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  #1681  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2021, 4:14 PM
DCReid DCReid is offline
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And to think Tower Verre was send back to the drawing boards and "cut" 200 feet from 1,200+ to 1,000+ FT because it was too close, 20 blocks away, to the Empire State Building.

So this 1,200 ft Lord Foster piece of trash will go up a block away.

Not against development at the Hotel Penn site, just want an epic NYC tower like 175 Park.. not this crap.
Tower Verre was supposedly chopped because it was mid block and because the planning chair at the time criticized the top design at the time, calling it unfinished and unworthy of sharing the sky with the ESB (or something like that). I certainly did not agree with that decision.

Last edited by DCReid; Nov 16, 2021 at 4:15 PM. Reason: edit
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  #1682  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2021, 8:15 PM
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Tower Verre was supposedly chopped because it was mid block and because the planning chair at the time criticized the top design at the time, calling it unfinished and unworthy of sharing the sky with the ESB (or something like that). I certainly did not agree with that decision.
They called it unfinished, and yet, sent the architect back to the drawing board to design essentially the same building - they also locked the design in place. The two arguments didn’t make sense. 432 Park is exactly what the city needed.
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  #1683  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2021, 8:17 PM
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I think that Verre's proportions are perfect. I wouldn't have wanted it taller. I'm all for height, and I'll be disappointed if 175 Park is less than 1,600' tall. Verre, however, is perfect as is.
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  #1684  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2021, 2:40 AM
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I think that Verre's proportions are perfect. I wouldn't have wanted it taller. I'm all for height, and I'll be disappointed if 175 Park is less than 1,600' tall. Verre, however, is perfect as is.
Verre was perfect in either version. But that' besides the point. There was nothing "unworthy" of that extra 200 ft.
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  #1685  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2021, 2:50 PM
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Verre was perfect in either version. But that' besides the point. There was nothing "unworthy" of that extra 200 ft.
Agree, Tower Verre is still beautiful at 1,000+ Ft.. but the extra 200 ft height would've given it a much bigger impact on the skyline.. which it rightfully deserved!
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  #1686  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2021, 5:29 PM
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And to think Tower Verre was send back to the drawing boards and "cut" 200 feet from 1,200+ to 1,000+ FT because it was too close, 20 blocks away, to the Empire State Building.
No. Tower Verre was asking for a variance from existing zoning. That variance was denied, and they were only given a height up to 1,050 ft. It was a very dumb decision, but a totally different scenario, because they were asking for an exemption from existing rules.

In NYC, when a developer asks for an exemption from zoning rules, in a wealthy area, NIMBYism is gonna be in play, almost always.
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  #1687  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 4:24 AM
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  #1688  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Verre was perfect in either version. But that' besides the point. There was nothing "unworthy" of that extra 200 ft.
I think the biggest crutch with Verre is its location. It truly is an exquisite tower but knowing what we know now and how it stands, for the sake of aesthetics, if it was possibly in a better location, it wouldn't be drowned out as much.

Something like Verre, in a fantasy world, would of looked great with its South profile facing Central park in the Northern direction, like actually on Central Park South (59th Street).

Something those extra 200 ft would of aided, to make it more pronounced. Eh, I guess its what happens in NYC, gems become drowned out in the jungle.
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  #1689  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 10:13 PM
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No. Tower Verre was asking for a variance from existing zoning. That variance was denied, and they were only given a height up to 1,050 ft. It was a very dumb decision, but a totally different scenario, because they were asking for an exemption from existing rules.

In NYC, when a developer asks for an exemption from zoning rules, in a wealthy area, NIMBYism is gonna be in play, almost always.
Reminds me of the 200 Amsterdam story. They claimed the skyscraper was illegal with its zoning lots and all that BS with the partial tax lots, so what did the developer do? They continued building! And very fast. They said f**k that sh*t and completed the tower. The N.Y. Court of Appeals did right in that ruling and by the time the ruling was made, it was already topped out, interior work at breakneck speed and in the stages of being ready for occupancy.

That might be akin to a Stephen King novel that NIMBYS read to their children. Warms our hearts. The Story of the Big Bad 200 Amsterdam.

But yeah, these odd balls wanted them to shave 20 stories off the tower. Some wanted it demolished entirely.
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  #1690  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by chris08876 View Post
I think the biggest crutch with Verre is its location. It truly is an exquisite tower but knowing what we know now and how it stands, for the sake of aesthetics, if it was possibly in a better location, it wouldn't be drowned out as much.

Something like Verre, in a fantasy world, would of looked great with its South profile facing Central park in the Northern direction, like actually on Central Park South (59th Street).

Something those extra 200 ft would of aided, to make it more pronounced. Eh, I guess its what happens in NYC, gems become drowned out in the jungle.
Yes, I think the biggest complaint that led to the 200 ft chop was it was midblock. It's too bad it was not built in more prominent location to show its full beauty. I sort of feel that the Chrysler building is unfortunately now in a similar predicament - (and I still support the new proposed towers nearby).
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  #1691  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DCReid View Post
Yes, I think the biggest complaint that led to the 200 ft chop was it was midblock. It's too bad it was not built in more prominent location to show its full beauty. I sort of feel that the Chrysler building is unfortunately now in a similar predicament - (and I still support the new proposed towers nearby).
No, the biggest complaint was that the top was unfinished, and unworthy of the same airspace as the Empire State. The tower isn’t midblock at all, though that was a complaint. A tower of 1,050 ft midbock isn’t much different than one of 1,250 ft. But what was different was the height as compared to the ESB.
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  #1692  
Old Posted Nov 24, 2021, 11:50 PM
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No, the biggest complaint was that the top was unfinished, and unworthy of the same airspace as the Empire State. The tower isn’t midblock at all, though that was a complaint. A tower of 1,050 ft midbock isn’t much different than one of 1,250 ft. But what was different was the height as compared to the ESB.
Oh the precious fucking ESB, however will it survive.
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  #1693  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2021, 12:51 AM
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Until it got its antenna the ESB was never all that special IMO, not compared to all the other proposals of the time. The antenna makes it.
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  #1694  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2021, 12:58 AM
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Until it got its antenna the ESB was never all that special IMO, not compared to all the other proposals of the time. The antenna makes it.
There was one proposal that I think would have been a rival to the ESB (besides Chrysler), I forget it's name but it was going to be huge. But got killed during the depression.
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  #1695  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2021, 1:10 AM
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Until it got its antenna the ESB was never all that special IMO, not compared to all the other proposals of the time. The antenna makes it.
The transmission antenna built in 1950? I imagine it was an icon even before then.
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  #1696  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2021, 1:27 AM
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Fucking trees again

Let’s make our tower greeeeen
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  #1697  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2021, 4:59 AM
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There was one proposal that I think would have been a rival to the ESB (besides Chrysler), I forget it's name but it was going to be huge. But got killed during the depression.
I think you are referring to the Metropolitan Life tower.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?v...t=0&ajaxserp=0
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  #1698  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2021, 6:15 AM
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I think you are referring to the Metropolitan Life tower.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?v...t=0&ajaxserp=0
Yes that's the one. The base is still there, could always be finished one of these days. Though I'd prefer they extend it to be a megatall. Wishful thinking lol.
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  #1699  
Old Posted Nov 27, 2021, 2:54 PM
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Larkin Building?


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  #1700  
Old Posted Yesterday, 4:51 AM
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Looks like the lobby has been reworked...






























Older look....








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