Interprovincial bridge crossing discussion

[waterloowarrior]

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[Kitchissippi]

But it is hard to have a meaningful discussion when the choices have already been narrowed down to one. It then becomes a referendum of whether you are for it or against it.

Personally I feel that there is something wrong with processes where the result is derived by some mathematical formula. Especially if the figures are based on present-day factors that are a result of poor planning in the first place and analyzed in isolation from the bigger picture. The whole transportation issue should be approached from a holistic ideal and all the parts should work towards that ideal. In most large cities, trucking through- routes are usually achieved via a freeway-to-freeway link without having to pass busy intersections with traffic lights. I actually think the Quebec side of this plan is worse and less sustainable than having to sacrifice the Aviation Parkway.

[Kitchissippi]

By the way, speaking of mobs with pitchforks, if anyone is interested in seeing Kettle Island and volunteer some time in cleaning up, check out the Ottawa Riverkeeper event this Saturday, September 27. There will be boat shuttles leaving from both Ottawa and Gatineau.

[Acajack]

If the rumours are true, Ottawa West-Nepean MP John Baird will named Minister of Transport later today, in addition to being given responsbility for the NCC.

As was widely reported in the media recently, he is a supporter of a new bridge at Kettle Island (mainly because he doesn't want a new bridge in his own riding!).

[Cre47]

Looks like another pedestrian-truck fatal collision in the Rideau/King Edward area

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/...3-c1bc300937c8

Full article

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/...f-239e9c7eb0e5

[Cre47]

Now with the problems regarding the Chaudiere Bridge and indications that the weight restrictions will be applied (until further notice) that means all trucks will have to use the McDonald-Cartier Bridge and thus King Edward Avenue. That means more safety risks in that area.

[citizen j]

I used to live a block from King Edward. After years of studying, discussing, planning, more discussion, more planning, another study, some superficial urban cosmetic surgery, and mounting pedestrian deaths/injuries, nothing has been done to get the trucks off that street. Nor will the truck traffic be removed entirely even after the new Interprovincial Bridge opens according to the latest study. I'd be about ready to build some DIY barricades if I still lived in Lowertown. If one bridge isn't enough to get ALL the trucks off King Edward and Rideau, etc., then build two (or three -- since Chaudiere looks like it's ready to fall down). By the time they actually open, they'll already be at capacity.

[waterloowarrior]

final report

Kettle Island best place for a new Ottawa River bridge, NCC says
by Patrick DareJanuary 5, 2009 12:05 PM
OTTAWA — The National Capital Commission’s consultants have confirmed that Kettle Island is the preferred location for a new bridge linking Ontario and Quebec.

The NCC’s consultants, ROCHE-NCE, in September said Kettle Island was the preliminary choice for a bridge aimed at easing inter-provincial traffic and diverting trucks from downtown Ottawa. Today the NCC released the consultant’s final report in the first phase of the bridge project.

This report goes to the board of the NCC in the third week of January for approval.

The commission generated a storm of opposition in the fall when its consultants proposed Kettle Island as the preferred route, since it would be a major disruption to Ottawa residents in the Manor Park-Rockcliffe Park neighbourhoods.

The report includes proposals to widen the roads approaching the bridge in both Gatineau and Ottawa, and building a bridge with long spans of 200 metres over the navigational channel.

The report says the Kettle Island site is the “best balanced” of 12 alternative routes examined. Ottawa politicians in the city’s east end have urged the NCC and its consultants to look at a route farther east, via Lower Duck Island.
© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

[Richard Eade]

A presentation about the bridge report is to be given to a 'Special' meeting of the City's Transportation Committee on January 12, 2009, at 9:30.
http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cit...ndaindex26.htm

[Cre47]

It's so laughable the complaints from Manor Park. I think the biggest issue about the bridge should be for residents along the Mtee Paiement corridor where they should have a better reason to complain then Manor Park. By looking at the article from Le Droit, there is a potential that the homes located on the eastern side of the roadway might have to be expropriated between Maloney and La Verendrye should the bridge gets build at Kettle Island due to the forecast of heavier traffic. I think there is also a vet clinic at Maloney, a strip mall or small commercial building at St-Rene corridor as well and some condos at the La Verendrye intersection as well all on the eastern side of the road. There might be some issues also for commercial space near Highway 50 such aas an Ultramar station. The Home Depot, Wal-Mart, Petro-Canada, Shell and IGA on the western side should be spared.

At the least the people in Manor Park should consider lucky that their homes will not face expropriation unlike what might happen to resident along Mtee Paiement.

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/le-droit/a...e-paiement.php

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Cre47

It's so laughable the complaints from Manor Park. I think the biggest issue about the bridge should be for residents along the Mtee Paiement corridor where they should have a better reason to complain then Manor Park. By looking at the article from Le Droit, there is a potential that the homes located on the eastern side of the roadway might have to be expropriated between Maloney and La Verendrye should the bridge gets build at Kettle Island due to the forecast of heavier traffic. I think there is also a vet clinic at Maloney, a strip mall or small commercial building at St-Rene corridor as well and some condos at the La Verendrye intersection as well all on the eastern side of the road. There might be some issues also for commercial space near Highway 50 such aas an Ultramar station. The Home Depot, Wal-Mart, Petro-Canada, Shell and IGA on the western side should be spared.

At the least the people in Manor Park should consider lucky that their homes will not face expropriation unlike what might happen to resident along Mtee Paiement.

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/le-droit/a...e-paiement.php

Not to be insensitive but most of the houses along the east side of Montée Paiement between Maloney and La Vérendrye wouldn’t be much of an architectural loss. Many (especially between the hydro lines and Maloney) are relatively run-down semi-detached homes built cheaply in the 60s or 70s and most of their owners would probably jump at an opportunity to get some money for them and move into better digs.

Note that De Sylva is only talking about 20 houses or so, which are basically the ones I talked about above.

The housing at the corner of La Vérendrye and Paiement is actually a housing coop rather than a condo area.

In any event, his real concern is about having all that traffic running right outside these people’s front doors. But as I said, this would only be the case for a limited number of houses. Even the housing coop is set back from the road at least *a little* and is an unlikely candidate for expropriation.

And there is next to no chance the businesses on the ast side would be expropriated. In fact, most would probably be pleased would the added business traffic a bridge would bring.

Keep in mind that expropriation here is a quality of life issue, not a road alignment issue. Most of the road as it appears now was only upgraded a year or two ago, precisely with the bridge scenario in mind. So, aside from perhaps the narrow two-lane overpass at the interchange with the 50 that will almost certainly have to be widened, this entire stretch is ready to go from a traffic engineering perspective.

[waterloowarrior]

Council urges NCC to consider Lower Duck Island bridge


BY JAKE RUPERT, THE OTTAWA CITIZENJANUARY 14, 2009 1:01 PM


OTTAWA — City council narrowly voted Wednesday to ask the National Capital Commission to include a possible interprovincial bridge at Lower Duck Island in the next phase of its project aimed at getting another Ottawa River crossing in the city.

However, immediately after the 12 to 11 vote, Orleans Councillor Bob Monette successfully moved to have the decision reconsidered at the next council meeting.

It’s a small victory for people opposed to building a bridge at Kettle Island, which is the NCC’s preferred option, because the city has little control over the project.

ROCHE-NCE, consultants hired by the NCC, recommended Kettle Island for a new bridge after an initial studying of 10 possible crossing points. But after a storm of protest, Lower Duck has become the city’s alternative site for the bridge despite an earlier vote endorsing the Kettle Island option.

Kettle Island is in the Ottawa River north of the Aviation Parkway; Lower Duck Island is further east, north of the Robert O. Pickard sewage-treatment plant. According to the original study plan, the first phase of the consultant's work was meant to choose a single corridor for a new crossing, and then the second phase is supposed to decide how best to build it.

The city’s request, if not overturned, is to have the same detailed work done for both corridors.

The fight, typical of all the efforts over the last 30 years to build a new bridge across the Ottawa River, is a political battle that pits one group against another. Usually it is Ottawa against Gatineau or west end against east end. But this time west-end councillors managed to kill off any attempt to build a new bridge in their backyard for at least 20 years, forcing divided representatives of Ottawa's eastern neighbourhoods to fight it out over which part of the east is the best location for the link.

More than a year ago, a majority of east-end councillors persuaded council to support a bridge at Kettle Island even before the NCC consultant began a study.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

[m0nkyman]

The city’s request, if not overturned, is to have the same detailed work done for both corridors.

Can this city council make any decision and stick to it? You'd almost think they were spending money that wasn't theirs...

[harls]

Originally Posted by Acajack

So, aside from perhaps the narrow two-lane overpass at the interchange with the 50 that will almost certainly have to be widened, this entire stretch is ready to go from a traffic engineering perspective.

I wonder if they plan to build an underpass at Maloney with that rail crossing/future Rapibus line.. with the truck traffic the bridge will generate I can imagine a lot of fists on horns at this intersection.

[waterloowarrior]

they are revisting the vote because jan harder missed the vote (in a car accident, but OK)

[Cre47]

Lower Duck has no chance at all because it will affect even more people then Kettle. The Lorrain Boulevard/Notre Dame Street area is very unsuitable for handling the extra traffic load as Lorrain has two lanes along most of the length with many homes between Notre Dame and Highway 50 including some newly built ones at the intersection of the eastern segment of La Verendrye which will eventually itself be connected to the rest of the route. We are probably talking about hundreds of homes that could be at risk of being torn off because of that. If another option is to widen Maloney Blvd near de l'Aeroprt which could be part of a corridor, it would also affect plenty of residences too and some small businesses because of the widening.

In addition the connection to Hwy 417 would be very poor even if the Ottawa connector would be Blair Road - and then expect an uproar from the very upscale community there north of MTL road. And there is no way they would tore up parts of the Greenbelt for that without fierce opposition if they want to connect with the 417 directly. Otherwise, Orleans commuters might expect mayhem as they would not only have downtown commuters but motorists heading for the 417 east including plenty of trucks.

The second best choice would be Montee Mineault with Tenth Line though an interchange with A-50 would be needed. Tenth Line, at least the portion north of Innes, is ready to accommodate the extra traffic with little if any disruption to resident on both sides. It is still two lanes south of Innes with plenty of new homes being built but plenty of space for widening. There is a slight gap between the end of Tenth Line near Navan and Carlsbad Road which dead ends at the 417 without an interchange and overpass (one is located about less then 1 km on Boundary Road). A new interchange would be needed likely despite the proximity of the other intersection since Carlsbad Springs people would certainly give a thumbs down to an increase of traffic there on their local roads.

You could see a bit of a corridor between Tenth Line and Carlsbad which is I believe the eastern boundary of the Mer Bleue Conservation area. Maybe pass the corridor about 200 m or so east of the conservation's eastern limits. Now there will be some expropriation though on Carlsbad Road and probably a few on Tenth Line though it would be the same then Kettle and certainly much less then Lower Duck though parts of a golf course at the 417 would be affected.

But in conclusion, some homes will likely go at the end but I expect a fierce no from the city of Gatineau for Lower Duck.

[Mille Sabords]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not to be insensitive but most of the houses along the east side of Montée Paiement between Maloney and La Vérendrye wouldn’t be much of an architectural loss. Many (especially between the hydro lines and Maloney) are relatively run-down semi-detached homes built cheaply in the 60s or 70s and most of their owners would probably jump at an opportunity to get some money for them and move into better digs.

Note that De Sylva is only talking about 20 houses or so, which are basically the ones I talked about above.

The housing at the corner of La Vérendrye and Paiement is actually a housing coop rather than a condo area.

In any event, his real concern is about having all that traffic running right outside these people’s front doors. But as I said, this would only be the case for a limited number of houses. Even the housing coop is set back from the road at least *a little* and is an unlikely candidate for expropriation.

And there is next to no chance the businesses on the ast side would be expropriated. In fact, most would probably be pleased would the added business traffic a bridge would bring.

Keep in mind that expropriation here is a quality of life issue, not a road alignment issue. Most of the road as it appears now was only upgraded a year or two ago, precisely with the bridge scenario in mind. So, aside from perhaps the narrow two-lane overpass at the interchange with the 50 that will almost certainly have to be widened, this entire stretch is ready to go from a traffic engineering perspective.

You're totally right Acajack. Not only that, but let's also keep in mind that Gatineau has been reserving the Kettle Island corridor in its planning documents for well over two decades. They even chided Ottawa when other alignments were considered, for Gatineau a Kettle Island bridge has been "in the books" as a done deal for quite some time. While no one wants to repeat another King Edward, I would daresay that I expect Gatineau, in their wisdom, looked at Montée Paiement in its entirety when they chose to designate the Kettle corridor for a bridge and deems it to be the best route. I happen to agree and so it seems does the consultant and a growing majority of Council.

One thing that must be rectified from some of the media on the issue, is that King Edward will somehow continue to have trucks. Not so. The Ottawa Official Plan has a policy that says black on white that as soon as a new trucking bridge is built, Rideau and King Edward will be removed from the interprovincial truck route map. All the consultant has said is that they did not have the mandate to redraw the regional trucking network and their traffic projections assumed no change in the existing routes.

Kettle Island will not only have trucks, it will replace King Edward, make no mistake.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by harls

I wonder if they plan to build an underpass at Maloney with that rail crossing/future Rapibus line.. with the truck traffic the bridge will generate I can imagine a lot of fists on horns at this intersection.

You're right of course, but I've never, ever heard of this being in the cards. Note that the rail line hasn't been used for many months (since the closing of the Domtar plant at the Chaudière Bridge I think), as evidenced by the snow on the tracks that has remained totally undisturbed since late November.

The Rapibus will complicate matters somewhat as you said.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Mille Sabords

One thing that must be rectified from some of the media on the issue, is that King Edward will somehow continue to have trucks. Not so. The Ottawa Official Plan has a policy that says black on white that as soon as a new trucking bridge is built, Rideau and King Edward will be removed from the interprovincial truck route map. All the consultant has said is that they did not have the mandate to redraw the regional trucking network and their traffic projections assumed no change in the existing routes.

Kettle Island will not only have trucks, it will replace King Edward, make no mistake.

Thanks for raising this. So either there has been

1) some media manipulation, which is not entirely impossible since many media outlets in Ottawa are opposed to any new crossing to Gatineau, no matter how bad things get on King Edward

OR

2) a mistake by some reporters who got it wrong and the mistake has taken on a life of its own everywhere, including on this forum

[Aylmer]

Linky

How about this?