrary way of charging users. So all the roads that are already built are "free", paid by general taxes, but if you happen to live somewhere a new road is required, you get to pay twice with taxes and a toll for the new road.

What rural road infrastructure is lacking? There's paved roads blanketing the province that are barely used. Calgary and Edmonton get road upgrades because they have tens or hundreds of thousands of vehicles on them.

There are numerous shovel ready projects just in the Red Deer area alone that have sat awaiting funding for decades. Some of these ended up on the three year construction plan only to be cut, sometimes more than once. I did a ton of research into this a few years ago. Unfortunately, the forum that had all of that on there is no longer online (C2E). Some of the expansion plans are over a decade overdue.

Road construction in this province is always reactive instead of proactive. It's just dumb.

[dmuzika]

Originally Posted by the.tru.albertan

I don't mind user fees so tolls are fine by me. I have no idea how it would be executed in Alberta tho. But I'm sure it could be done. Whatever it takes to keep my tax dollars out of Edmonton and Calgary.

Build the Howse Pass and toll it. I'd cruise that to BC every time.

That's an idea, but none of the Howse Pass highway missing link would fall under the jurisdiction of Alberta Transportation - it's either Parks Canada (inside Banff National Park) or British Columbia.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by the.tru.albertan

There are numerous shovel ready projects just in the Red Deer area alone that have sat awaiting funding for decades. Some of these ended up on the three year construction plan only to be cut, sometimes more than once. I did a ton of research into this a few years ago. Unfortunately, the forum that had all of that on there is no longer online (C2E). Some of the expansion plans are over a decade overdue.

Road construction in this province is always reactive instead of proactive. It's just dumb.

OK. Do you want all of those roads to be toll roads? Because they have to be paid for somehow. If we are going to have the attitude that we don't want increased taxes in case it gets spent somewhere else, then we'll just end up with no one getting anything.

[the.tru.albertan]

Originally Posted by dmuzika

That's an idea, but none of the Howse Pass highway missing link would fall under the jurisdiction of Alberta Transportation - it's either Parks Canada (inside Banff National Park) or British Columbia.

Yes but it can still be built and tolled tho.

Originally Posted by milomilo

OK. Do you want all of those roads to be toll roads? Because they have to be paid for somehow. If we are going to have the attitude that we don't want increased taxes in case it gets spent somewhere else, then we'll just end up with no one getting anything.

I don't care what method is used. I want the roads built, preferably "x" number of years ago when they were due. But they weren't. Now we are in this situation where the government has no money. Already suffering infrastructure gets punted again. Taxes that I pay here get funneled to Edmonton and Calgary.

Just get them built. Tolled. Not tolled. Doesn't matter. I want them done and done properly.

[milomilo]

Do you have any data to back up that Red Deer is getting less than its fair share? You're getting a $125M extension to 11A, the south end interchange was just an $80M upgrade. 11 out to Rocky is getting twinned, probably some other stuff. Calgary and Edmonton get a lot more spending because they are each 15 times the size, and a lot of the road upgrades are paid for by the cities themselves.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by lubicon

Given the road is already under construction this would be highly unlikely.

Wouldn't even make sense for such a short stretch of road.

[the.tru.albertan]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Do you have any data to back up that Red Deer is getting less than its fair share? You're getting a $125M extension to 11A, the south end interchange was just an $80M upgrade. 11 out to Rocky is getting twinned, probably some other stuff. Calgary and Edmonton get a lot more spending because they are each 15 times the size, and a lot of the road upgrades are paid for by the cities themselves.

$125M extension on 11A? Are you talking the section of 11A from QEII to 2A? Or Northland Drive? The section between QEII and 2A is only in design. Not construction. Plenty of projects are past the design phase but not awarded contract for construction. Northland Drive has been delayed multiple times. Supposed to have been driving on the first phase by now. The Gas Alley interchange was awesome. But that was cut at least once before. It was supposed to be finished construction in 2012. Twinning of 11 is in planning only. There are a lot of projects in this area that are on hold until funding. Money is the only problem.

The only thing this area got was "Frost Heave repairs" lol.

Don't get me wrong, any action for this area is very welcome. But many of these projects have been on somebody's desk for a long time.

I get it, some people want taxes increased on others to fund different programs. What good is that when it just gets funneled to Edmonton and Calgary? Edmonton had the first orbital ring road. Calgary's is progressing. Red Deer can't even get Northland Drive built. Can't even get a short section of 2A twinned.

[the.tru.albertan]

Alberta Transportation is going thru the planning phase for twinning Hwy 11. Their initial plan is calling for 5 roundabouts along Hwy 11. This has raised a few eyebrows. I love roundabouts a lot but I'm unsure. I guess it makes sense given (I think) there is no plan in place to make 11 freeway status. I think it would be better if there were an diamond interchange at 20/11. That costs money tho.

https://www.reddeeradvocate.com/news...intersections/