The Great SSP Canada Cancel Culture & Wokeism Thread

[dleung]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Actually, the "genius" of the current woke movement is actually that they have largely divorced socio-economics from the left's most vocal and visible mainstream.

I mean, isn't one of the main examples of the issue with police that affluent white collar professionals from minorities (even if dressed according to mainstream societal norms!) still get stopped or questioned randomly (or worse) for no good reason?

These people arguably cannot be said to have suffered materially due to their race or ethnicity, even if we all agree bad treatment is unacceptable regardless of the victim's social status.

Many, many notable people who are extremely wealthy (way moreso than you and I) have come out as "woke" supporters and denounced the prejudice, etc. that their peers and even they themselves have been subjected to.

While unacceptable as I have already said, these people cannot be said to be hard-done-by materially. Ibram Kendi looks to have had about the same material comforts I had growing up - maybe even slightly better. Just yesterday Madonna posted a semi-hysterical FIGHT THE PATRIARCHY! message on social media. Perhaps she is speaking mostly for others who have no voice, and I know that she did go through some rough patches, but today her net worth is about 1 billion dollars...

...All in all, you are probably still not hard-done-by materially.

When poor minorities get discriminated against, you say "well if I dressed like that, that'll happen to me too".

When they get killed by police who then cover it up by smearing their names, you say "well Breanna Taylor was no angel, because she had an ex boyfriend who sold drugs"

When wealthy minorities show that they aren't immune from being treated as second class citizens, you say "see, racism doesn't harm them materially! Look at these woke elites who don't care about economic equality"

Those minorities overcame a disadvantage.

These whataboutisms are really reaching now!

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

He was a mean old white man. And a despicable racist.


bloximages, bridgemi, wikipedia

As a knowledgeable person and member of the Academy, surely you know that despicable beliefs as those outlined above were standard in the early twentieth century even in polite society. The Jewish conspiracy to control the world was widely accepted as fact. Pogroms in Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia, etc., were so common as to barely even register as newsworthy. Hitler's rhetoric barely even raised an eyebrow.

Thankfully, such beliefs are no longer acceptable, unless of course you're Islamist or a follower of Al Sharpton's or BLM. But then I'm guessing that sort of anti semitism doesn't keep you up nights, does it?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by dleung

When poor minorities get discriminated against, you say "well if I dressed like that, that'll happen to me too".

When they get killed by police who then cover it up by smearing their names, you say "well Breanna Taylor was no angel, because she had an ex boyfriend who sold drugs"

When wealthy minorities show that they aren't immune from being treated as second class citizens, you say "see, racism doesn't harm them materially! Look at these woke elites who don't care about economic equality"

Those minorities overcame a disadvantage.

These whataboutisms are really reaching now!

Still totally incapable of seeing any issue outside of a single lens.

[MolsonExport]

But then I'm guessing that sort of anti semitism doesn't keep you up nights, does it?

I beg your pardon?

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

As a knowledgeable person and member of the Academy, surely you know that despicable beliefs as those outlined above were standard in the early twentieth century even in polite society. The Jewish conspiracy to control the world was widely accepted as fact. Pogroms in Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia, etc., were so common as to barely even register as newsworthy. Hitler's rhetoric barely even raised an eyebrow.

Thankfully, such beliefs are no longer acceptable, unless of course you're Islamist or a follower of Al Sharpton's or BLM. But then I'm guessing that sort of anti semitism doesn't keep you up nights, does it?

You are way out of line with this insinuation. Way out of line.

on what basis do you make this allegation?

And, please let me understand your position: are you suggesting that support for Black Lives Matter is tantamount to supporting antisemitism?

Also, what do you mean by "Islamist"?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Also, what do you mean by "Islamist"?

I seriously doubt you're an Islamist so I understand that you'd recoil at a spurious allegation like that.

Though I am pretty sure you're aware of what the term means.

[MolsonExport]

All those streets renamed over the past 5 decades in Montreal from English to French surnames....is that wokeness or anti-wokeness? I am so confused!

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

Thankfully, such beliefs are no longer acceptable, unless of course you're Islamist or a follower of Al Sharpton's or BLM. But then I'm guessing that sort of anti semitism doesn't keep you up nights, does it?

still standing by, waiting for your explanation.

[someone123]

Questioning the assumption that the Tuskegee study is an ongoing driver of suspicion among African Americans: https://www.kqed.org/news/11861810/n...vid-19-vaccine

I think this is a good example of a nuanced view of what could be considered a "woke" opinion. It is politically acceptable or in some settings even desirable to bring up Tuskegee as an outrageous event and make all sorts of assumptions about its long-term impact; you won't get pushback from talking about how bad Tuskegee was, and it was terrible. But is it really helpful in explaining the actual roadblocks in place in 2021?

I would guess that for the typical African American senior living in California the challenge for vaccines would be better served by making sure that CVS down the street has convenient vaccine appointments rather than attempts to address the collective historical psychological trauma of Tuskegee. But hey, if you're in charge of vaccine delivery, and you're doing a bad job with the rollout...

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

He was a mean old white man. And a despicable racist.


bloximages, bridgemi, wikipedia

I agree. By all accounts he was a POS, though I don't see the significance of noting his race since antisemitism would be a despicable trait no matter which race he belonged to. That said, almost all industrial barons of the time were white guys, so I suppose it goes without saying.

It's an interesting discussion, though, as despite all the negative traits of people like Ford, they did provide employment (though in his eyes, they were just tools he needed to use to get the job done... https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...h=2947ddae766d). One can't overlook his accomplishments in basically creating the blueprint for the modern assembly line, which allowed him to actually decrease the price of his cars as production increased, thus making them affordable to a larger number of people (not to mention the second hand car market that was created as a side effect). https://transportgeography.org/conte...ion-1908-1924/

So, while there is a lot to despise, one can't ignore the benefits created through his actions, even if they weren't necessarily created for anybody's benefit but his own company's.

(BTW, re: your sig... you do realize that "Dave Grohl" quote was not actually a quote by Dave Grohl - it came from a twitter post from a fake Grohl account. I hesitate to mention it, but fake quotes are a pet peeve of mine... )

[MolsonExport]

fake quote (I heard this too) or not, it is extremely fitting.
Sometimes fake quotes are very amusing. Legend has it that when John Lennon was asked whether he thought Ringo was the best drummer in the world, he exclaimed that Ringo wasn't even the best drummer in the Beatles. Apparently he never actually said that, and although I think Ringo was great, the quote is still quite hilarious.

[Architype]

^ But Pete Best wasn't really the best.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

fake quote (I heard this too) or not, it is extremely fitting.
Sometimes fake quotes are very amusing. Legend has it that when John Lennon was asked whether he thought Ringo was the best drummer in the world, he exclaimed that Ringo wasn't even the best drummer in the Beatles. Apparently he never actually said that, and although I think Ringo was great, the quote is still quite hilarious.

I agree that it's a humorous statement, true or not, but quoting Grohl isn't what makes it funny IMHO. For that matter it could be a funny false statement about any rock band you don't like.

As for Nickelback, I don't mind their music (they are far from my favourite band, but OK for the era of their work, which IMHO was fairly dry for musical greatness), but above that it seems weird that they seem to be criticized for their own success, and blamed for other bands riding on their coattails by putting out Nickelback-esque music for financial gain. Meanwhile the band is laughing all the way to the bank.

But... yeah, it would have been a funny quote, if Dave Grohl had said or written it, even though it would seem uncharacteristic for him to trash talk another band in any case.

Sorry for the derail!

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Architype

^ But Pete Best wasn't really the best.

and true!

[MolsonExport]

and the apocryphal John Lennon quotation was in reference to Paul, who was quite a capable (albeit run of the mill) drummer (e.g., he played drums on the Ballad of John and Yoko, and I think, on Birthday)

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

and the apocryphal John Lennon quotation was in reference to Paul, who was quite a capable (albeit run of the mill) drummer (e.g., he played drums on the Ballad of John and Yoko, and I think, on Birthday)

Very interesting. I did not know that!

[esquire]

I spent some time on the highway this past weekend which is something I haven't done a lot of since the summer. I had some time to listen to the radio so I put it on CBC as I normally do. Pretty well everything was about racism, trans rights and these types of hot button woke issues. Not just one or two shows, it's everything.

Basically, CBC Radio One has become unlistenable. In much the same way I stopped listeneing to the local AM talk station (CJOB) in the 2000s when Charles Adler played Rush Limbaugh-wannabe filling the air with right wing claptrap, CBC has moved in the other direction where everything is now about race and gender issues as seen from Toronto (i.e. Indigenous people barely rate mention in the CBC grievance universe).

For the last 20+ years I've defaulted to CBC radio all the time, but I'm sad to say that has come to an end. I'm glad that CBC news (on radio and TV) is still there providing quality programming for the time being.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by esquire

I spent some time on the highway this past weekend which is something I haven't done a lot of since the summer. I had some time to listen to the radio so I put it on CBC as I normally do. Pretty well everything was about racism, trans rights and these types of hot button woke issues. Not just one or two shows, it's everything.

Basically, CBC Radio One has become unlistenable. In much the same way I stopped listeneing to the local AM talk station (CJOB) in the 2000s when Charles Adler played Rush Limbaugh-wannabe filling the air with right wing claptrap, CBC has moved in the other direction where everything is now about race and gender issues as seen from Toronto (i.e. Indigenous people barely rate mention in the CBC grievance universe).

For the last 20+ years I've defaulted to CBC radio all the time, but I'm sad to say that has come to an end. I'm glad that CBC news (on radio and TV) is still there providing quality programming for the time being.

I stopped reading The Star for the same reasons. It's basically Woke central.

[esquire]

There was a time not too long ago when people saying "defund the CBC" would have gotten my back up, my heart would start racing at the mere thought of it and I'd get ready to argue.

Personally, I no longer really care. I mean, I don't want the CBC to be defunded, I'd prefer keeping it. But I no longer feel protective of it. If O'Toole somehow won the election and shut it down it, I'd probably just shrug and move on. It just doesn't mean that much to me anymore.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by esquire

There was a time not too long ago when people saying "defund the CBC" would have gotten my back up, my heart would start racing at the mere thought of it and I'd get ready to argue.

Personally, I no longer really care. I mean, I don't want the CBC to be defunded, I'd prefer keeping it. But I no longer feel protective of it. If O'Toole somehow won the election and shut it down it, I'd probably just shrug and move on. It just doesn't mean that much to me anymore.

I subscribe to a lot of CBC Podcasts, but I find myself lately just deleting the downloads more and more often after I read the preview.

And the latest self-inflicted wounds in the executive suite of NDHQ have made me even more reluctant to listening to woke central.