HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #8681  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2021, 3:24 PM
montréaliste montréaliste is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Chambly, Quebec
Posts: 1,738
Quote:
Originally Posted by benp View Post
Hospitalizations going up in my county, with 30-40% of the hospital patients fully vaccinated - that number has been steadily climbing. After peaking at over 500 in January, hospitalizations in WNY fell to only 15 by July but are now again over 300. More than half of the patients are under age 64. Last week included the 3rd and 4th highest number of positive test days as any time during the pandemic. Vaccination rate is 73% over age 12, 85% over age 64. County Exec recommended all adults get 2nd booster, as vaccine protection obviously waning over time. CDC came back with same recommendation a couple of days later.

No new mandates, and just this week border rules have changed to allow Canadians to enter and return without a repeat COVID test. Haven't noticed a big influx or Canadians yet, although I wasn't at the Bills game or the malls. At the Sabres-Maple Leafs game last weekend, though, the arena was less than half full of fans, although there were no restrictions on the number allowed it. All those entering had to show proof they had the vaccine, and no masks were required.

Most places at least half the people are wearing masks, and many businesses are mandating their employees to wear masks. Clinics, hospitals, and public transport all require masks. Many businesses do also.

There is an outbreak at my niece/nephew's elementary school, and some grades are having to attend remotely.

For my family in Miami, despite falling numbers, it is still a sh**show. Sister and her husband were both hospitalized a couple of weeks ago, and BIL died of COVID (both had other health issues). Only place they could have caught it was in a doctor's waiting room. The overworked travel nurse tending to my sister in the hospital was spouting government conspiracy nonsense about it being a deliberate plot to get people sick, and per my sister much of the staff neglected following COVID protocols. She is back home now, but a widow.

Sobering, isn’t it?

Are you worried about the mask making you look silly?

Gawd.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8682  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2021, 3:26 PM
10023's Avatar
10023 10023 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 20,150
Quote:
Originally Posted by montréaliste View Post
Sobering, isn’t it?

Are you worried about the mask making you look silly?

Gawd.
It’s not sobering. It’s inevitable.

Enjoy wearing a mask for the rest of your life though.
__________________
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8683  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2021, 3:39 PM
Yuri's Avatar
Yuri Yuri is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,924
EDIT: I got into politics. Sorry.
__________________
São Paulo - Rio de Janeiro - Londrina - Frankfurt

Last edited by Yuri; Nov 22, 2021 at 3:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8684  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2021, 4:20 PM
montréaliste montréaliste is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Chambly, Quebec
Posts: 1,738
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
It’s not sobering. It’s inevitable.

Enjoy wearing a mask for the rest of your life though.
Isn’t that the point, though?

You and I don’t know what the rest of your life means, lengthwise.

But why insist on making simple prophylactic practices seem silly? Does the inevitability of being impacted by a virus mean that the medical profession just let things be? The UK had a pretty quick reversal of policy when the shit hit the fan. Boris had a fairly strong opinion on hoard immunity until his opinion and policy became untenable.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8685  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2021, 4:57 PM
10023's Avatar
10023 10023 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 20,150
Quote:
Originally Posted by montréaliste View Post
Isn’t that the point, though?

You and I don’t know what the rest of your life means, lengthwise.

But why insist on making simple prophylactic practices seem silly? Does the inevitability of being impacted by a virus mean that the medical profession just let things be? The UK had a pretty quick reversal of policy when the shit hit the fan. Boris had a fairly strong opinion on hoard immunity until his opinion and policy became untenable.
The medical profession is there to treat people who get sick. Society doesn’t exist to protect the medical profession from ever needing to treat the sick.

This is no longer a pandemic of a novel virus with no effective treatments. There’s a vaccine that is 95+% effective at preventing death, and there are better procedures and now even effective therapeutics for people who are hospitalized. The need for “Covid measures” is long over.

Your first sentence doesn’t seem to mean anything, and your last point is also irrelevant to the discussion. That was before vaccines. It’s an entirely different paradigm now.
__________________
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8686  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2021, 5:09 PM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is offline
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 28,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
The bold part should be obvious and inevitable as vaccination rates rise. If we could ever achieve 100% vaccination (we will not, but for illustration), then obviously 100% of hospitalized Covid patients would be vaccinated. That doesn’t mean vaccines don’t work, though obviously they don’t work perfectly. Nothing ever will work perfectly, people will always get Covid, and some people will always die of Covid. It’s time to accept that.
Also the hospitalization numbers are typically just whoever was in the hospital and happened to test positive for covid. Not necessarily the number of beds occupied by people who were there because of covid.

Sometimes this distinction probably didn't/doesn't matter but it might be more important now that so many people are vaccinated and are getting back to normal, getting exposed more but experiencing milder illness.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8687  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2021, 5:19 PM
montréaliste montréaliste is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Chambly, Quebec
Posts: 1,738
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
The medical profession is there to treat people who get sick. Society doesn’t exist to protect the medical profession from ever needing to treat the sick.

This is no longer a pandemic of a novel virus with no effective treatments. There’s a vaccine that is 95+% effective at preventing death, and there are better procedures and now even effective therapeutics for people who are hospitalized. The need for “Covid measures” is long over.

Your first sentence doesn’t seem to mean anything, and your last point is also irrelevant to the discussion. That was before vaccines. It’s an entirely different paradigm now.

Lol.

The immunity that Boris claimed for the British was before the advent of vaccines, and therefore little was done to stop the spread until things got really bad, hence the about-face. Then the vaccines needed sufficient time for deployment, I get that. But there is a lot more to this than the need for people to get on with life and normalcy.

Your comment on the medical profession is facile and doesn’t address the fact that your life may hang on their rescuing you in a timely manner, if applicable. You are not as invulnerable as you think.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8688  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2021, 5:25 PM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is offline
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 28,805
People are still arguing about masks etc. but it seems like regulatory issues remain more important.

The Paxlovid trial was terminated early because it is 89% effective at preventing hospitalization and death. But Pfizer is not yet permitted by the FDA to sell it and it may not be approved for weeks. Why not expand the supply to use all of Pfizer's supply and perhaps lower the placebo odds?

Lots of people are elated about vaccination in the 5-11s but there isn't much thought given to why that approval took so long (they did quite a small trial). Couldn't this trial have been run many months ago? It seems you should either believe that (1) the vaccination is not all that desirable in that cohort for one reason or another, or (2) slow approval was a disaster that probably caused a lot of collateral damage.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8689  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 4:56 PM
10023's Avatar
10023 10023 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 20,150
Quote:
Originally Posted by montréaliste View Post
Lol.

The immunity that Boris claimed for the British was before the advent of vaccines, and therefore little was done to stop the spread until things got really bad, hence the about-face. Then the vaccines needed sufficient time for deployment, I get that. But there is a lot more to this than the need for people to get on with life and normalcy.

Your comment on the medical profession is facile and doesn’t address the fact that your life may hang on their rescuing you in a timely manner, if applicable. You are not as invulnerable as you think.
And yet the UK now seems to be in better shape than countries in Europe that are going back into lockdown, partly thanks to vaccines but also partly because so many people have had Covid already. Everyone is going to get it.
__________________
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8690  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 4:58 PM
10023's Avatar
10023 10023 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 20,150
Meanwhile, European governments are losing it. These protests will (and should) grow:

https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/20...-italy-croatia
__________________
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8691  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 5:28 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 20,827
^ I agree
__________________
Loving the flat-6
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8692  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 6:28 PM
sopas ej's Avatar
sopas ej sopas ej is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South Pasadena, California
Posts: 5,364
From Reuters:

Dutch COVID-19 patients transferred to Germany as hospitals struggle

AMSTERDAM, Nov 23 (Reuters) - The Netherlands started transporting COVID-19 patients across the border to Germany on Tuesday to ease pressure on Dutch hospitals, which are scaling back regular care to deal with a surge in coronavirus cases.

A patient was transferred by ambulance from Rotterdam to a hospital in Bochum, some 240 km (150 miles) east, on Tuesday morning, and another would follow later in the day, health authorities said.

The number of COVID-19 patients in Dutch hospitals has swelled to its highest level since May in recent weeks and is expected to increase further as infections jump to record levels.

On Tuesday the country registered some 23,000 new infections in 24 hours. Weekly numbers from the national health institute showed 153,957 new cases were registered in seven days, a 39 percent rise compared to the week before.

On Tuesday 488 of a total 1,050 intensive care beds in the Netherlands were being used for COVID-19 patients. Hospitals were already scaling back other procedures including cancer treatments and heart operations, to make room. read more

The Dutch health authority (NZA) on Tuesday said almost a third of all operating theatres in the Netherlands had been closed to limit the use of intensive care beds.

Deadlines for critical operations can't be met in about a fifth of all Dutch hospitals, the NZA said.

German hospitals in total have offered 20 beds for patients from the Netherlands, after treating dozens during previous waves of the pandemic.

Plans by the Dutch government to impose further curbs to contain the virus prompted three nights of rioting starting on Friday and more than 170 arrests in cities cross the country. read more

Plans include limiting access to many public places to people who have been vaccinated or have recently recovered from COVID-19. It remains unclear whether the government will find a majority to enact the rules into law.

Reporting by Bart Meijer and Stephanie van den Berg ; Editing by Nick Macfie, Peter Graff and Raissa Kasolowsky

Link: https://www.reuters.com/business/hea...le-2021-11-23/
__________________
"I guess the only time people think about injustice is when it happens to them."

~ Charles Bukowski
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8693  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 7:47 PM
photoLith's Avatar
photoLith photoLith is offline
Ex Houstonian
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Dahn On Main Street
Posts: 14,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Meanwhile, European governments are losing it. These protests will (and should) grow:

https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/20...-italy-croatia
Thats absolutely nuts. So stupid and dystopian that governments are still shutting everything down now.
__________________
Stephen A. Douglas was a great debater but Abraham Lincoln was the great emancipator.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8694  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 10:18 PM
10023's Avatar
10023 10023 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 20,150
My sister is a neurologist, her husband is also a doctor. They are now elsewhere in Germany but previously both were at a hospital in northwest Germany. Patients routinely travelled across the Dutch border for specialist care (which one could certainly argue Covid treatment is).
__________________
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov

Last edited by 10023; Nov 24, 2021 at 10:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8695  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 10:38 PM
10023's Avatar
10023 10023 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 20,150
This is a sensible take:

https://apple.news/ASzxPdudKS6y3aKRk_NXU1w


Needless to say it’s what I’ve been arguing for well over a year - these are political decisions, guided by expertise in multiple fields, and it’s not for the medical advisers to determine policy. It’s also been blatantly obvious since before the first lockdowns that Covid would never have a discrete end. The public will decide when it’s over, because they won’t care anymore, and they’ve done that.
__________________
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8696  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 11:06 PM
bnk's Avatar
bnk bnk is offline
પટેલ. કે ન
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: chicagoland
Posts: 11,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoLith View Post
Thats absolutely nuts. So stupid and dystopian that governments are still shutting everything down now.
Yes its fucked up, we are almost 2 years into this and its even more crazy in AU/NZ the EU is. What's the endpoint here?

https://thehill.com/policy/internati...er-five-months

https://rairfoundation.com/australia...e-camps-video/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8697  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2021, 4:59 AM
SlidellWx's Avatar
SlidellWx SlidellWx is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 1,483
I'm shocked at the low number of ICU beds in total for a country the size of the Netherlands (population 17.5 million). Louisiana (population 4.6 million) has nearly 1600 ICU beds in the state. Nearly 1200 of those are in use (with COVID patients making up about 10% of that total). How can a country 4x the size of Louisiana only have 1,050 ICU beds? No wonder the health system is overwhelmed so easily in Europe since capacity is so low to start with.

Also, these lockdowns serve no purpose now. Those who are not vaccinated will simply get immunity the hard way by getting sick with COVID. The good news is the Delta wave washes over the unvaccinated population very quickly, and this should be all be over for those countries in a couple of months. See the UK or southeastern United States for examples. If some unvaccinated idiots die, so be it at this point.
__________________
Slidell, LA...The Camellia City
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8698  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2021, 8:51 AM
10023's Avatar
10023 10023 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Posts: 20,150
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlidellWx View Post
I'm shocked at the low number of ICU beds in total for a country the size of the Netherlands (population 17.5 million). Louisiana (population 4.6 million) has nearly 1600 ICU beds in the state. Nearly 1200 of those are in use (with COVID patients making up about 10% of that total). How can a country 4x the size of Louisiana only have 1,050 ICU beds? No wonder the health system is overwhelmed so easily in Europe since capacity is so low to start with.

Also, these lockdowns serve no purpose now. Those who are not vaccinated will simply get immunity the hard way by getting sick with COVID. The good news is the Delta wave washes over the unvaccinated population very quickly, and this should be all be over for those countries in a couple of months. See the UK or southeastern United States for examples. If some unvaccinated idiots die, so be it at this point.
Public healthcare. It’s better in Germany or France than in the UK, but supply constraints and lack of competition are a fact of life.

I’ve been waiting for an ultrasound of my foot for 3 months and might get it done in January. I could pay £800 or thereabouts and get it done privately next week, but I’m trying to get some value out of the NHS. They are useless though.
__________________
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." - Isaac Asimov
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8699  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2021, 3:40 PM
sopas ej's Avatar
sopas ej sopas ej is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South Pasadena, California
Posts: 5,364
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Public healthcare. It’s better in Germany or France than in the UK, but supply constraints and lack of competition are a fact of life.
My understanding of healthcare in the Netherlands is that they have "universal healthcare," but it's been mostly privatized, and all their insurance companies are non-profit? I have to do more reading up on it... my Dutch friend explained it to me a few years ago, but I might ask him about it again. Or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
I’ve been waiting for an ultrasound of my foot for 3 months and might get it done in January. I could pay £800 or thereabouts and get it done privately next week...
So... why not just do it?
__________________
"I guess the only time people think about injustice is when it happens to them."

~ Charles Bukowski
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8700  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2021, 5:24 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago region
Posts: 20,827
^ That’s obvious

If you are already paying hefty taxes for so called health care, why shell out £800 for an ultrasound?

By the way, that much money for an ultrasound of the foot is insane. Pure price gouging
__________________
Loving the flat-6
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:41 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.