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  #5541  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 6:39 PM
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Eh...no. Vaccinated people should wear them indoors because most places still require them and thus we should respect these rules as long as they are in place but no way should we facilitate this little social engineering game of cultural acceptance. They are a necessity for the time being and that's all they are.
Unless we tattoo "vaccinated" on peoples' foreheads I agree with the Times that vaccinated people should play along with "the decent thing" until everyone has had the opportunity they have had. And once given that opportunity, hopefully most people will do "the decent thing" and get the shot. Because otherwise we will continue to have to assume the person next to us in line or having a "close conversation" is unvaccinated and potentially infectious and treat them as such if we want to do everything we can reasonably do to avoid infection.

Yes, I know the risk is small if you yourself are vaccinated. But you and people like you evidently find masks far more of an issue than I do. I've worn them when in the presence of infection for 50 years on the job. No big thing.
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  #5542  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 8:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
Unless we tattoo "vaccinated" on peoples' foreheads I agree with the Times that vaccinated people should play along with "the decent thing" until everyone has had the opportunity they have had. And once given that opportunity, hopefully most people will do "the decent thing" and get the shot. Because otherwise we will continue to have to assume the person next to us in line or having a "close conversation" is unvaccinated and potentially infectious and treat them as such if we want to do everything we can reasonably do to avoid infection.

Yes, I know the risk is small if you yourself are vaccinated. But you and people like you evidently find masks far more of an issue than I do. I've worn them when in the presence of infection for 50 years on the job. No big thing.

Why would you assume an unmasked person is unvaccinated when over 50% of Americans have had at least one shot?

Pedestrian, you appear to have placed Covid and whatever restrictions our governmental overlords (to include random NYT reporters) have decided as your new religion man.

You also constantly seem to think that everyone should think and act like you. Why would I act like someone who is 65+? Why would I act like someone who isn't vaccinated? It makes zero sense..

The longer we go through this pandemic the more the "TRUST SCIENCE" people become the conspiracy theorist and the rest of us become normal lol
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  #5543  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 8:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
Why would you assume an unmasked person is unvaccinated when over 50% of Americans have had at least one shot?
Seems like a safe bet to me. I'd bet there's an extremely high correlation between anti-maskers and the anti-vaccine crowd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Eh...no. Vaccinated people should wear them indoors because most places still require them and thus we should respect these rules as long as they are in place but no way should we facilitate this little social engineering game of cultural acceptance. They are a necessity for the time being and that's all they are.

I agree. The criteria for mask mandates should be based on objective measures related to the pandemic, and not based on setting an example. It's the same reason why it's dumb for states to drop mask mandates prematurely.
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  #5544  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
Why would you assume an unmasked person is unvaccinated when over 50% of Americans have had at least one shot?

Pedestrian, you appear to have placed Covid and whatever restrictions our governmental overlords (to include random NYT reporters) have decided as your new religion man.

You also constantly seem to think that everyone should think and act like you. Why would I act like someone who is 65+? Why would I act like someone who isn't vaccinated? It makes zero sense..

The longer we go through this pandemic the more the "TRUST SCIENCE" people become the conspiracy theorist and the rest of us become normal lol
I think it is pretty safe to assume that the person not wanting to wear a mask indoors and making a stink about it is more likely to be the person who is not vaccinated and won't get vaccinated and thinks they're young and/or healthy and invincible to covid. They likely don't care if they happen to infect others and probably claim covid is still a hoax.

Most people who have gotten vaccinated are probably okay with still wearing a mask indoors because it really isn't a big deal. Most understand in this Country dumb asses are going to pretend it is a big deal and their freedoms have been violated at the thought that they still have to wear a mask indoors and will use the "I have been vaccinated" as an excuse not to wear one when they indeed have not been vaccinated. So it probably is good to keep wearing them inside for all until enough people have been vaccinated that it is no longer an issue.

We're probably only talking a couple more months at most... that is unless this out of control situation in India doesn't create a super variant...
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  #5545  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 10:18 PM
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From the Los Angeles Times:

California’s massive UC and Cal State systems plan to require COVID-19 vaccinations this fall


Alex Harris, right, waits in line with a friend for COVID-19 vaccination at Cal State L.A. on April 9. The UC and Cal State systems announced that COVID-19 vaccinations will be required for students and staff.(Al Seib / Los Angeles Times)

By NINA AGRAWAL, TERESA WATANABE, COLLEEN SHALBY
APRIL 22, 2021 1:15 PM PT

The University of California and California State University announced Thursday that they intend to require COVID-19 vaccinations for all students, faculty and staff on campus properties this fall once the Food and Drug Administration gives formal approval to the vaccines and supplies are sufficiently available.

The directive is the largest of its kind in U.S. higher education, affecting more than 1 million members of the two public university systems. More than five dozen colleges nationwide have already announced they will require vaccination for enrollment this fall, including Claremont McKenna and Harvey Mudd in Claremont.

But UC and Cal State have not yet taken that step because of questions over the legality of requiring vaccines before they have been formally approved by the FDA. Currently, the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines are being distributed under emergency-use authorization, although health experts expect formal approval of at least one of them by the fall. The Johnson & Johnson/Janssen vaccine is on pause due to concerns about blood clots.

As with other mandatory shots for measles, mumps, rubella and chicken pox, the COVID-19 directive would allow for students or employees to seek an exemption based on medical or religious grounds.

“Together, the CSU and UC enroll and employ more than 1 million students and employees across 33 major university campuses, so this is the most comprehensive and consequential university plan for COVID-19 vaccines in the country,” said Cal State Chancellor Joseph I. Castro.

UC President Michael V. Drake, a physician, said that vaccinations are a “key step people can take to protect themselves, their friends and family, and our campus communities while helping bring the pandemic to an end.”

The two system leaders said they were making the announcement now to give students, families and employees ample time to plan their vaccinations before the fall terms begin. They will discuss the immunization plan with students, faculty and labor unions before any implementation.

“The state of California has been a leader in the administration of COVID-19 vaccines, and Californians receiving a vaccine has led to significantly reducing the transmission of COVID-19 in our state,” Castro said. “Continued vigilance will further mitigate the spread of the disease that has radically altered our lives over the past year. We will continue to strongly encourage all members of our respective university communities to receive a COVID-19 vaccination as soon as it is available to them.”

Both UC and Cal State plan for mostly in-person instruction and activities this fall, although the degree will vary by campus.

At Claremont McKenna College, President Hiram Chodosh announced this month that all students would be required to be fully vaccinated before returning to campus this fall. Those unvaccinated — exempted for medical or religious reasons, for instance — would be tested for the coronavirus twice a week. In addition, the campus plans “limited, infrequent, randomized community testing and sequencing to decipher any unexpected risk of resistant variants,” he said.

“It is now clear that a fully vaccinated community is the best way to reduce and eventually eliminate future restrictions on restoring our full in-person experience,” Chodosh said in his message to the campus community.

Vaccines are not required for K-12 schools because they are not yet approved for children under age 16.

In California, COVID-19 transmission and hospitalizations related to the virus are low and vaccinations are on the rise. More than 32% of the state has been fully vaccinated and more than 44% have had at least one dose, according to federal and state data. While those numbers continue to grow, a large chunk of the population has yet to get a shot.

Health experts believe that herd immunity — protection against the virus that occurs when a mass population has reached immunity through infection or vaccination — may be a long way off. But the idea of vaccine passports or requirements for vaccinations within certain spaces, such as school campuses or workplaces, could replicate that concept.

Some experts say that requiring vaccinations for students will make significant headway in containing the pandemic since young people at social gatherings have touched off COVID-19 spikes around USC and UC Berkeley, among other campuses.

While there has been no statewide or federal mandate ordering residents to get any emergency-authorized COVID-19 vaccine, there has been some indication already that a show of proof may be necessary at times. California recently allowed live indoor events and performances to occur for counties in the red, orange or yellow tiers. Evidence of vaccination or a negative COVID-19 test are required for entry.

Link: https://www.latimes.com/california/s...ions-this-fall
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  #5546  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 10:30 PM
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I wholeheartedly support requiring vaccinations to return to Universities

Covid rates are coming down in Illinois. I’m pretty sure it’s the vaccine.

Science and rationality works.

Fear, fear porn, and partisanship masquerading as science doesn’t.
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  #5547  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
I wholeheartedly support requiring vaccinations to return to Universities

Covid rates are coming down in Illinois. I’m pretty sure it’s the vaccine.

Science and rationality works.

Fear, fear porn, and partisanship masquerading as science doesn’t.
I also hope they become necessary to board an airplane too. Either by the airlines or required by countries for international travel. I wouldn't mind it for domestic flights too.
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  #5548  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2021, 11:05 PM
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So crazy watching all this, I can't believe kids still aren't back in school.

I'd say about 1 in 200 people in public places are wearing masks here - restaurants and bars are packed, offices full, public transport back at capacity.

I know we had to cut ourselves off from the world to do it but it's not so bad.
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  #5549  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2021, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Pedestrian View Post
Unless we tattoo "vaccinated" on peoples' foreheads I agree with the Times that vaccinated people should play along with "the decent thing" until everyone has had the opportunity they have had. And once given that opportunity, hopefully most people will do "the decent thing" and get the shot. Because otherwise we will continue to have to assume the person next to us in line or having a "close conversation" is unvaccinated and potentially infectious and treat them as such if we want to do everything we can reasonably do to avoid infection.

Yes, I know the risk is small if you yourself are vaccinated. But you and people like you evidently find masks far more of an issue than I do. I've worn them when in the presence of infection for 50 years on the job. No big thing.
You've worn them for years because you chose to work in medicine so they come with the territory.

Like I said, I wear a mask where required or encouraged which should fall under your 'decent thing' qualification by simply not acting like an entitled child but you (and that NYT Op-Ed) lose me where we should wear them to virtue signal in an attempt normalize them as a new aspect of our culture.
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  #5550  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2021, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by jtown,man View Post
But many will continue to wear their masks outside for virtue signaling. We all know this. It's silly.
While I agree that wearing masks outside is pretty damn silly, I still wear one, but not to virtue signal, it's because everyone else in my neighborhood does so, and I'm scared to be the first one to de-mask and risk my neighbors thinking of me as a self-centered jag-off.

Hopefully with these new official reports of just how silly outdoor mask wearing is most of the time, we'll see a change up here in Lincoln square. I really think we're at the point now where no one wants to be the first one to jump into the pool out of fear of judgement.


Maybe I need to go into the t-shirt business.

It could say:

I think it's stupid to wear this mask outside
but I also don't want you to think I'm a jerk

so here we are


Might be a big seller this summer in chicago.
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  #5551  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2021, 2:16 AM
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While I agree that wearing masks outside is pretty damn silly, I still wear one, but not to virtue signal, it's because everyone else in my neighborhood does so, and I'm scared to be the first one to de-mask and risk my neighbors thinking of me as a self-centered jag-off.
You basically just defined virtue signalling.
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  #5552  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2021, 2:17 AM
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I also hope they become necessary to board an airplane too. Either by the airlines or required by countries for international travel. I wouldn't mind it for domestic flights too.
Permanently? What? Fuck that.
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  #5553  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2021, 2:19 AM
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You basically just defined virtue signalling.
No.

Wearing a mask to show the world how good and virtuous and morally "correct" you are is virtue signaling.

Wearing a mask out of fear of judgement and punishment is not.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Apr 23, 2021 at 2:33 AM.
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  #5554  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2021, 2:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
No.

Wearing a mask to show the world how good and virtuous and morally "correct" you are is virtue signaling.

Wearing a mask out of fear of judgement and punishment is not.
What judgment are you afraid of? That you are not virtuous and morally “correct”.

Ipso facto.
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  #5555  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2021, 2:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
While I agree that wearing masks outside is pretty damn silly, I still wear one, but not to virtue signal, it's because everyone else in my neighborhood does so, and I'm scared to be the first one to de-mask and risk my neighbors thinking of me as a self-centered jag-off.

Hopefully with these new official reports of just how silly outdoor mask wearing is most of the time, we'll see a change up here in Lincoln square. I really think we're at the point now where no one wants to be the first one to jump into the pool out of fear of judgement.


Maybe I need to go into the t-shirt business.

It could say:

I think it's silly to wear this mask outside
but I also don't want you to think I'm a jerk
so here we are


Might be a big seller this summer in chicago.
I've seen most people not wear their masks outside until they're about to pass someone else. Then they'll whip it out and put it on, but I think if you're close with certain neighbors or ones that you're more familiar with, perhaps you can come to an agreement that whenever you run into each other, you can keep your masks in your pockets. Eventually others will start catching on.
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  #5556  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2021, 2:39 AM
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What judgment are you afraid of?
"Did you see the Smiths walking down the street maskless yesterday, all 4 of them?"

"Yeah, I've noticed them a few times now walking around without masks"

"They're definitely not getting invited to little jimmy's birthday party next month."

"Good."


That's a social penalty I'm not willing to incur (especially for the sake of my kids) for being the lone person brave enough to go against the collective psychosis that a mask has to be worn anytime one is outside of the 4 walls of their own home.
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  #5557  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2021, 2:50 AM
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"Did you see the Smiths walking down the street maskless yesterday, all 4 of them?"

"Yeah, I've noticed them a few times now walking around without masks"

"They're definitely not getting invited to little jimmy's birthday party next month."

"Good."


That's a social penalty I'm not willing to incur (especially for the sake of my kids) for being the lone person brave enough to go against the collective psychosis that a mask has to be worn anytime one is outside of the 4 walls of their own home.
And so you are virtue signalling in order to avoid this outcome.

What other purpose could it (virtue signalling) serve?
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  #5558  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2021, 2:50 AM
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I think if you're close with certain neighbors or ones that you're more familiar with, perhaps you can come to an agreement that whenever you run into each other, you can keep your masks in your pockets. Eventually others will start catching on.
Yeah, it's probably time to start putting out feelers to see if I can help jump start the resistance.

If enough people jump into the pool together at the same time, then no one has to be first.

It's why I'm excited to see more official sources come out and say "yeah, wearing a mask outside in the vast majority of situations is pointless". It's gives me something to work with.
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  #5559  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2021, 2:53 AM
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And so you are virtue signalling in order to avoid this outcome.

What other purpose could it (virtue signalling) serve?
Why do you oppose that kind of virtue signaling?
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  #5560  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2021, 2:55 AM
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And so you are virtue signalling in order to avoid this outcome.
vir·tue sig·nal·ing
noun

the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.


Doing something strictly out of fear does not fall under my understanding of it.

Social coercion and virtue signaling are not the same thing.
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Last edited by Steely Dan; Apr 23, 2021 at 3:40 PM.
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