Quote:
Originally Posted by homebucket
The Ram TRX weighs 6400 lbs.
It seems like you're just surprised that cars in general weigh a lot. The Corolla today weighs about the same as a Camry from two decades ago. Cars are just heavier now. It's not EV specific.
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No, I've been bothered for well over a decade about how heavy vehicles have become. A mid sized sedan now weighs the same or more than a luxo barge from the 1970s.
I don't have the motivation or time to do a detailed model-to-model comparison, including external dimensions and interior space, but my impression is that in general similar sized/marketed EVs are heavier than the equivalent IC vehicle. For example the RAM TRX you cited is 15.8 inches (40 cm) longer and 8.7 inches (22 cm) wider than a Rivian R1T, so it's not completely an apples to apples comparison.
Others in this thread seem to agree that EVs are heavier in general with estimates like a couple hundred pounds more or statements that the added weight will not damage the roads (indicating that they are heavier), which are fair comments but not really precise comparison data.
I have a problem with vehicles in general becoming large heavy pigs with all the advancements in technology being taken up hauling larger, heavier vehicles around. As others have mentioned, we're in a climate crisis - an emergency, which one would think should require drastic action. Well, maybe that drastic action should include mandating maximum length/width/height/mass requirements for all passenger vehicles. Why are we totally revamping the car as we know it, with government mandates to ensure that it happens, but we are totally OK with continuing on with pickup trucks, SUVs, and cars that are much larger and thus heavier than they need to be?
It can be reasoned that some of the weight increase over the years is due to more electronics being in current vehicles and weight added because of safety requirements (air bags, bodies designed to meet crash test requirements, etc.). However some of that weight increase was countered by using high strength steels and/or composite materials and metals which are lighter (i.e. higher strength to weight ratio) than steel. The fact remains that vehicle size is the main reason, and changing market segments whereby the vast majority of vehicles sold are large and heavy (example: many automakers have all but discontinued marketing small sedans, replacing them with larger/heavier car-like SUVs and 'crossovers' - not to mention that huge pickup trucks are now at or near the top of sales data for the US and Canada).
My comments/disappointments occur when I ask myself why we are apparently OK with settling for EVs to just be twice as efficient as ICs (or whatever the direct comparison numbers would be)... why shouldn't we be shooting for three times as energy efficient? Or 20 times? Get the size and weight down and really make a difference for climate change.
I already know the answers that will follow:
- The market demands large heavy vehicles and people won't be inclined to buy EVs if they aren't comparable to the large heavy pigs that IC vehicles have become.
- The government is already doing enough in mandating manufacturers to stop producing IC vehicles by 2040 - mandating size would make them unpopular and they would get voted out.
- EVs are already way more efficient than IC vehicles, so you're just trying to create an argument to make them look bad because you're a luddite or some sort of oil industry booster, etc.
- But... the batteries (hint: smaller lighter vehicles require less battery power to achieve an equivalent range).
- Etc.
So... what's the point of discussing it? If you bring up any point here that isn't gushing over EVs you get accused of being ignorant or stupid, or at the very least are treated like you don't know anything or have no experience - or more commonly that you have some kind of agenda to disprove the greatness of EVs.
I wouldn't even try to discuss other EV-related topics, such as the well-known issue of how difficult it is to extinguish EV fires, because it would only be answered with 'whattabout gasoline?'.
I do understand the enthusiasm - I too am enthusiastic - but any and every new technology comes with other effects that may or may not be positive. However, the discussion here is seems to be more echo-chamber-ish than anything else.
I already have seen numerous other debate points to any comments I have made, and frankly I don't want to spend the time or energy to read them or answer them. Probably will do the same to whatever debate points or character comments that this post draws. The pile-on has been enough to dampen my enthusiasm about this thread, which is no longer even about 'lamenting the decline of the car'... perhaps it should be renamed 'EV discussion' or whatever.
Anyhow, thanks for reading. I'm done for now.