The Canadian Climate / Ecological Thread

[niwell]

Also a number of the fast growing metros in the US have fairly awful climates despite being on the "warm" side of things. Houston can be pretty insufferable in the summer.

[Skygazer]

Originally Posted by lio45

It's always amusing to me to see someone sum it up like you just did: Canada's best climate is a tie between 1) a rainier, colder version of Seattle and 2) the Midwest, more specifically Detroit, Michigan.

I genuinely don't think they're as bad of climates as they're made out to be, though. Vancouver is definitely too rainy and gloomy in the late fall and winter, but other than that it's a pretty comfortable and liveable climate without any major issues. And although Windsor's winters are definitely a few degrees colder than I'd like, they're still tolerable and not too long lasting (and have longer days and stronger sun than most of the country due to the lower latitude), and the rest of the year is great by my personal standards. It's also one of the sunnier cities in the country.

Most of the rest of Canada's climate is a total write-off, though. I would agree with that.

(But it should be noted that many people, including myself, enjoy four seasons climates - the idea that a year-round warm or mild climate is the best is purely subjective)

Originally Posted by niwell

Also a number of the fast growing metros in the US have fairly awful climates despite being on the "warm" side of things. Houston can be pretty insufferable in the summer.

Yep. Climate selection in North America is a bit of a tricky thing, due to how continental it is. Outside of the west coast it seems like most climates either have comfortable winters with scorching hot and/or humid summers, comfortable summers with long frigid winters, or comfortable summers with very wet gloomy winters... California is the only place I'm aware of in the US/Canada that has both sunny mild winters and comfortable summers. Literally everywhere else on the continent has major drawbacks climate-wise (and even California has some significant drawbacks for my own personal standards).

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lio45

It's always amusing to me to see someone sum it up like you just did: Canada's best climate is a tie between 1) a rainier, colder version of Seattle and 2) the Midwest, more specifically Detroit, Michigan.

When I talk to older friends and relatives on the phone (I don't really have phone conversations with anybody under 50) they always talk about the weather (because that is what Canadians like to do I guess). I find the differences pretty funny; they mirror SSP to some degree.

The Ontario residents think that it is too gloomy in BC and they would never be able to handle living here.

The Nova Scotia comment wistfully on how tropical it is in BC, e.g. we can go to the beach in November. I relay that it's +6, raining, and already dark out at 4:30 pm and it doesn't really sink in.

The people in BC like to talk about how they avoid all of the pain and trauma that they would have had to endure in the rest of the country, as if it is -30 or +30 every day everywhere from the BC/AB border to the Atlantic.

It's been a while but talking to somebody from Quebec (back when I still lived in NS), they'd always ask if we had a lot of snow.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by Doug

Yeah maybe but once one experiences a mild climate it is difficult to imagine living somewhere cold. I've lived 7 years total in Australia and still find the weather novel. I surf or kayak almost everyday, cycle year round, sleep on the deck about half the time, rarely close the windows and seriously got into gardening because anything will grow. We grow almost all of our fruits and vegetables.

A Doug sighting! A rare event. Don't you have to worry about snakes and crocodiles when sleeping outside in Australia?

I lived in Taiwan for six years and got used to never closing the balcony door in our fourth-floor apartment for ten months of the year. I remember thinking, hey, this is cool, but that was the extent of my ruminations on the vagaries of different climates. Probably because I was younger and people didn't complain about the weather on the internet so much back in the 1990s.

I only recall one fleeting climate-related pang of remorse while there, and it was in my first year. It was October, and it was still tropically hot. As I was sitting in a dumpling place (this one, as it happens) the coolness of the air conditioning mimicked so strongly the cool dampness of autumn in the Great Lakes that it triggered a powerful sensory memory in me, and for a moment I imagined it really was fall outside. But it was a trick, and I immediately felt disappointed.

Now I'm older, and I know I gripe way too much in this thread. I guess I resent the fact that this is such a good country in so many respects, yet we don't have a single solitary appealing climate anywhere. It's just a shit show from coast to coast, and that's a bit depressing, to be honest. Americans on the cycling forums I frequent talk about trips to California or Georgia for training in the winter, going down south for some warm cycling trips, etc.

And the Canadians? They say the same thing. We just don't have anywhere to run to in this country. We run to the same places the Americans do.

At least now we're in the good part of the year here, so the foliage is back. There's a palpable excitement in the garden centres as people mull around the various flowers and plants they want to put in their gardens. We've already planted two trees for the reconfiguration of our front garden. Spring brings renewal, and spirits are uplifted because of it. I think I would miss that if I went back to somewhere that isn't so changeable throughout the year.

No pain no gain.

[DrJoe]

I'll try my luck with this here. Anyone what this thing growing in my garden is, is it just a big weed?





Don't let the flower cage fool you. I stuck that there last year when I didn't know what the hell the thing was.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by DrJoe

I'll try my luck with this here. Anyone what this thing growing in my garden is, is it just a big weed?





Don't let the flower cage fool you. I stuck that there last year when I didn't know what the hell the thing was.

Isn't that the Manitoba Maple that lio is always talking about?

[hipster duck]

As a Vancouverite, the things that really get to me about our climate are:

1. Lack of variation in temperature from February - June. It really bothers me that Canada Day could be essentially the same general climate as Valentine's Day, only 8 degrees warmer and with the leaves fully out. I've had to wear a hoodie and a raincoat on Canada Day on numerous occasions when the forecast was 17C/rain. This is almost impossible in Southern Ontario.

2. Crossing the fine line from pleasant to drab in late September - earlier than in other parts of the country. October is definitively worse in BC than it is in southern Ontario and points east. That's because the eastern half of the continent has a seasonal lag in spring but that also leads to a warmer, more pleasant Fall. In Southern Ontario I think this may be moderated to some extent by the Great Lakes dissipating heat, although I'm not sure.

3. Cleaning mildew off my windowsills in poorly ventilated corners. This is something I do every April after the drizzle season starts to go away. Needless to say, I never had to do this in a climate where the winter temperature is typically below freezing.

4. Just how cold a 2C sunny day in December can be. The maritime humidity really chills you to the bone. By contrast, I imagine a 2C day in a dry, prairie city would be very pleasant. I've certainly enjoyed crisp 2C late autumn days in Southern Ontario.

Vancouver's climate alternates between awesome and awful. 2016-2017 was the worst climate I've ever experienced in my life. The combination of a 6 week summer, the rainiest October in memory and wet snowfall that the city was repeatedly not prepared to handle was really not something to relish. On the other hand, the El Nino year of 2015 may go down as the best climate I've lived in. I loved the dry summer heat and the beautiful, warm spring where the cherry blossoms began in late February.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rousseau

At least now we're in the good part of the year here, so the foliage is back. There's a palpable excitement in the garden centres as people mull around the various flowers and plants they want to put in their gardens. We've already planted two trees for the reconfiguration of our front garden. Spring brings renewal, and spirits are uplifted because of it. I think I would miss that if I went back to somewhere that isn't so changeable throughout the year.

No pain no gain.

I think this is an important point. Even the people on this thread who live or who have lived in warm(er) climates have all lived in cold(er) climates for a good portion of their lives. They don't have the same relationship to a warm climate as a lifelong resident of India or Thailand would.

Warm and sunny weather is still "special" to SSP Canada people, no matter where they live.

Canada is Spring Fever central with people going a bit crazy after the long winter. Everywhere that is outdoors (both recreationally and socially) is full of people as soon as the weather permits it.

And this continues well into mid summer but with somewhat less fervour. Still lots of people doing stuff outside.

Then in late summer even here I notice that the novelty of summer starts to wear a bit thin in mid-August. Not sure if it is because people are busy with back to school and other stuff or if they are a bit tired of the hot muggy weather (August is often like this at least in S ON and S QC.) But definitely there is a difference between June/July and August. In June and July, pools are always in use, my neighbours are all having dinner outdoors, whereas in August it is much quieter outside. There is still activity, but you can tell it is winding down.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Isn't that the Manitoba Maple that lio is always talking about?

No, not at all! I don't think it's an actual tree - looks a lot like a lilac to me. You should see it flowering eventually.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

2. Crossing the fine line from pleasant to drab in late September - earlier than in other parts of the country. October is definitively worse in BC than it is in southern Ontario and points east. That's because the eastern half of the continent has a seasonal lag in spring but that also leads to a warmer, more pleasant Fall. In Southern Ontario I think this may be moderated to some extent by the Great Lakes dissipating heat, although I'm not sure.

The lack of day-to-day variation also means there is less likelihood of getting a really nice one-off or string of good days during the off season.

Vancouver spring is hands-down much better on average than Halifax spring but I would not be surprised if Halifax has had more nice days to go sit out in the sun so far this year (lower latitude also helps; Halifax is about the same as Salem OR and Toronto is a bit farther south than Eugene OR). In October those can translate into beach days for the slightly hardy.

This is true in winter to a greater degree than people probably realize. Vancouver and Halifax are tied for the number of +10 or greater days in December, but Halifax gets nearly twice as many hours of sunshine, and it is brighter because the sun gets higher in the sky. People will tell me this is a cherry-picked example, but when comparing two places that truly are miles apart climate-wise you can't find any examples like that. Halifax gets slightly more +20 days during the year, even though Vancouver is warmer overall, and the difference in summer is minor. Having lived in both places, the worst weather here is definitely milder but there isn't a lot more good weather. It's nothing like moving to California where the actual summer weather persists for most of the year.

(This makes me wonder how somebody could find Vancouver wonderful but every other city in Canada intolerable.)

[DrJoe]

Hmmm a lilac eh. That would be alright, guess we'll find out. I don't remember it flowering last year though.

Last year we did have a neat mystery plant. Turned out we grew a pumpkin from a discarded jack-o-lantern from the previous years Halloween.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Canada is Spring Fever central with people going a bit crazy after the long winter. Everywhere that is outdoors (both recreationally and socially) is full of people as soon as the weather permits it.

I would say this year is an exception. The weather has been so bad that I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of days I have experienced this craze so far. Patios sure have been quiet this Spring.

[Denscity]

^^^ That mystery plant above has its newer leaves (upper ones) browning. Was that caused by a near frost overnight?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by le calmar

I would say this year is an exception. The weather has been so bad that I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of days I have experienced this craze so far. Patios sure have been quiet this Spring.

True. But as soon as it gets warm, Spring Fever will begin.

[Skygazer]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

4. Just how cold a 2C sunny day in December can be. The maritime humidity really chills you to the bone. By contrast, I imagine a 2C day in a dry, prairie city would be very pleasant. I've certainly enjoyed crisp 2C late autumn days in Southern Ontario.

This is very true, I grew up in Saskatchewan and have spent most of my adult life in Vancouver and there's a big difference in how just-above-freezing and just-below-freezing temperatures feel in the two regions. I've travelled back and forth between the two regions many times over the last decade and it's been remarkably consistent even when accounting for other variables (like wind, sun, etc), to the point where I'm confident it's not just psychological or because I'm used to milder temps on the coast.

Though it should be noted that those sunny cold snaps are usually caused by arctic fronts that are very dry, not humid - I've actually seen relative humidity drop below 20% during cold snaps, which is pretty ridiculous for a location on the Pacific.

On the topic of humidity, can anyone definitively say whether it causes cold temperatures to feel colder? I always assumed it did, as do most people, but I've also heard some very convincing arguments that it does not and that in fact higher humidity makes any temperature, cold or warm, feel warmer than with low humidity. I don't know enough about physics to know any of this stuff, so if anyone does and can provide some input here that would be appreciated.

Originally Posted by someone123

The lack of day-to-day variation also means there is less likelihood of getting a really nice one-off or string of good days during the off season.

On the plus side, it also means unseasonal cold snaps are unlikely (or at least, "unseasonal cold" really just means a couple degrees below average out here in the spring).

Coming from the prairies I really appreciate not having frost or snow in May, or subfreezing days in April... I remember my last year of high school in Saskatoon we had a blizzard in the third week of April! No thanks!

[DrJoe]

Originally Posted by Denscity

^^^ That mystery plant above has its newer leaves (upper ones) browning. Was that caused by a near frost overnight?

Perhaps? We did have a frost advisory a couple days ago but don't think we ever actually got frost.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Skygazer

On the topic of humidity, can anyone definitively say whether it causes cold temperatures to feel colder? I always assumed it did, as do most people, but I've also heard some very convincing arguments that it does not and that in fact higher humidity makes any temperature, cold or warm, feel warmer than with low humidity. I don't know enough about physics to know any of this stuff, so if anyone does and can provide some input here that would be appreciated.

The idea that humidity levels in the air have a big impact on how cold you feel down around the single digits Celsius or colder is a myth.

Environment Canada chief climatologist on record saying it is a myth: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windso...hing-1.1306657

When people talk about humidity they usually mean relative humidity (% of water vapour compared to max at that temperature), but it is the absolute humidity or quantity of water vapour in the air that has an impact on heat transfer. At cold temperatures (~0 C or less), the air cannot hold much water so there is little difference between high and low relative humidity.

It does make a difference if you are wet or if it's sunny vs. cloudy or if it's windy. But in two places where it's calm, overcast, and +2 Celsius you likely won't be able to tell the difference between 30% relative humidity and 90% relative humidity.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Skygazer

Coming from the prairies I really appreciate not having frost or snow in May, or subfreezing days in April... I remember my last year of high school in Saskatoon we had a blizzard in the third week of April! No thanks!

Yes, the flip side is nice, and much easier on plants specifically. That being said the Prairies are the extreme example. Variability goes North > Prairies > Ontario and Quebec > Atlantic > BC.

The Maritimes are prone to clear nights with rapid cooling, particularly in the spring. The warmer areas don't get much snow outside of December-March (never June-September) but it is common to have April days where it can be +10 and sunny then the temperature drops to -5 at night. That really slows down the spring.

Saturday at the Halifax airport is predicted to be sunny and +16 during the day but then only +2 at night. Vancouver never really gets days like that.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by lio45

No, not at all! I don't think it's an actual tree - looks a lot like a lilac to me. You should see it flowering eventually.

It's definitely not a Manitoba maple (no notches on outer edge of leaves). I can see why you'd say lilac, but I've never seen a lilac with brown leaf shoots like that. I have no idea what it might be. If it were in my garden, I'd let it grow for this year to see whether it does anything interesting.

[kwoldtimer]

Spring is here - Ontario asparagus and local fiddleheads at the supermarket today!