HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Mountain West


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #12561  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2020, 4:42 PM
TakeFive's Avatar
TakeFive TakeFive is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,989

Graphical representation of where people traveled using the Ride Bend via Bend Source

Public Transit Of The Future?
February 07, 2020 BY LAUREL BRAUNS - Bend Source
Quote:
The program was part of a study by the OSU-Cascades Mobility Lab to see if more people would chose to use a ridesharing system as opposed to a fixed bus route.

The Ride Bend experiment began in partial thanks to the pioneering spirit of Casey Bergh, the Transportation & Sustainability Program Manager at OSU-Cascades who spearheaded the program. The lab collaborates with a variety of public agencies (including Cascades East Transit) to implement and study the latest transportation technology trends.
How's it doing so far?
Quote:
The experiment worked. The data demonstrated that the on-demand version of Ride Bend had more than twice as many riders than the old buses which had run on fixed routes in a similar area. It also saved money: services cost $20,000 less than the total operational cost of running buses on fixed-route schedules, while also expanding the boundaries of the service area.
What about they naysayers?
Quote:
Meanwhile, Streetsblog.org—a news site that reports on how people can reduce their dependence on cars—reports that ridesharing is nothing more than a glorified Dial-A-Ride, and is not as efficient as proponents argue.
Well we know that Streetsbloggers are a rabid bunch of stuck-in-the-mud types. Any other collaborating info for more of a ride-share approach?
Quote:
Susan Shaheen, a professor of civil and environmental engineering at the University of California, Berkeley, authored numerous studies documenting how ridesharing services are part of a larger generational trend and could be the future of public transit. Millennials are moving away from personal car ownership because of the cost as well as the convenience of Uber and Lyft.
Isn't really all about CONTEXT?
Yes, I would think so.
__________________
Cool... Denver has reached puberty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12562  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2020, 6:34 PM
TakeFive's Avatar
TakeFive TakeFive is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,989
2020 Transit Trends: It’s All About the Customer Experience
Jan 06, 2020 By Paul Comfort - Trapeze Group
Quote:
Customer-centricity is the new trend for our industry.

The public transportation business is for the public. It's vital to want to improve your riders' mobility and access to all that life has to offer. To do that, we must allow their needs to become foremost in our minds as we create and recreate our services.

Ridership has declined across most bus services for the first half of this past decade, and many people began to question the relevance of regular public transportation buses to today's rider.
Can we aggregate this or boil it down to the street level?
Quote:
So, other options have sprung up to meet customer demand, such as Uber or Lyft, microtransit, and more.

Customer-centric trends are also popping up when it comes to allowing riders to use their smartphones to plan and pay for trips. This involves changing the primary role of transit agencies from mobility providers (bus, light rail, subway) to mobility aggregators (to include taxis, TNCs, e-rental cars, bikes, scooters, and other private micro-mobility providers) in a new mobility paradigm called Mobility as a Service.
__________________
Cool... Denver has reached puberty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12563  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2020, 8:42 PM
TakeFive's Avatar
TakeFive TakeFive is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,989
As RTD ‘Reimagines’ Itself, Staff Warn ‘There Will Be Winners; There Will Be Losers’
February 12, 2020 By Nathaniel Minor - CPR

I continue to be impressed by Nathaniel's writing on transit. Another good article which is worth the read.

Nathaniel also links to a pdf by RTD which is easy to scroll through and read.
Quote:
• Leverage the experience of nationally-recognized transit
experts and best practices from other transit agencies
This is good so far as it takes RTD off the hot seat by relying on what others who are experts claim. This can also be good or bad depending...

Bus ridership since 2014 has had a rather abysmal ridership performance. Experts tend to drink the same kool-aid that's existed for decades. Following their advice is tantamount to - "Just double the budget so we can do what we want to do". Problem solved; easy peasy.

Edit: One interesting thing I found in the pdf is that rail service operating costs are virtually half as much as metro bus service. Ridership on rail is also virtually half of what metro bus ridership is. Not that it matters but I can't say I understand what all goes into these operating costs figures.
__________________
Cool... Denver has reached puberty.

Last edited by TakeFive; Feb 12, 2020 at 9:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12564  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2020, 8:13 PM
TakeFive's Avatar
TakeFive TakeFive is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,989
__________________
Cool... Denver has reached puberty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12565  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2020, 8:27 PM
mhays mhays is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 18,035
Ridesharing generally pays poverty wages and it's extremely inefficient the bigger/denser an area gets. Good for some users, but for cities a mixed bag at best. (Gotta respond to the lobbyist here.)

Pre-robot, the ride share companies don't have a clear sustainable model anyway.
__________________
"Everyday" as one word means "ordinary."
You probably mean "every day."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12566  
Old Posted Feb 19, 2020, 9:53 PM
TakeFive's Avatar
TakeFive TakeFive is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,989
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays View Post
Ridesharing generally pays poverty wages and it's extremely inefficient the bigger/denser an area gets. Good for some users, but for cities a mixed bag at best. (Gotta respond to the lobbyist here.)

Pre-robot, the ride share companies don't have a clear sustainable model anyway.
Not sure which post you're responding to.

I've posted at length about rideshare so just briefly.

Uber's ride-share business was cash-flow positive in the latest quarter - but not the whole company including autonomous vehicles etc etc.

Experienced drivers make ~$25 an hour or more but say $20-$25 to cover more drivers. It's generally NOT a good full time job except for those who know the game - like anything that's performance based. As much as 80% of rideshare drivers are part-time. For part timers it's a great side-hustle, no different than many who pen articles on a free-lance basis or other types of free lance work. Biggest benefit is no withholding unless you'll make more than the 57.5 cents per mile deduction allowed by the IRS. Second, you can work anytime you want to.

Just for grins, when the recent golf tournament was held in Phoenix, the pros made $5-$6 thousand $'s that week. A Pro is one who has a 'black car' quality vehicle, a commercial license and insurance. He'll fill in with 'black car' rides with the Uber or Lyft apps but where he makes bank is with his own private clientele. The week of the golf tournament they make up to $150 an hour.
__________________
Cool... Denver has reached puberty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12567  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2020, 1:49 AM
mhays mhays is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 18,035
That's the company line, but the internet doesn't agree. This source says $8.55 to $11.77, and that the company has been fined for its $25 figure being fraud.

For a city, it's also a huge problem for traffic, losing some transit riders (without reducing transit costs), and of course not raising people out of poverty except maybe as a second job.
__________________
"Everyday" as one word means "ordinary."
You probably mean "every day."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12568  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2020, 3:05 AM
TakeFive's Avatar
TakeFive TakeFive is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,989
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays View Post
That's the company line, but the internet doesn't agree.
My own personal experience when I drive is $22.50 per hour. The internet is where I've also read about the experience of drivers from Miami to Seattle. So I have no interest in arguing with you when I have 1st hand knowledge of what drivers are reporting all around the country.

Buh bye.
__________________
Cool... Denver has reached puberty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12569  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2020, 4:04 AM
mhays mhays is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 18,035
Large-scale statistical evidence vs. personal anecdotes and the company talking points. That's exactly what we have here.

You've posted how many dozens of times, and you have nothing once statistics enter the discussion?
__________________
"Everyday" as one word means "ordinary."
You probably mean "every day."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12570  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2020, 4:25 AM
TakeFive's Avatar
TakeFive TakeFive is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,989
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays View Post
Large-scale statistical evidence vs. personal anecdotes and the company talking points. That's exactly what we have here.

You've posted how many dozens of times, and you have nothing once statistics enter the discussion?
Fun Dem debate tonight.

I'm familiar with the shtick of some accountant types; I'm familiar with the Union propaganda.

The only thing I care about is what gets transferred into my account and I don't care whether or not you believe my own experience. Again I have no interest in any geeky debates. I live and drive in the real world.
__________________
Cool... Denver has reached puberty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12571  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2020, 7:00 AM
mhays mhays is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 18,035
That's fine, if you don't claim any relevance to average pay. Once you do, anecdotes mean next to nothing.

Find a reputable source that agrees with you. There must be one out there somewhere.
__________________
"Everyday" as one word means "ordinary."
You probably mean "every day."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12572  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2020, 5:20 PM
Sam Hill's Avatar
Sam Hill Sam Hill is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Denver
Posts: 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Again I have no interest in any geeky debates.
Who are you and what did you do with TakeFive?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12573  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2020, 5:45 PM
TakeFive's Avatar
TakeFive TakeFive is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,989
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays View Post
That's fine, if you don't claim any relevance to average pay. Once you do, anecdotes mean next to nothing.

Find a reputable source that agrees with you. There must be one out there somewhere.
The average guy, eh? Nothing very average about the rideshare driver. They run the gamut, seriously.

I've read pages and pages of debate following the passage of AB-5. That's why I'm familiar with the Union propaganda as well as propaganda from their city friends. I'm also familiar with the geeky side from reading all the liberal elites agenda-based propaganda by urbanists which of course is a reputable source... right.

Average guy? What about the average working poor that sees uber/lyft as bit of a life-line. You think they want to see fares double? Have you or your friends ever talked to them? Have you ever given them a ride? You don't even see them; they don't count. There's nothing very average about the Union or urban liberal elites. They all live in their own fantasy world.

Of the roughly 80% of drivers who are part timers the vast majority do not want to be an employee. Neither do the full-timers that know what they're doing.

I'll give you one data set that's well-known. At PHX Sky Harbor, ride-share now does two-thirds of the pickups. The rest are scattered among taxis, various vans or free hotel shuttles, shuttles to the rental car lots etc.

Why do liberals continually want to screw up the free-market where it's working. It's because of their arrogance; they know better what is best for everybody else. Sure they do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hill View Post
Who are you and what did you do with TakeFive?
There's a difference between well-reasoned available information and speculative agenda-based propaganda. Am I guilty of both at times? Probably. What isn't political or subject to opinion? I assume that's where you were going.
__________________
Cool... Denver has reached puberty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12574  
Old Posted Feb 20, 2020, 11:20 PM
mhays mhays is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 18,035
Where did I say "average guy"? Read more slowly, then start over.

Average pay is a topic you brought up, using widely-refuted numbers Uber has actually gotten fined for. I simply refuted it.

Also I've said nothing related to most of your points.

How's this...respond to the point at hand. Try for something that's not just your opinion or company propaganda.
__________________
"Everyday" as one word means "ordinary."
You probably mean "every day."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12575  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2020, 3:25 AM
TakeFive's Avatar
TakeFive TakeFive is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,989
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays View Post
Where did I say "average guy"? Read more slowly, then start over.

Average pay is a topic you brought up, using widely-refuted numbers Uber has actually gotten fined for. I simply refuted it.

Also I've said nothing related to most of your points.

How's this...respond to the point at hand. Try for something that's not just your opinion or company propaganda.
I have no idea what the company propaganda is. I disregard everything that's non-essential so please drop the erroneous assumption that I know or care about that. I like how you just throw things out there; I've noticed you excel at that.

Where did I say anything about average pay? You brought that up; since data is sterile with zero context I merely put a human face on average. One thing I'll apologize for is that I missed your link. My focus was on live streaming the Avalanche hockey game so I missed it.

With respect to the ridester piece it's close enough, however... it's also irrelevant. I wanted to double check experience breakouts so I did a quick google. From Yahoo Finance I found this:
Quote:
“One of the important points is that the average Uber driver lasts on the job for about three months,” Mishel said. “And, the vast majority work very part-time, less than 10 hours a week.
Now that I have some context to work with including the ridester article...

Rideshare is an easy entry job and people assume all they have to do is turn on the app and make lots of money. I'm probably the exception in that before I started I went online and learned the in's and out's, the do's and don'ts. OK so most people don't do that.

There are drivers who hang out at the airport queue playing blackjack for a couple of hours waiting for that one good ride. Some people turn the app on at home waiting for a trip. Some congregate at hot spots and shoot the breeze. You think that's a valid way of measuring earnings per hour? It's accurate from a data aggregation POV but it's also misleading, pointless.

Lots of people use rideshare as a bridge between jobs. While it's not that difficult to make $20 an hour or more it's also not hard to make only $15. They may drive for only a few weeks or months as that is their intention. Recent graduates use rideshare after they've moved cross country to wherever before they find a real job. Not knowing the landscape does make a difference.

Any job takes a few months to get the hang of things. If you can't make a minimum of $15 net of gas expenses then you need to get a real job and I assume that's what happens. Any legitimate measure for rideshare earnings should use drivers who have at least 6 months of experience. Otherwise there's too much noise from clueless or itinerant people included.

The figures I'm using are from experienced drivers who have learned enough to easily make $20 an hour which should be absolute minimum for anyone who wants to keep doing rideshare. $25 an hour is fairly typical for any driver who has gone through the learning curve.
__________________
Cool... Denver has reached puberty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12576  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2020, 4:58 AM
mhays mhays is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 18,035
I'll meet you in the middle. You said "experienced" and I didn't give that enough credit. Also there's a large variance between cities and type of service per my original link. It's possible that we're both right...experienced driver in expensive city vs. national averages.

But it's still poverty wages for most drivers, and bordering on it even at $20-25 in a fairly expensive city. If the internet is correct, (a) there are no benefits, and (b) you have to pay your own SS/M costs. Further, you're risking a lot of expenses not typically counted, like unpaid maintenance and liability. I'd guess that healthcare, vacation time, and employer-paid federal benefits would be worth well over $5/hour in a typical full-time job (even without a retirement plan), so $20-25 would be more like $15-20-equivalent omitting any unpaid costs, and $15 would be more like $10, even before the added risks.
__________________
"Everyday" as one word means "ordinary."
You probably mean "every day."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12577  
Old Posted Feb 21, 2020, 6:10 AM
TakeFive's Avatar
TakeFive TakeFive is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,989
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays View Post
I'll meet you in the middle. You said "experienced" and I didn't give that enough credit. Also there's a large variance between cities and type of service per my original link. It's possible that we're both right...experienced driver in expensive city vs. national averages.

But it's still poverty wages for most drivers, and bordering on it even at $20-25 in a fairly expensive city. If the internet is correct, (a) there are no benefits, and (b) you have to pay your own SS/M costs. Further, you're risking a lot of expenses not typically counted, like unpaid maintenance and liability. I'd guess that healthcare, vacation time, and employer-paid federal benefits would be worth well over $5/hour in a typical full-time job (even without a retirement plan), so $20-25 would be more like $15-20-equivalent omitting any unpaid costs, and $15 would be more like $10, even before the added risks.
We're close.

Look, anybody that can find a nice paying job with good bene's would be crazy not to do so. The sad thing (currently) is there's way too many ants out there - a term we affectionately call rideshare drivers. Too many ants reduces the bonuses offered which can be significant.

It's ideal as a part-time gig. For those like me who are retired or semi- we have our Medicare. Your Gross is your Net unless you're making more than 57.5 cents a mile and then you celebrate. Being able to work whenever is extremely important for most of us.

Consider teachers. Their car(s) is a depreciating asset. Doing rideshare can easily add between a $1,000 to $1,500 a month in free cash. To account for increased maintenance/depreciation, let's say they make $45,000 over three years. From that they have to pay added maintenance and then 'pay back' say $8-$10,000 for the accelerated depreciation (from rideshare) but they also end up with a new car.

For the many who are in between jobs any cash, even at $15 an hour is all they need to pay their bills.
__________________
Cool... Denver has reached puberty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12578  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2020, 11:25 PM
Sam Hill's Avatar
Sam Hill Sam Hill is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Denver
Posts: 665
I wonder if RTD is ever going to recover from COVID. Before this crisis, I was actually considering selling my car once the North line is up and running, since it has a stop fairly close to my work in Commerce City, and I could walk or bike the last mile. Now, I'm just damn grateful to have my own personal car and the idea of getting rid of it seems ludicrous. Even after COVID is long over, I don't see myself getting rid of it. I feel more secure having it.

I fear one of the ways our culture will be changed after this, is that public transportation will be less appealing. The bus was gross enough before coronavirus.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12579  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2020, 1:00 AM
EngiNerd's Avatar
EngiNerd EngiNerd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Englewood, CO
Posts: 1,933
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hill View Post
I wonder if RTD is ever going to recover from COVID. Before this crisis, I was actually considering selling my car once the North line is up and running, since it has a stop fairly close to my work in Commerce City, and I could walk or bike the last mile. Now, I'm just damn grateful to have my own personal car and the idea of getting rid of it seems ludicrous. Even after COVID is long over, I don't see myself getting rid of it. I feel more secure having it.

I fear one of the ways our culture will be changed after this, is that public transportation will be less appealing. The bus was gross enough before coronavirus.
Did SARS affect public transit ridership in Asia during their crisis in the early 2000s? Maybe America is different in this regard, but it would be a good data point.
__________________
"The engineer is the key figure in the material progress of the world. It is his engineering that makes a reality of the potential value of science by translating scientific knowledge into tools, resources, energy and labor to bring them into the service of man. To make contributions of this kind the engineer requires the imagination to visualize the need of society and to appreciate what is possible as well as the technological and broad social age understanding to bring his vision to reality."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12580  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2020, 1:43 PM
Sam Hill's Avatar
Sam Hill Sam Hill is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Denver
Posts: 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by EngiNerd View Post
Did SARS affect public transit ridership in Asia during their crisis in the early 2000s? Maybe America is different in this regard, but it would be a good data point.
I don't know off-hand, but I do know it has been common in recent years for people in many parts of Asia to walk around in public (or on public transit, etc) with medical masks on their faces. I would shake my ethno/western-centric head at such scenes and think it's bizarre behavior and wonder what it would be like to live in a place with such a cold, antisocial culture. I didn't get it.

Anyway, Denver is a sparsely-populated car town, and RTD was already in enough trouble as it was. I wonder how they're ever going to recover and wonder if this pandemic is going to set back the whole urbanism revival.

Last night I parked my car across from a bus stop just as the 10 happened to pull up. I shuttered as I watched a man board and thought out loud, 'Oh my god; that guy's gonna get on that bus!'

I can't be the only one with a changing attitude regarding transit. I'm guessing it's pervasive. Then again, I was always a little grossed out by Denver buses...
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Mountain West
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:50 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.