General STO News and Rapibus System

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I could understand why they wouldn't want to amalgamate with Ottawa, unless it's absolutely necessary (Québec separates) but I believe that there should be one transit authority in the region.

I don't think any kind of political amalgamation is in the cards.
I also support a single transit authority. And I speak as someone who's been using both bus systems for 5 years.

As for French service on the Ottawa side (or English service on the Gatineau side), I never noticed; I always revert to the default language of the respective province.

Maybe I was spoiled after living in Vanier for seven years. I had little trouble getting French service in many local businesses.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

Is Gatineau paranoid they'll lose all their autonomy if they cooperate with Ottawa on transportation and transit issues?

.

There is a difference between collaborating and merging the two systems. I agree that collaboration has been insufficient and even dismal but I don't think Gatineau is solely to blame. Gatineau may be churlish about its turf and keeping its own prerogatives but Ottawa often has the attitude that Gatineau should simply follow its lead and STFU.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

This may be true but Ottawa-Gatineau is for the most part one economic unit, and one metropolitan area. Ontario and Quebec residents routinely cross the boundary for work and play and we need to plan accordingly. The federal government as the biggest employer and by policy encourages this interaction between the residents of the two cities. The municipal and provincial governments fail to consider the realities of the metropolitan area. This is partly the result of the linguistic divide but also a degree of hostility from nationalist Quebec governments. There is the need for the federal government to show some leadership but from what I observed over the years, Conservative governments tend to neglect this leadership role. As result, there is no consistent ongoing planning of the metropolitan area. It is hit and miss depending on who is in power. This is reflected in the inability to get a new interprovincial bridge off the ground and building a disjointed and incompatible rapid transit network that will never cross the boundary even though this may be the most critical need in the long term. It is a demonstration of failure of the current planning system (especially compared to a similar example in Washington DC), and I believe this failure is getting worse to the point of planning paralysis.

Very good points!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

Isn't the concentration of social housing in Overbrook?

It's in both I think. And much of Overbrook is basically an extension of Vanier anyway.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There is a difference between collaborating and merging the two systems. I agree that collaboration has been insufficient and even dismal but I don't think Gatineau is solely to blame. Gatineau may be churlish about its turf and keeping its own prerogatives but Ottawa often has the attitude that Gatineau should simply follow its lead and STFU.

I'm not going to defend the politicians' approach from either side or level of government as it's been pretty terrible.

At the very least Ottawa & Gatineau could collaborate. I would have strongly supported OC Transpo adopting STO's Multi card but instead we had the province shoving Presto on us.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's in both I think. And much of Overbrook is basically an extension of Vanier anyway.

There is some social housing in Vanier but it's not as concentrated as in Overbrook.

I've had family living in Vanier since at least the 1950's. They NEVER would have admitted that Overbrook was the same neighbourhood!

But yes, today the whole area West of the Rideau river, North of the Queensway and East of Aviation is pretty much one big neighbourhood as they share common transportation issues, school districts, etc...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

Maybe I was spoiled after living in Vanier for seven years. I had little trouble getting French service in many local businesses.

I used to think and say the same thing. (Remember I spent all of my youth in what is today east end Ottawa.)

When I finally had my kids (who, owing to living in Quebec, were basically unilingual French until fairly recently), and actually having more situations where French was essential, it really opened my eyes to how little French service is available in downtown, Vanier, Orleans, etc. I've also had a unilingual French relative live with us for a while and once again - it really becomes clear how few service staff speak French when you're in a situation where defaulting to English (as we always do) is not really an option.

Not saying there is no French service in Ottawa. Of course there is. But the level is surprising low when you consider that it's the capital of the country, that 18% of the city is francophone, and a third of the metro is francophone.

Le Droit has actually run a series recently on French in Ottawa, and one of the articles actually found that French signage and service was actually more easy to find in St-Boniface in Winnipeg than it was in places like Orleans and Vanier.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

And seriously, I cant imagine how Gatineau would ever become a huge swatch of social housing.

.

I didn't mean all of Gatineau being a huge swathe of social housing, but rather huge swathes of Gatineau. There is a nuance there.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I didn't mean all of Gatineau being a huge swathe of social housing, but rather huge swathes of Gatineau. There is a nuance there.

Despite the nuance I still viewed that statement as an exaggeration.

I try to be realistic. I don't foresee Ottawa & Gatineau merging any time soon so I don't foresee Ottawa dumping anything on Gatineau.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I used to think and say the same thing. (Remember I spent all of my youth in what is today east end Ottawa.)

When I finally had my kids (who, owing to living in Quebec, were basically unilingual French until fairly recently), and actually having more situations where French was essential, it really opened my eyes to how little French service is available in downtown, Vanier, Orleans, etc. I've also had a unilingual French relative live with us for a while and once again - it really becomes clear how few service staff speak French when you're in a situation where defaulting to English (as we always do) is not really an option.

Not saying there is no French service in Ottawa. Of course there is. But the level is surprising low when you consider that it's the capital of the country, that 18% of the city is francophone, and a third of the metro is francophone.

Le Droit has actually run a series recently on French in Ottawa, and one of the articles actually found that French signage and service was actually more easy to find in St-Boniface in Winnipeg than it was in places like Orleans and Vanier.

I think one of the many reasons there's a lack of French services in Ottawa is that Gatineau isn't being considered in the equation by many organizations. 18% (Ottawa) vs a third (metro) is a big difference.

Another is despite a third of the metro being francophone and the feds having a significant preference for bilingual employees, many parents still don't get their kids to learn the 2nd language (usually French).

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

That is one huge mistake by residents and governments mostly! And all parties are guilty there.

Agreed. You just have to listen to residents and politicians alike to realize that there needs to be a major attitude adjustment. It almost seems to be matter of pride to neglect interprovincial planning.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I used to think and say the same thing. (Remember I spent all of my youth in what is today east end Ottawa.)

When I finally had my kids (who, owing to living in Quebec, were basically unilingual French until fairly recently), and actually having more situations where French was essential, it really opened my eyes to how little French service is available in downtown, Vanier, Orleans, etc. I've also had a unilingual French relative live with us for a while and once again - it really becomes clear how few service staff speak French when you're in a situation where defaulting to English (as we always do) is not really an option.

Not saying there is no French service in Ottawa. Of course there is. But the level is surprising low when you consider that it's the capital of the country, that 18% of the city is francophone, and a third of the metro is francophone.

Le Droit has actually run a series recently on French in Ottawa, and one of the articles actually found that French signage and service was actually more easy to find in St-Boniface in Winnipeg than it was in places like Orleans and Vanier.

I have said it before that Gatineau has become more French and Ottawa has become more English in recent years. Particularly, the French pockets of Ottawa, Lower Town, Vanier, Orleans and Cyrville have become diluted.

Even though 30% may be francophone, job competition has directed the bilingual work force into public service (at all levels) or jobs on the Quebec side of the river. The Ottawa side of the river has become predominately English and service particularly at the retail level reflects the overwhelming demand. French immersion is popular but Ottawa's population is quite transient and therefore most newcomers to the city will be less likely to be bilingual and many who benefited from French immersion will also leave for other cities. In other words, it is difficult to make real progress in Ottawa's Anglophone population towards becoming bilingual.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I have said it before that Gatineau has become more French and Ottawa has become more English in recent years. Particularly, the French pockets of Ottawa, Lower Town, Vanier, Orleans and Cyrville have become diluted.

Even though 30% may be francophone, job competition has directed the bilingual work force into public service (at all levels) or jobs on the Quebec side of the river. The Ottawa side of the river has become predominately English and service particularly at the retail level reflects the overwhelming demand. French immersion is popular but Ottawa's population is quite transient and therefore most newcomers to the city will be less likely to be bilingual and many who benefited from French immersion will also leave for other cities. In other words, it is difficult to make real progress in Ottawa's Anglophone population towards becoming bilingual.

When it comes to retail it's not that they're trying to meet some demand for English (almost everyone speaks it to an extent) but more likely that there's simply not enough bilingual workers to go around. When the public service gobbles up almost all the educated bilingual workers available there's not much left for other employment sectors to hire.

[waterloowarrior]

I think increasing transportation connections through transit (and more bridges ) can potentially have major impacts on these cultural issues. Ease of access means more potential for personal and business connections. So many of our decisions depend on our perception of ease of access and travel, like where to shop, eat, go for appointments, attend events, or participate in sports. Even things like who we are friends with, where we work, and who we meet and eventually marry are shaped by these factors. Better integration and better connections will change the destiny of our region. I am not sure if it would encourage more francophone culture because of the better connections to Orleans, Vanier, etc or potentially lead to things like more anglophones moving to Quebec for cheaper housing. But I think there are lots of benefits of increased travel and interaction on both sides of the river.

Also, STO needs to get on Google transit directions.

[S-Man]

If the desire to amalgamate transit between the cities was at all possible, it would have been done some time in the past 50 years, by somebody.

I don't see anything happening or anyone coming along at any level of government on either side of the river to change this. Hasn't happened; isn't being discussed seriously.

It will, as it has always been, a pipe dream.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by S-Man

If the desire to amalgamate transit between the cities was at all possible, it would have been done some time in the past 50 years, by somebody.

I don't see anything happening or anyone coming along at any level of government on either side of the river to change this. Hasn't happened; isn't being discussed seriously.

It will, as it has always been, a pipe dream.

That's pretty much it. Two distinct systems with interfaces in the downtowns of each city is what we are going to live with. Guess we should focus on making those interfaces as good as possible.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Another example: St. Louis - at least their LRT - goes between Illinois and Missouri.

St. Louis Metro transit is run by the Bi-State Development Agency, and both buses and the LRT run across state lines. The buses don't even have state specific plates, just ones that say Bi-State Development Agency. The BSDA also runs one of the smaller local airports I believe. It is my opinion that this is one of the better examples of something Ottawa could do, based on the scale and similarities between the systems and how well it works in St. Louis.

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Also, STO needs to get on Google transit directions.

This.

Between no Google Transit, a useless online planner and a mystifying next bus arrival phone system Gatineau is a transit black hole to me.

[harls]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I have said it before that Gatineau has become more French and Ottawa has become more English in recent years.

Aylmer has become more francophone for sure, and I've only been living here for six years.

However, if you go to a grocery store you're more likely to be served in English in this part of town if they detect a hint of anglo in you.

[Cre47]

Service on the corridor will start October 19th. The first weekend will be free. The real test will start on the 21st and we will know if the new hob-and-spoke system will work.

[Ottawan]

Originally Posted by harls

Aylmer has become more francophone for sure, and I've only been living here for six years.

However, if you go to a grocery store you're more likely to be served in English in this part of town if they detect a hint of anglo in you.

Harls - how will I know it's you now that your avatar is not this guy:



I guess I'll just have to rely on your magical mod abilities...