City Hall | 34m | 8 fl | Complete

[MsMe]

Originally Posted by crhayes

That is impressive, although unfortunately I think it's about $950,000 short lol.

I was surprised too they got that much already. Especially in a recession. When is the date set for when they need all the money for?

[crhayes]

Originally Posted by MsMe

I was surprised too they got that much already. Especially in a recession. When is the date set for when they need all the money for?

Well apparently now they are in talks about locating to a different building downtown (possibly City Center) but if they remain at 71 Main the date for ordering the cladding material is December 12th.

[highwater]

City Hall insiders tell me there is little chance of council reversing it's decision to renovate and remain at 71 Main St at this late stage of the game. It would be a shame if this red herring impacted the effort to renovate 71 Main in a way that we can be proud of. (Full disclosure: I was involved in the rally, I love the City Hall building, and believe it can be an iconic building all Hamiltonians can be proud of someday.)

In the meantime, the effort to clad City Hall in limestone has a facebook page, http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49678044872, and a youtube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxkW8K1bVFM.

These are just pledges at the moment, so if you support City Hall remaining at the HCC, but you still care about the heritage aspects of 71 Main, you can make a pledge and you won't be held to it if by some chance Council does vote to remain in the HCC.

[SteelTown]

Call off City Hall renovation, Bratina says

December 02, 2008
Nicole Macintyre
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/475405

Downtown Councillor Bob Bratina wants to reopen the City Hall renovation debate -- again.

With the economic crisis growing, Bratina believes council could save taxpayers millions if it cancelled the $74-million renovation of City Hall and sold the property.

By his own calculation, Bratina estimates the renovation will cost the city nearly $150 million to finance over the next 20 years. Staying at the City Centre in a lease-to-own deal would only cost upwards of $60 million, he said.

"I think the numbers speak for themselves, don't you?" Bratina said in an e-mail.

But several other councillors say they have little interest in reopening the issue that's already gone through multiple debates and votes.

"Absolutely not," said Councillor Lloyd Ferguson, who is chairing the City Hall renovation committee. "We've picked our path; we need to follow it."

In spring 2007, Mayor Fred Eisenberger asked council to tear down the heritage building and build a new municipal centre. His idea was shot down as council reaffirmed a previous term's decision to renovate.

"You've got to accept the corporate decision and move on," said Ferguson, who supported building new at the time.

Eisenberger said he's not interested in another round of debate.

"I don't even want to go there," he said. "I think we're well past this issue."

Bratina would need to get the support of two-thirds of council to reconsider its last position, which Eisenberger characterized as unlikely.

Last January, Bratina and Councillor Terry Whitehead also floated the idea of selling City Hall, but received little support from council.

This time, Bratina said he has another councillor willing to second his request to look at the numbers. The City Hall site is "prime real estate" that could earn the city several million, Bratina said.

He noted the city could retain the heritage designation on City Hall and encourage its redevelopment with grants.

"The world has changed since the decision was made and that's why I am persisting," Bratina said.

[ryan_mcgreal]

Councillor Bratina just sent this email out to local newsmedia:

Currently our plan to provide the required 400,000 square of office space will cost an estimated 160 million dollars over the next twenty years as opposed to 50 million dollars by staying where we are.

The current plan will require us to borrow several million dollars, and therefore raise taxes significantly.

Remaining at the City Centre would cost about 50 million dollars over 20 years, with no money down, no need to raise taxes and all employees under one roof as opposed to several l (City Hall, Lister Block, plus 140,000 sq ft in other locations)

I'm simply asking that staff review these figures and report to Council. We can then decide what the best course is to take on behalf of tax-payers

[SteelTown]

So is Bratina suggesting to break away from the Lister Block agreement and not purchase the newly renovated building?

[Dundasguy]

Finally, someone is talking sense at city hall.

[drpgq]

Who does Bratina have in mind that would pay reasonable money for City Hall?

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by drpgq

Who does Bratina have in mind that would pay reasonable money for City Hall?

In today's market conditions, I'm betting no one.

[adam]

What about Harry Stinson?

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by adam

What about Harry Stinson?

Well I believe there is a foundation (or space for a foundation) in the back of the building for a tower which would turn the configuration of the building into a 'Y'.

[SteelTown]

City Hall pullout: big bucks

December 04, 2008
Nicole Macintyre
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/476517

If Hamilton backed out of its planned renovation of City Hall, it could be on the hook for millions in penalties.

Councillor Bob Bratina wants the city to investigate cancelling the $74-million project because of the economic downturn. But Joe Rinaldo, acting city manager, cautioned the city has a binding deal with contractors that would cost millions to break.

"It's going to be significant because we've already signed the contract," he said, estimating penalties could exceed $10 million.

The city has already spent $20 million on the renovation, including design and removing asbestos, Rinaldo said.

Bratina wants the city to explore a lease-to-own deal at its temporary location at City Centre. He believes it could save taxpayers millions over 20 years.

But the city has not received an offer from the mall's owners. Bratina said he's estimating the cost would be $50 million, based on multiplying the current rent by 20 years.

Rinaldo said the calculation doesn't factor in renovations over time or the financing cost.

Still, Bratina believes the city would be ahead if it cancelled the project and sold the City Hall site.

The Spectator polled councillors on whether they would support Bratina's request. The majority said they wouldn't.

[SteelTown]

A math problem

Bob Bratina’s proposal to investigate cancelling the City Hall renovation is causing lots of commotion. You’ll recall I wrote a story earlier this week based on Bratina’s figures suggesting the city could save $100 million over 20 years if it canned the projects and bought the City Centre instead.

Many people are questioning if his calculations are correct. At this point, I honestly don’t know.

Fercan sent a letter to council tonight offering a lease-to-own deal for City Centre. They say it’s worth more than $50 million, but don’t name a price. (Fercan paid $3.6 million in 2000 for the former Eaton Centre, which cost $77 million to build.) Bratina says the price tag is about $50 million, but says the city needs to sit down to formally negotiate. He’ll need council’s approval for that talk to happen. From my polling, he doesn’t have the votes.

I can’t say what the cost savings would be because city staff haven’t been able to crunch the numbers. There are several unknowns, like how much the city would need to spend to renovate City Centre over the next couple decades. Plus city staff say $20 million has already been spent on the City Hall renovation. And there would be penalties for cancelling the contract now. All these cost need to be factored into the equation if we want to really know how the options compare.

Staff did prepare this calculation for council today:

ALL NUMBERS ARE FORECAST OVER A FORTY (40) YEAR TERM

Existing Proposal approved by Council - 1) renovate 190,000 square feet at City Hall 2) lease the balance of space indefinitely 3) factor in the capital / operating cost of Lister - Estimated cost is $305 - $330 million over 40 years (range is using 2% and 3% escalation).

Full Lease Proposal - 1) existing downtown leases are $5,000,000 annually for 353,000 square feet (this has been grossed up to 400,000 square feet so there is an apples to apples comparison) 2) no renovation of City Hall 3) no Lister Block purchase - Estimated cost is $340 - $400 million over 40 years (range is using 2% and 3% escalation).

But Bratina, who voiced his frustration with staff today, points out his proposal isn’t to lease, it’s lease to own.

While several councillors say they would support asking staff to collect more information about options, the majority I’ve spoken to aren’t interested in reopening the City Hall debate. Bratina is bringing forward to his motion next week. I’m betting on an interesting debate that’s likely to get personal.



Keep reading if you want to see Fercan’s letter to council.


His Worship Mayor Fred Eisenberger and
All Members of Council for the City of Hamilton
Hamilton, Ontario
L8R 2K3

Dear Mr. Mayor and Members of Council:

We are writing to you as concerned citizens and businessmen in this community which we have grown to love and are proud to be a part of. We have read with interest about the various trials and tribulations with respect to the City’s difficulty in resolving their need for additional floor space accommodations, as well as the need to be fiscally prudent.

As you know, Fercan has provided the City with excellent floor space accommodations for many of your fine city employees within the City Centre (77 James Street North). To that end, we wish to enlighten your Worship and the Members of Council to consider an alternative opportunity which we believe is more advantageous than any other floor space that can be provided by anyone else in the City.

Fercan would like to bring to your attention the merits of the existing City of Hamilton and Fercan Developments Inc. lease and terms. By the City of Hamilton entering into the existing lease you have not only wisely secured long term occupancy at flexible terms, but have also guaranteed a great occupancy rate unmatchable any where in the City of Hamilton. We are hoping the City will extend the same opportunity into the additional space that Fercan has available.

For your consideration, we would respectfully submit the following proposal. We are in the unique position to offer the City of Hamilton a Lease-to-Own opportunity which Council will hopefully embrace as a perfect financial solution to the long term accommodation needs of the City of Hamilton. Moreover, this proposal will result in no additional cost to the taxpayers of this great city. The key features to this proposal include:

A. Lease-to-Own Over $50 Million Asset
Fercan Developments Inc. is interested in offering the City of Hamilton the sale of the City Centre by way of a Head Lease over the next 15 years. As a result, the City of Hamilton would own an asset with a total gross floor area of 475,000 +/- square feet valued at over $50 Million.

B. Floor Space Consolidation
Currently the City of Hamilton is leasing floor space in various locations within the downtown, with an average cost of $22 sq. ft. The City Centre can provide the advantage of an additional 60,000 sq. ft. for immediate occupancy which will instantly translate to a yearly rental cost saving to the City of $1.2 million - $1.5 million, not to mention the added bonus of administrative efficiencies.

C. Existing Revenue Stream
In addition, to savings from floor space consolidation, Fercan Developments Inc. is offering the City of Hamilton their income stream from existing retail and office tenants. This means a revenue stream of $3 million annually to the City of Hamilton.

D. Worry-Free Management
Fercan Developments Inc. will retain management of the City Centre on a worry-free basis for a nominal management fee to be mutually agreed upon.
We are certain that this offering to the City of Hamilton will result in a long-term benefit to the taxpayers of Hamilton. Moreover, this proposal provides Hamiltonians with the opportunity to repatriate the original site of the Clock Tower of City Hall in the hearts and minds of its citizens.

If you wish to pursue this opportunity further, please do not hesitate to contact me personally at your convenience.

Yours very truly,
Italo Ferrari
Fercan Developments Inc.

http://hallmarks.thespec.com/2008/12...lem-.html#more

[Mack297]

Mr Ferrari is simply "clouding the issue with facts!" .....

I wonder if the councillors opposed to Brattina's suggestion will have a ready answer when we see the final bill for the 'Taj Mahal' .. I hope Bob hangs around long enough to say "I told you so.."

By the way ... does anyone remember "Mayor Fred's" election promise that he would only stand for office for one term?

I suspect he wants the 'new' City Hall as his legacy, and i anticipate the following speech ..."After due consideration, and after serious discussions with my family, and realizing that, yes, I did indicate during my previuous campaign that I would only stand for one term , I am pleased to announce that I intend to run ....blah blah blah blah blah ..and so on and so on and so on.."

I hope Brattina doesn't let the negative response from his 'colleagues' turn him off. I think there is some merit in his idea ... perhaps with some minor changes.

Fercan only paid 3.6M bucks for the Eaton Centre ... holy crap!

Anyway ...

Mack

[SteelTown]

Council sidesteps mall plan

December 10, 2008
Nicole Macintyre
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/479664

Forgot about City Mall, council is moving ahead with renovating City Hall.

Downtown Councillor Bob Bratina lost his bid yesterday to have the city reconsider the project because of the economic downturn.

Bratina wanted city staff to negotiate with the owners of City Centre, the city's temporary home, to see if it would be cheaper to buy the mall, instead of fixing City Hall, buying the Lister Block and renting additional space elsewhere.

"If we are in the position to save taxpayers upwards of $100 million ... I hope you will consider it."

But critics challenged Bratina's math and argued it's too late to stop the City Hall project.

"This is a lawyer's dream and a taxpayers' nightmare," said Councillor Sam Merulla.

Though Bratina suggested the city could buy the former Eaton Centre for $50 million, staff noted the figure didn't include the cost of renovating the building to make it suitable for a permanent municipal centre. City Centre is assessed at $13 million and its owner is appealing the value.

The city has already invested at least $15 million in the City Hall renovations and would pay penalties to withdraw from the contract.

If council wants to know the exact cost of Bratina's proposal versus the current plan, it would need to hire consultants to study the mall's condition, said Gerry David, senior director of capital planning and implementation.

He estimated the reports would cost upwards of $150,000 and could take eight weeks to complete.

The cost turned off several councillors who originally said they wouldn't mind supporting Bratina's idea simply to get the information back.

"We should be able to defend our decision as a council," said Councillor Brad Clark, who later noted he couldn't justify the expense. "We can't get that information without spending a whack of money."

Only three councillors (David Mitchell, Margaret McCarthy and Scott Duvall) supported Bratina.

Duvall said he believes council owes it to the public to find out if the proposal has merit.

But Councillor Maria Pearson worried council is sending "mixed messages to the public" by continuing to debate projects like City Hall and the Lister Block.

"Decisions have been made ... Let's move on."

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Though Bratina suggested the city could buy the former Eaton Centre for $50 million, staff noted the figure didn't include the cost of renovating the building to make it suitable for a permanent municipal centre. City Centre is assessed at $13 million and its owner is appealing the value.

It's worth noting, and reporting (hint Spectator), the City Centre was assessed at $8.5M, in 2007 and increased to $13M in 2008.

I'm guessing the $4.5M assessment increase is due to the City moving it's offices into the City Centre, and filling what was previously empty space. The fact that $5.3M of the 2008 assessment is 'exempt' would confirm this fact.

[Dundasguy]

I think Brattina is on to something here. The city can stay there for the next 10 years on a lease to own and have the asset disposed of in 2019. The Eaton Centre has been a failure since it opened and will never become the retail gem it was intended to be.

I think they should buy it and sell it in 10 years for a demolition to make way for a nice mixed use development. Take the proceeds from the sale and use it to build a new city hall.

[Jon Dalton]

Another epic fail:

December 10th, 2008
As you know, following City Council’s decision to utilize concrete cladding, we received a passionate community response in support of limestone with over $55,000 pledged from over 100 individuals like yourself. Contributions ranged from $65 for one square foot to $25,000 from one individual, with many folks pledging in the $400-700 range.
We’ve also received many comments over the past three weeks about the importance of our seat of government, Hamilton City Hall. You’ve shared many personal stories about your relationship with the building and its stellar architecture, not the least of which from City Hall architect Stanley Roscoe’s wife Joan, and the granddaughter of the company that constructed the building, Mary Louise Pigott.
Unfortunately, we are writing today to say that we have been unable to raise the amount necessary to make the move away from concrete to limestone. In launching this campaign we committed to a December 10 deadline in respecting City Council’s project timelines designed for re-occupation of the building in summer, 2010.
City Hall is a designated heritage building and while the marble/natural stone cladding is not being reproduced, we can confirm that the heritage features within City Hall will be completely protected, and the outside mosaics re-pointed. Plans are underway to look at a more people-friendly forecourt.
We would like to offer you our heartfelt thanks for the very generous pledges that you provided. Special thanks to Barbara Shackleton who provided her plentiful technical skills and Hamiltonians passion to Councillor McHattie’s YouTube video on the subject.
Our community is at its best when it comes together, and there is no doubt that your pledges to clad City Hall in limestone are a case in point. Your efforts are inspirational and bode well for the future of our city, a future that must pay homage to our extensive cultural heritage and the importance of beauty and aesthetics.
Yours truly,
Brian McHattie
Ward 1 Councillor
Fred Eisenberger
Mayor

This time, on the part of the majority of citizens of Hamilton.

I was listening to CHML yesterday and they had this really easy trivia question to win some crap. It was multiple choice with 4 answers and I listened as 3 people called in with a different wrong answer and the fourth won by default. They would probably get the same success rate if they asked people where City Hall is.

[adam]

And yet they are spending $60,000.00 to speed up traffic during rush-hour on James and John.....? Let me guess, so they can spend more time buying flat-screens with a 2-3 year lifespan and watch America's Biggest Loser and similar garbage. Well, I guess its true what they say: garbage in, garbage out.

[SteelTown]

Sad that we'll end up with concrete facade now. Eck