NEW YORK | 270 Park Ave | 1,389 FT | 57 FLOORS

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by JSsocal

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...kyscraper.html

A good obituary on the building. The last paragraph seems worth repeating:

"And so the destruction of 270 Park Avenue will act out a ruthless architectural Darwinism, which treats buildings as mere financial tools, to be discarded when they become a burden or a constraint. Modernist architects helped formulate that philosophy. Their style can have little claim to reverence, when it cleansed away so much history without sentimentality or nostalgia, and when it fetishized the use of technology that was more easily discarded than repaired. And yet a great building is more than just an envoy from a particular architectural past; it’s a statement that aspiration is worthwhile, that quality has value, that urban life is not just a matter of metrics. If New York can’t distinguish standouts from knockoffs, it doesn’t deserve the next generation of architecture. And then it becomes a disposable city."

Laughable.

And so the destruction of 270 Park Avenue will act out a ruthless architectural Darwinism, which treats buildings as mere financial tools, to be discarded when they become a burden or a constraint.

Yes, I care less about some building that I care about the health of the City itself. To let you people have your way, the city will evolve naturally into a living museum to whatever era you decide should be frozen in time. Would any of you have stood in the way of the demolition of the building that stood before this one?

And yes, like it or not, buildings are financial tools, as is the land they stand on. They're not just there to look pretty. It's why they get built in the first place.

[WonderlandPark2]

This building cycle is nothing short of astonishing. 8 of the top 10 towers in NY will have been built in *just this cycle* wow.

1-Freedom Tower
2-Central Park Tower
3-111 W. 57th
4-One Vanderbilt
5-432 Park
6-30 HY
7-Empire State
8-This Tower
9-B of A
10-45 Broad


and in fact the list can continue down to 14th place


11-3 WTC
12-50 HY
13-9 Dekalb
before we run into a tie at 14
14-Chrysler, NY Times, and 53W53

and that's not counting the less certain towers, other proposals and such

[Eidolon]

^^^
This is only the beginning. While we are still about 15-20 years away from a complete Midtown East/Hudson Yards buildout, the next construction hotspots are the Penn Station area and the Garment District in my opinion. Both of those districts are greatly underutilized, well-served by public transit and filled with outdated, demolition ripe legacy office stock and Gene Kaufman junk that nobody would miss. Throw a proper rezoning into that mix and watch that construction boom leave the current one in the dust.

[chris08876]

^^^^^^

I wonder what the daytime population figure is going to look like in Manhattan on any given weekday after this cycle ends, the next one begins. Let's say like 10 years from now. Many of these office towers are full of 1000's of employees. Plus, the residential towers continue to rise. The area is continuing to get incredibly dense. There was a NYU Wagner study that in 2012 put the daytime population at 4 million. Its rising every day, and 10 years from now, o man... going to be super packed.

I agree with the Penn Station area. The Garment district is ripe for development as many of those older mid rises bite the dust.

The proxies btw to the city like Newark will boom. Newark is a development time-bomb that will explode in activity. I've been saying for years now. Just watch and see!

Its a great time to snatch up properties and invest.

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

THis is a city like no other!!

The gold standard.

[Busy Bee]

I also predict an explosion of bespoke office projects in the outer boroughs, DT Brooklyn of course but also Bushwick, yes Bushwick, and increased projects at BNY and in Red Hook... I suspect interesting things as LIC starts to be built out in Sunnyside and along Queens Blvd... and I think we are going to see things proposed for the S.Bronx that we probably can't even imagine right now...

[Eidolon]

Originally Posted by chris08876

I wonder what the daytime population figure is going to look like in Manhattan on any given weekday after this cycle ends, the next one begins.

4 million for the daytime population 10 years from now might even be lowballing it, 4.5 million is a given if the building boom keeps on trucking, which it will since companies are currently expanding their total square footage even as the usage of office space per employee keeps on getting more and more efficient.

Also, I think something above 5 million is entirely feasible 20 years from now because the large increase in the commuter absorption capacity of transit centers that is currently U/C (like East Side Access) or proposed for construction (Penn Station South, Penn Station Access, Gateway Program, JFK-WTC LIRR) will be augmented even further with the integration of cyber-physical systems into the public transit sphere.

Newark and other Tributary Cities will also be getting in on the action, but they won't be the main engines for growth in the metropolitan region until the latter half of this century.

Originally Posted by chris08876

I agree with the Penn Station area. The Garment district is ripe for development as many of those older mid rises bite the dust.

Some kind of rezoning bonus for the third phase of the 2nd avenue subway seems likely too. A narrow, but high density corridor stretching from 32nd to 57th street and bordered by 1st avenue on one side and 3rd on the other would do wonders for funding the new subway line if a transit bonus similar to the one included in the Midtown East Rezoning was included into the rezoning. Anyway, that rezoning is so far off in the future that it is a more appropriate topic for 2028 than 2018.

[pico44]

A damn shame they aren't replacing one of the many buildings of little merit--some within a block or three. Isn't this Bunshaft?

[Eidolon]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

I also predict an explosion of bespoke office projects in the outer boroughs, DT Brooklyn of course but also Bushwick, yes Bushwick, and increased projects at BNY and in Red Hook... I suspect interesting things as LIC starts to be built out in Sunnyside and along Queens Blvd... and I think we are going to see things proposed for the S.Bronx that we probably can't even imagine right now...

Sunnyside and Redhook are going to be borough defining projects.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Eidolon

^^^
This is only the beginning. While we are still about 15-20 years away from a complete Midtown East/Hudson Yards buildout, the next construction hotspots are the Penn Station area and the Garment District in my opinion. Both of those districts are greatly underutilized, well-served by public transit and filled with outdated, demolition ripe legacy office stock and Gene Kaufman junk that nobody would miss. Throw a proper rezoning into that mix and watch that construction boom leave the current one in the dust.

Well it was bound to happen. While many places are just now building stock, the office space in New York is largely holdovers from the middle of the last century. Partly due to the lack of space to build (if not for the 7 line extension and rezoning of the west side, there would be no Hudson Yards), and the city's own downzoning of the east side in the 60's, as well as no vacant land there. The city could have just rezoned both areas outright, increasing the allowable FAR automatically. But it decided instead that developers must pay for the right to build (knowing they had no other choice) and benefiting the surrounding streets and transit in the process. I'm still waiting on the 15 Penn buildout, and the transit improvements that will come with it. But it was inevitable that New York's office space began to turn over in a big way.

[NYguy]

https://nypost.com/2018/02/27/midtow...ts-air-rights/

By Lois Weiss
February 27, 2018

...JPMorgan Chase is already negotiating with the owners of the Grand Central Terminal air rights and others in the Midtown East rezoning area to buy 700,000 square feet — but at a price closer to $300 per square foot.

The financial giant wants to demolish its headquarters and build a newer, technologically upgraded and taller tower if it can fend off preservationists who are again calling for the former Union Carbide building to be landmarked and left as a museum piece so one day, the stagnant city could say, “We coulda been a contender.”

[10023]

Originally Posted by NYguy

https://nypost.com/2018/02/27/midtow...ts-air-rights/

By Lois Weiss
February 27, 2018

It’s an 800 foot building that was recently upgraded. It’s hardly an inefficient use of real estate.

The real problem here is the tangle of zoning and ownership that makes it easier for JPM to tear it down than to build (very) nearby.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by 10023

It’s an 800 foot building that was recently upgraded. It’s hardly an inefficient use of real estate.

The real problem here is the tangle of zoning and ownership that makes it easier for JPM to tear it down than to build (very) nearby.

Do you really think that Jamie Dimon, or the J.P. Morgan board, are undertaking this Herculean task just so they can look down upon the BofA tower?

They're doing this because they have decided that it is financially prudent for them to construct a new building.

I'll agree with you that the zoning boundaries should be larger, and that the the terms more favorable, because there are worse structures in the nearby vicinity, but we have what we have, which is zoning with terms "x", owners with requirements "y" and buildings with characteristics "mediocre".

[antinimby]

Originally Posted by NYguy

Well it was bound to happen. While many places are just now building stock, the office space in New York is largely holdovers from the middle of the last century. Partly due to the lack of space to build (if not for the 7 line extension and rezoning of the west side, there would be no Hudson Yards), and the city's own downzoning of the east side in the 60's, as well as no vacant land there. The city could have just rezoned both areas outright, increasing the allowable FAR automatically. But it decided instead that developers must pay for the right to build (knowing they had no other choice) and benefiting the surrounding streets and transit in the process. I'm still waiting on the 15 Penn buildout, and the transit improvements that will come with it. But it was inevitable that New York's office space began to turn over in a big way.

I am still amazed at how many low rise sites there are right around the Penn Station area, the other main transit center of Manhattan.

There should be 800-1500 foot buildings all over those sites.

For example, why is there not a tower here or the block across 7th from it: https://www.google.com/maps/place/7+...1d314069?hl=en

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by antinimby

I am still amazed at how many low rise sites there are right around the Penn Station area, the other main transit center of Manhattan.

There should be 800-1500 foot buildings all over those sites.

For example, why is there not a tower here or the block across 7th from it: https://www.google.com/maps/place/7+...1d314069?hl=en

Air rights were transferred to built 1 PP.

But this building, along with the wretched Duane Reade on the other side on 1PP, must go for something much...larger.

[yankeesfan1000]

Once the HY builds out, I imagine the city will rezone the area around Penn, and that's what building owners are waiting for/there aren't enough existing air rights/FAR to build something larger than currently exists. The city has been kicking around the idea for the better part of a decade.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Submariner

Do you really think that Jamie Dimon, or the J.P. Morgan board, are undertaking this Herculean task just so they can look down upon the BofA tower?

They're doing this because they have decided that it is financially prudent for them to construct a new building.

I'm amazed people keep making the "it's usable" argument. As if an upgrade of a 60's era building equates with today's modern construction. And as if somehow Chase is going to sqeeze 15, 000 employees into a building built to house a fraction of that.

Originally Posted by antinimby

I am still amazed at how many low rise sites there are right around the Penn Station area, the other main transit center of Manhattan.

There should be 800-1500 foot buildings all over those sites.

Vornado is key to a lot of that. Roth is always back and forth on development options. They are the biggest landowners in the area. 2 Penn Plaza was considered early on to be the site of an unlinited FAR development, but the Council, particularly the current Queens borough president, wasn't a fan of that idea. Idiots.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by antinimby

I am still amazed at how many low rise sites there are right around the Penn Station area, the other main transit center of Manhattan.
There should be 800-1500 foot buildings all over those sites.

Blame Vornado (billionaire Steve Roth). They own that entire neighborhood, and keep claiming they're about to start a massive rebuilding, but so far, nothing.

Vornado takes FOREVER to build. They sat on the Bloomberg Tower site for 20 years. Once they build, it's quality, but Steve Roth can never make up his mind.

[NYguy]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...oject-proceeds

JPMorgan Signs Lease at 390 Madison as Its HQ Project Proceeds

By David M Levitt
March 1, 2018

JPMorgan Chase & Co. has agreed to a 10-year lease for offices at 390 Madison Ave., a midtown Manhattan office tower that is near the end of a project adding eight floors.

The lease, for 437,000 square feet, or about half the tower’s office space, will give the bank temporary room it can use during the five years it should take to raze and rebuild its headquarters at 270 Park Ave., a block to the west. At 390 Madison, the bank will occupy 16 office floors plus two street-level retail spaces, according to a statement from L&L Holding Co., which is overseeing the project.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Once they build, it's quality, but Steve Roth can never make up his mind.

He probably should soon because he's no spring chicken.

[NYguy]

http://rew-online.com/2018/03/02/jpm...adison-avenue/

JPMorgan Chase leases 16 floors at 390 Madison Avenue

BY KYLE CAMPBELL
MARCH 2, 2018

JPMorgan Chase will occupy more than half the space inside the newly-remassed 390 Madison Avenue while it pursues a new global headquarters.

...L&L Holding Company, in conjunction with Clarion Partners and the New York State Common Retirement Fund, took 390 Madison through a major redevelopment, stripping away 1,500 tons of concrete from the base and paring back floors nine through 12 by 25 percent to add 100,000 s/f of double-height floors to the top of the building, taking it from 24 stories to 32.

Along with the additional floors, the remassing allowed L&L Holding to change the character of the building, increasing ceiling heights, installing a new glass facade for ample light, adding 13 spacious terraces and carving out designated amenity spaces, all with the goal of appealing to a younger workforce.