400 Coventry Rd | 62-98m | 7 towers, 18-30f | Proposed

[GeoNerd]

Groupe Oradev Inc. from Montreal has purchased the Enbridge Gas site on Coventry Road and has submitted zoning by-law and official plan applications for seven towers.


https://devapps.ottawa.ca/en/applica...2-0010/details

[SL123]

Can they really fit seven towers on that lot.

[rocketphish]

Groupe Oradev intends to intensify the subject property by removing the existing structures, surface parking lot, and aggregate storage and replace this with a mixed-use community of seven (7) high-rise buildings consisting of residential and commercial uses, underground parking as well as a new public park with frontage onto a new east-west public road. The resulting development will divide the site into two blocks with the east-west public road separating the northern block from the southern block. The northern block is planned to be developed with three (3) high-rise buildings of 18 to 25 stories, a commercial podium, ground-oriented units, underground parking and a 2,030 square metre public park. The southern block will consist of four (4) residential use towers ranging from 23 to 30 stories in height, a residential use podium, surface and underground parking, outdoor amenity areas, as well as a required Ministry of Transportation (MTO) buffer along the abutting Provincial Highway 417 to the south.

The resulting development will provide approximately 1,700 residential units, a 2,030 square metre public park, an 18-metre-wide public road with on-street parking and other infrastructure, approximately 1,300 vehicular parking spaces for residential and commercial uses, and 846 residential and 10 commercial bicycle parking spots. Outdoor amenity will be provided within the new parkland, as well at grade in between buildings E1 and D within the northern block, as well as buildings A and B which will form a connection to landscaped spaces along the western edge of the parcel, and the southern MTO buffer. Additional private amenity spaces are expected internally within the buildings, through private balconies and rooftop amenity terraces.

Along the northern edge of the property, a single storey podium is proposed to house commercial/retail uses that are expected to animate frontage along Coventry Road. Internal to the site, ground-oriented units are contemplated along the base of the podium for towers within the northern block, and a three (3) storey podium is provided at the base of building C2 where ground-oriented units are contemplated in the south block.

In addition to the Official Plan, the site is within the Tremblay, St. Laurent and Cyrville Secondary Plan, which permits heights of 30 storeys in the southern half of the lot, and 20 storeys in the northern half. The development proposes heights of 23, 27 and 30 storeys in the southern block and 18, 20 and 25 storeys in the northern block. As proposed, the 25-storey building (building D) is greater than the permitted 20-storeys as per the Secondary Plan, triggering the need for an Official Plan Amendment.

Architect: NEUF Architects


Development application:
https://devapps.ottawa.ca/en/applica...2-0010/details


Location:






Siteplan:




Additional renderings:

[Harley613]

Knee Jerk Reaction before any real thought:

*Neuf is getting into the white panelling/interesting facade game now? Is CharcWart on it's way out for real?!?

*Why not have a larger variety in height, including a couple of towers that are significantly taller, and not jamming the lot with typical Ottawa stumps. There's hardly anyone around to complain about it. TOD like this in the GTA would have 40-50 story buildings and that would just be normal. I'd rather see a lot like this midrises around the perimeter and two tall towers in the back corner.

*Why are there still a million empty lots in Centretown while we have tens of thousands of highrise units being proposed in these TOD's? Why isn't there more demand to live in the core, while developers are inducing all of this demand to live in the middle of weird spots in industrial zones like here and the Neilson Dairy lands on Carling?

[Williamoforange]

Originally Posted by Harley613

*Why are there still a million empty lots in Centretown while we have tens of thousands of highrise units being proposed in these TOD's? Why isn't there more demand to live in the core, while developers are inducing all of this demand to live in the middle of weird spots in industrial zones like here and the Neilson Dairy lands on Carling?

The simple answer is nimbyism, nimbyism baked into Ottawa planning process & its zoning.

These TOD sites have little to no nearby neighbours, and if thats an issue they have a provincial & city backed official plan that states High-rise near transit stations is acceptable (and are not limited to 27 stories).

The core outside of near transit has basically the exact opposite. Just look at the accepted Centretown CDP, Chapter 7 page 113. Now the document is basically unenforceable but it still creates risk & headaches. Bank on majority limited to 9 stories, side streets limited to 5. The only time it gets above 16 the lot is either already occupied by a rental towers or next to a highway.

https://ottawa.ca/en/centretown-community-design-plan

[bartlebooth]

Originally Posted by Williamoforange

The simple answer is nimbyism, nimbyism baked into Ottawa planning process & its zoning.

These TOD sites have little to no nearby neighbours, and if thats an issue they have a provincial & city backed official plan that states High-rise near transit stations is acceptable (and are not limited to 27 stories).

The core outside of near transit has basically the exact opposite. Just look at the accepted Centretown CDP, Chapter 7 page 113. Now the document is basically unenforceable but it still creates risk & headaches. Bank on majority limited to 9 stories, side streets limited to 5. The only time it gets above 16 the lot is either already occupied by a rental towers or next to a highway.

https://ottawa.ca/en/centretown-community-design-plan

I would imagine it has more to do with the fact that big parcels of land somewhat close to the core, able to accommodate multiple large buildings, and along major transportation lines can be acquired from a single property owner relatively cheaply. I think that answer is much more simple. These opportunities don't exist in Centretown.

[Ottawacurious]

I've been trying to figure out how the max heights we are seeing are due to the economics of it.

This might speak to it a bit further:
https://buildingtheskyline.org/skyscraper-height-iv/
There's a formula of sorts.

Thought this also interesting "The economic theory of skyscrapers says that the profit maximizing developer keeps adding floors until the revenue of the last floor just equals the cost of providing it. One floor less means leaving money on the table since the revenue from another floor will be greater than the cost. Building one floor above the profit maximizing height means losing money since the cost of the last floor was greater than the revenue is generates."

He then goes into how each city and location in each city has a tipping point for profitibality vs the number of floors. He also gets into the reasons why higher stories (ie the 51st floor) cost more to build than ie. the 42nd floor.

I'd love to see 60+ stories and am trying to figure out where the economics would make sense in ottawa. Anyway, this is related to why so many buildings on the lot but not more height.

[Uhuniau]

"600 metres from transit".

It's 1.15 km in the real world, a little less if you can handle stairs.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

"600 metres from transit".

It's 1.15 km in the real world, a little less if you can handle stairs.

No, it's not. From the farthest corner of the site (NW corner), using Belfast and Tremblay, it is 975m.

From the intersection of the proposed new east-west road and Belfast, it is 760m.

Everyone's measurements may differ a bit, but 1.15m is the long way around. I assume you measured the distance taking the Max Keeping Bridge?

[vtecyo]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

No, it's not. From the farthest corner of the site (NW corner), using Belfast and Tremblay, it is 975m.

From the intersection of the proposed new east-west road and Belfast, it is 760m.

Everyone's measurements may differ a bit, but 1.15m is the long way around. I assume you measured the distance taking the Max Keeping Bridge?

Taking a few shortcuts across lawns and parking lots it's only ~820m to St Laurent station from the proposed new e/w road, although the last bit is on a service road with no sidewalk. Certainly a much less desirable route - but if you're going east anyway it's also about a 10min walk.

It's shame the approaches to St Laurent Station from outside the mall are so miserable, while Tremblay has actual sidewalks and separated paths.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Harley613

Knee Jerk Reaction before any real thought:

*Neuf is getting into the white panelling/interesting facade game now? Is CharcWart on it's way out for real?!?

*Why not have a larger variety in height, including a couple of towers that are significantly taller, and not jamming the lot with typical Ottawa stumps. There's hardly anyone around to complain about it. TOD like this in the GTA would have 40-50 story buildings and that would just be normal. I'd rather see a lot like this midrises around the perimeter and two tall towers in the back corner.

*Why are there still a million empty lots in Centretown while we have tens of thousands of highrise units being proposed in these TOD's? Why isn't there more demand to live in the core, while developers are inducing all of this demand to live in the middle of weird spots in industrial zones like here and the Neilson Dairy lands on Carling?

*Neuf has been doing some decent work in Ottawa recently. Like, by Ottawa standards. This one, their proposed Zibi tower, the one near Bell Street, Rideau Centre...

*I agree, I would have preferred mid-rises on Coventry and taller towers (35-45) near the Queensway. I understand Ottawacurious' reasoning, but then why are they building 40, 50, 60+ in Waterloo, Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton... but not Ottawa. What is it about Ottawa and capping most towers at 30 floors with relatively basic (or straight up bad) designs?

*As per bartlebooth, I think it comes down to cost. Land along the eastern stretch of the Confederation Line is far cheaper than Downtown. More profits to be made.

[Ottawacurious]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

*I agree, I would have preferred mid-rises on Coventry and taller towers (35-45) near the Queensway. I understand Ottawacurious' reasoning, but then why are they building 40, 50, 60+ in Waterloo, Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton... but not Ottawa. What is it about Ottawa and capping most towers at 30 floors with relatively basic (or straight up bad) designs?

I'm thinking it comes down to that formula:

"The economic height of a structure is the one that makes the most sense in terms of best balancing the demand for height with the costs of providing it. If we did some economic modeling, what pops out is an equation for the optimal building height (based on some simplifying assumptions). Though one can find a more detailed treatment here, the bottom line is that this equation can be given in a simplified form:

Economic Height = (Market Price Per Floor)/(Construction Costs Index Value)

Or for simplicity:

H=P/C.

That is, the economic height is given by the market price per floor, P, relative to a measure of construction costs, C, which includes the prices of materials and labor, and the efficiency of the construction operation.[1] We can observe from the equation that, all else equal, the lower the value of C, the taller a building will be in a given city at a given time."

He explains further in the article that the economic height varies by city. Why is ottawa lower than montreal or Toronto? He indirectly explains that too. It seems logical but someone in the industry with an estimating background would be able to provide better insight. Anybody know anybody? again, I'm just trying to find a reason for the tabletop too.

[OTSkyline]

That's a lot of density but nice to see the proposal, not sure if the design is just a placeholder, so won't comment too much on that. Agreed a bit more variety in the heights would be appreciated (vs. recreating the CBD tabletop canyon again).

I thought the walk to Tremblay LRT station would be horrible (having to loop around the baseball parking lot to get to the footbridge), but forgot they can just cross Belfast and take Tremblay to the station. Says about 800m, so not totally aweful.

Not a great area as-is today (lots of empty lots, parking, light industrial) but this, the other proposal across the highway) and more projects to come will make it a nicer, more lively residential node in the future. Nice to finally see some progress and TOD at Tremblay (which up until now has been left largely untouched).

[phil235]

Originally Posted by OTSkyline

I thought the walk to Tremblay LRT station would be horrible (having to loop around the baseball parking lot to get to the footbridge), but forgot they can just cross Belfast and take Tremblay to the station. Says about 800m, so not totally aweful.

Definitely not horrible. From the part of the project that is fronting on Coventry, you would likely just walk down Coventry (which, for what it is, isn't too bad at all now that they have put in bike paths) and then take the newish MUP down beside the stadium to the pedestrian bridge. A bit longer, but a much better walk in my opinion.

[J.OT13]

Hoping this development could accommodate urban format Canadian Tire and Best Buy so we can redevelop those next.

[rocketphish]

Updated designs, and lots of new details here:


The proposed development seeks to develop the lands into three (3) total blocks, consisting of seven (7) total high-rise buildings organized into a northern mixed-us block, a southern residential block, and a park block divided by new east-west road. When completed the development will create a total of 1,768 total residential dwelling units with approximately 1,500 square meters of commercial-retail space at grade along Coventry Road, and a 2,021 square meter new public park with frontage on the new proposed public road.

Site Plan Control:
https://devapps.ottawa.ca/en/applica...3-0079/details

[Harley613]

I still like the design, but the tallest tower has dropped all the way down to 30fl/98m, and the whole project has become a tabletop. With all of those units and towers, I wonder why they would flatten it all out so much.

[originalmuffins]

Originally Posted by Harley613

I still like the design, but the tallest tower has dropped all the way down to 30fl/98m, and the whole project has become a tabletop. With all of those units and towers, I wonder why they would flatten it all out so much.

I agree, I wish there was a bit more height variation. The towers themselves have a good design, but its so table top. I hate that because it's adding a tabletop beside St. Laurent which is beside an important LRT station.. a bit more ambition on variation / increase would be good. Even if the tallest was bumped to 33 and the two 27 alter their heights (move one down to 25 and then keep the one at 27), that would be better off. Just rounds it out better.

[Kitchissippi]

I have a sneaking suspicion that giant spiders live on two of those towers

[harls]

Charming.